MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

[klutedavid]

Revelation Revelation 18:11-13 is not talking about the cargo of the Roman Catholic Church. It is talking about "their cargoes" meaning the cargoes of the kings of the earth. My claims are supported by the scriptures. As posted through this thread already and letting the scripture interpret itself a "woman" in bible prophecy represents a pure Church (dressed in white) or an apostate church (harlot dressed in scarlet).

Take care.

That is not correct. The cargo belongs to the great city, the woman, Babylon.

Romans 18:9-11
And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’ And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes.

That great city no longer buys the cargo of the merchants. There is no doubt that the cargo was bought and sold by that great city.

‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city!

Revelation 18:16-19
Saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls; for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance, and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’ And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth.'

The Vatican does not import or export.

The Vatican is not set on seven hills.

The Vatican did not exist when John wrote his letter but that great city, Rome, Babylon, existed.

The Vatican began in 1929 and the merchants made nothing out of the Vatican.

 

[Valletta]

No I have only provided the bible but I appreciate you sharing your view. See post 429 linked

Oops, answered the wrong person.

 

[Valletta]

No one said that the Vatican is one of the seven hills. Please see post 429 linked
It is the Popes city of the Roman Catholic Church within Rome.

God bless.

As I said, the Vatican is outside of the ancient walls of Rome. You have to cross the Tiber river to get there.

 

[Valletta]

I think there is a reason for "Roman" being part of the self described term Roman Catholic Church.

I haven't listen to any Catholic videos lately, but on the occasions I have, Raymond Arroyo EWTN referred to the Vatican as "Rome".

Douggg, you are getting away from the Bible but if you are interested my church is the Catholic Church, a term probably coined around the end of the first century which means "universal." Our most common liturgical rite is the "Latin" or "Roman" rite. There are seven rites in the Catholic Church, and it is much preferred to got to a mass using the same liturgical rite.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As I said, the Vatican is outside of the ancient walls of Rome. You have to cross the Tiber river to get there.

As posted earlier the Vatican city is a part of Rome but even before this the Lateran Palace inside Rome itself was where the Roman Catholic Church papacy administration began and is still carried out there today as well as the Vatican.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That is not correct. The cargo belongs to the great city, the woman, Babylon.

Romans 18:9-11
And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’ And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes.

That great city no longer buys the cargo of the merchants. There is no doubt that the cargo was bought and sold by that great city.

‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city!

Revelation 18:16-19
Saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls; for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance, and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’ And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth.'

The Vatican does not import or export.

The Vatican is not set on seven hills.

The Vatican did not exist when John wrote his letter but that great city, Rome, Babylon, existed.

The Vatican began in 1929 and the merchants made nothing out of the Vatican.

For me I do not see that in the scriptures David. The way I read it is that Revelation 18:11-13 is not talking about the cargo of the Roman Catholic Church. It is talking about the cargoes of "the merchants of the earth weeping over her" and "their cargoes" meaning the cargoes of the merchants that are weeping over her. "The merchants" and their cargoes" is plural use so cannot be talking about Babylon which is singular in the Greek. As posted through this thread already and letting the scripture interpret itself a "woman" in bible prophecy represents a pure Church (dressed in white) or an apostate church (harlot dressed in scarlet).

Take care.

 

[Valletta]

As posted earlier the Vatican city is a part of Rome but even before this the Lateran Palace inside Rome itself was where the Roman Catholic Church papacy administration began and is still carried out there today as well as the Vatican.

It's the "Catholic Church" and the Vatican is not part of the city of Rome--it is actually a separate country, as has been posted. If you are going to discuss my Church please use the correct name. It was the Catholic Church that chose the 73 books of the Bible, no Catholic Church, no Bible.As per the Bible, Jesus gave authority to His Church. As by the authority of the Church, for example, the day Christians worship was switched to Sunday.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's the "Catholic Church" and the Vatican is not part of the city of Rome--it is actually a separate country, as has been posted. If you are going to discuss my Church please use the correct name. It was the Catholic Church that chose the 73 books of the Bible, no Catholic Church, no Bible.As per the Bible, Jesus gave authority to His Church. As by the authority of the Church, for example, the day Christians worship was switched to Sunday.

See post # 445 linked, the Vatican is an enclave of Rome that did not become independent of Rome until 1929 under the Lateran treaty. The Roman Catholic Church before the Vatican city agreement had its origins in the Lateran Palace inside Rome itself. This was where the Roman Catholic Church papacy administration began and is still carried out there today as well as Vatican city. The Church has no authority over the bible to change God's Word or the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments to change Gods' law although this was prophesied in Daniel 7:25.

 

[Danthemailman]

That is not correct. The cargo belongs to the great city, the woman, Babylon.

The Vatican does not import or export.

The Vatican is not set on seven hills.

The Vatican did not exist when John wrote his letter but that great city, Rome, Babylon, existed.

