God wanted man to fall

[SuperCow]

Its a Theological position my friend.

never said that.

If by definition he pre-knew Adam’s sin, then he pre-knew the rest of history.

That wasn't about Adam and Eve, he didn't regretted they existence until the times of Noah lemme ask you why didn't God regretted Adam and Eves existence?

The same reason that you don’t regret having kids the first time they do something wrong. You expect them to learn from their mistakes and do better. Man wasn’t learning. They were getting worse every generation.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

As we know God was very must aware of Adam and Eves existence before they existence. He also knew that they would disobey him, How do we know that? The answer is, is God is infinite in knowledge so we understand that he wanted Adam and Eve to sin for a bigger picture. Whats the bigger picture Theosis!!!!! Adam and Eve were corruptible but perfect before they fall from Gods Grace, so The Son came as a servant to make us as him not corruptible, all this to defeat Satan. Is why God wanted Adam and Eve to fall.

If you believe The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE, then Jesus Christ of Nazareth was already present in Eden walking with Adam and Eve who emdodied The Holy Spirit until the fall. To claim that God wanted man to fall so that He could reveal Himself as the Messiah is quite short sighted, He was already there. We lost Him in the fall by our own doing. Not something God planned but rather, something that derived from free will.

 

[renniks]

Than what we disagree on if its the theology that God wanted his creation above sin in all ways is why he planned the fall than I dont see what we disagree on.

This is all dangerously close to arguing we should go sin so God can extend more grace to us.

 

[o_mlly]

Is why God wanted Adam and Eve to fall.

You want your child to join you upstairs. You know that in learning to climb the stairs, the child will fall a few times. But you love the child so much that you'll go downstairs to him and show him how to climb.

 

[Palmfever]

No, He did not. He knew that given the choice of raw broccoli or a snickers bar, most children would munch snickers every morning. He knew and was prepared. He is a much better parent than you or I and guides His children in love not floggings and chains. He does not set us up to fall, it is a necessary component of 'Free Will.'

 

[dóxatotheó]

No, He did not. He knew that given the choice of raw broccoli or a snickers bar, most children would munch snickers every morning. He knew and was prepared. He is a much better parent than you or I and guides His children in love not floggings and chains. He does not set us up to fall, it is a necessary component of 'Free Will.'

Yall read one part of the thread and just ignore the rest I am not saying he cause the act I said he wanted the act to occur in his permissible will.

 

[Palmfever]

Than what we disagree on if its the theology that God wanted his creation above sin in all ways is why he planned the fall than I dont see what we disagree on.

Foreknowledge isn't the same as setting a trap.
1 Cor, 10:13. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

James, 1:13. When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

We make our choices.

 

[dóxatotheó]

To claim that God wanted man to fall so that He could reveal Himself as the Messiah is quite short sighted

I didnt say that? You ignored the entirety of the OP

We lost Him in the fall by our own doing. Not something God planned but rather, something that derived from free will.

God isnt ignorant on any act the reason God didnt intervene with Adam and Eve act when he knew they would do that is more than just free will.

This is all dangerously close to arguing we should go sin so God can extend more grace to us.

Very disingenuous

If by definition they pre-knew Adam’s sin, then he pre-knew the rest of history.

Yeah and he does is there a problem with that?

The same reason that you don’t regret having kids the first time they do something wrong. You expect them to learn from their mistakes and do better. Man wasn’t learning. They were getting worse every generation.

Hmm this position seems to insinuate that one sin is greater than others even though the first sin led to others.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Foreknowledge isn't the same as setting a trap.
1 Cor, 10:13. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

James, 1:13. When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

We make our choices.

I know I dont affirm determinism nor did I argue he caused the acts, we have free will to do the acts but God lets these acts occur for a bigger picture, which is Theosis. Yall disagree with my OP but not seeming to understand what I mean.

 

[Palmfever]

Yall read one part of the thread and just ignore the rest I am not saying he cause the act I said he wanted the act to occur in his permissible will.

And here is why this statement is wrong. "he wanted the act to occur."

 

[Palmfever]

I know I dont affirm determinism nor did I argue he caused the acts, we have free will to do the acts but God lets these acts occur for a bigger picture, which is Theosis. Yall disagree with my OP but not seeming to understand what I mean.

This is more accurate. "God lets these acts occur." on this we agree. Which was probably your original intent.

 

[dóxatotheó]

I would disagree ...

God created all His intelligent beings with freewill (including lucifer and the 1/3) .... without freewill love is not possible. God knew the risk involved .... but His creatures make their own choices. No God didn't want any of them to fall .... but knew they would CHOOSE to. All have/had choices .... and each are responsible for their choices. Unless one has choice .... there is not love nor freedom (the ability to act or change without constraint)

This position makes it seem God wanted them to sin, and didnt want them to choose him over themselves this view makes God impotent of course all are created with free acts but no we are not submitted to our own wills in Gods grace that lacks sense.

God can/could zap satan at anytime .... and it's not just about us .... others in the universe besides us.

Interesting he could and my views on extraterrestrial life is maybe.

 

[dóxatotheó]

And here is why this statement is wrong. "he wanted the act to occur."

If he didn't want the act to occur who could have stopped it God hates sin and isn't impotent so he would stop the act but he didn't and dont say ¨we have free will¨ cause that doesn't answer the question. I believe God doesn't agree with the act but wanted it to occur with his will for a bigger picture which is being incorruptible as him which is why the Messiah was sent.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I didnt say that? You ignored the entirety of the OP

God isnt ignorant on any act the reason God didnt intervene with Adam and Eve act when he knew they would do that is more than just free will.
Very disingenuous

Yeah and he does is there a problem with that?

Hmm this position seems to insinuate that one sin is greater than others even though the first sin led to others.

Well first this is the title of the post-second you reaffirm the title by stating the same conclusion at the end of your post. So I am not really sure what you are trying to say here if it is not to say.....
"God wanted man to fall"

 

[dóxatotheó]

Well first this is the title of the post-second you reaffirm the title by stating the same conclusion at the end of your post. So I am not really sure what you are trying to say here if it is not to say.....
"God wanted man to fall"

Yeah he didnt want the outcome to change aka meaning he wanted them to fall

 

[Bob_1000]

As we know God was very must aware of Adam and Eves existence before they existence. He also knew that they would disobey him, How do we know that? The answer is, is God is infinite in knowledge so we understand that he wanted Adam and Eve to sin for a bigger picture. Whats the bigger picture Theosis!!!!! Adam and Eve were corruptible but perfect before they fall from Gods Grace, so The Son came as a servant to make us as him not corruptible, all this to defeat Satan. Is why God wanted Adam and Eve to fall.

I pretty much agree with this. I believe God created us to fall because all God wants us to do is recognize our position and ask him to save us from it.

 

[prodromos]

As we know God was very must aware of Adam and Eves existence before they existence. He also knew that they would disobey him, How do we know that? The answer is, is God is infinite in knowledge so we understand that he wanted Adam and Eve to sin for a bigger picture. Whats the bigger picture Theosis!!!!! Adam and Eve were corruptible but perfect before they fall from Gods Grace, so The Son came as a servant to make us as him not corruptible, all this to defeat Satan. Is why God wanted Adam and Eve to fall.

No. Foreknowledge of the fall does not imply it was God's will for it to happen. Christ was always going to become Man in order to unite us to Him. It could have happened without the fall, it just means He would not have had to die since death would not have been a condition of our flesh in need of healing.

 

[renniks]

If he didn't want the act to occur who could have stopped it God hates sin and isn't impotent so he would stop the act but he didn't and dont say ¨we have free will¨ cause that doesn't answer the question. I believe God doesn't agree with the act but wanted it to occur with his will for a bigger picture which is being incorruptible as him which is why the Messiah was sent.

Sooo do you apply the same logic to all sins?
Because seems like you would have to.
God "wanted" his people to stray so he could send Christ to be killed by them?

 

[dóxatotheó]

No. Foreknowledge of the fall does not imply it was God's will for it to happen. Christ was always going to become Man in order to unite us to Him. It could have happened without the fall, it just means He would not have had to die since death would not have been a condition of our flesh in need of healing.

explain further

 

[dóxatotheó]

Sooo do you apply the same logic to all sins?

permissible will is the orthodox position on this.

od "wanted" his people to stray so he could send Christ to be killed by them?

Adam and Eve are more than just sinners they were in Gods grace not as perfect as him so they fall because of it. Jesus came so we can be as him