The Vatican began in 1929 and the merchants made nothing out of the Vatican.

The SDA church uses the Roman Catholic church as their 'boogie man' in order to fit their narrative that the papacy transferred Sabbath observance to Sunday and that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Mark of the Beast

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The SDA church uses the Roman Catholic church as their 'boogie man' in order to fit their narrative that the papacy transferred Sabbath observance to Sunday and that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Mark of the Beast

Please do not make things up Dan. If you want to have a friendly discussion your welcome to join us. Let's talk scripture please and let's not spread misinformation here. Your word of website is not the Word of God but misinformation. If you wish to discuss anything from the scriptures I am happy to talk scripture with you here. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[klutedavid]

It's the "Catholic Church" and the Vatican is not part of the city of Rome--it is actually a separate country, as has been posted. If you are going to discuss my Church please use the correct name. It was the Catholic Church that chose the 73 books of the Bible, no Catholic Church, no Bible.As per the Bible, Jesus gave authority to His Church. As by the authority of the Church, for example, the day Christians worship was switched to Sunday.

You are correct Valletta.

The Vulgate is a late-4th-century Latin translation of the Bible (wiki)

At least the Vulgate used the Septuagint version of the Old Testament. Unlike the Protestant Bibles that use the Masoretic version of the Old Testament.

During the rise of Christianity in the 1st century CE, new scriptures were written in Greek about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, who Christians believed was the messiah prophesized in the books of the Hebrew Bible. Two collections of these new scriptures – the Pauline epistles and the Gospels – were accepted as canon by the end of the 2nd century CE. A third collection, the catholic epistles, were canonized over the next few centuries. Christians called these new scriptures the "New Testament", and began referring to the Septuagint as the "Old Testament".[22]
(wiki)

I think that the early Christian, Gentile churches, never changed from Saturday to Sunday. The earliest church letters indicate that the Sunday gathering to break the bread. Has always been the day the the Gentile Christians gathered. So I would strongly oppose anyone who claimed that any Christian church, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.

 

[jgr]

It's the "Catholic Church" and the Vatican is not part of the city of Rome--it is actually a separate country, as has been posted. If you are going to discuss my Church please use the correct name. It was the Catholic Church that chose the 73 books of the Bible, no Catholic Church, no Bible.As per the Bible, Jesus gave authority to His Church. As by the authority of the Church, for example, the day Christians worship was switched to Sunday.

The word "catholic" means "universal". It originated not as a proper adjective "Catholic", but as a common adjective "catholic". It was never intended to be arrogated by any group attempting to impose or claim a monopoly on Christian faith and practice. Thus the catholic Church is fully described, not as the "Catholic Church", but as the "Christian Church", encompassing all who are in Christ irrespective of any affiliations, in accordance with and fulfillment of such Scriptures as:

Romans 12:5
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Over the medieval centuries, the Catholic Church fell into apostasy. It was the Christian Church which remained true to the true faith, and which God preserved and ultimately inspired and empowered through the Reformation to reclaim and revive His truth.

The spiritual blessings and benefits which we enjoy today came through the Christian Church.

 

[Valletta]

The word "catholic" means "universal". It originated not as a proper adjective "Catholic", but as a common adjective "catholic". It was never intended to be arrogated by any group attempting to impose or claim a monopoly on Christian faith and practice. Thus the catholic Church is fully described, not as the "Catholic Church", but as the "Christian Church", encompassing all who are in Christ irrespective of any affiliations, in accordance with and fulfillment of such Scriptures as:

You were there? Take a look at documents for yourself from the early centuries,, such as one by Irenaeus called Against Heresies which was written around 180 A.D.:

"while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said."
Saint Cyril of Jerusalem said the following around 350 A.D.:

1. But since the word Ecclesia is applied to different things (as also it is written of the multitude in the theatre of the Ephesians, And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the Assembly Acts 19:14), and since one might properly and truly say that there is a Church of evil doers, I mean the meetings of the heretics, the Marcionists and Manichees, and the rest, for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to you now the Article, And in one Holy Catholic Church; that you may avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which you were regenerated.

The Bible tells us when the word "Christian" was first used, that was the name the pagans used for followers of Christ. Did whoever told you about this Medieval "Christian Church" ever show you historical documentation about this supposed true church, who the members were, what they said, etc?

 

[Marilyn C]

Hello all this is a thread for sharing scriptures on MARK OF THE BEAST.

WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST CLICK ME?

There is a simple study from God's WORD * DANIEL AND REVELATION and history here beastsmark.com for those who may be interested in the scriptures and some more detail.

God's WORD teaches that GOD'S PEOPLE ARE IN EVERY CHURCH! Theye are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD as much as God has revealed to them. *JOHN 10:16; ACT 17:30-31.

I would like to discuss the following scriptures here in this OP.

REVELATION 14:6-12
[6], And I saw another angel fly in midheaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...............

Q10. WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WHEN DO PEOPLE RECEIVE IT?


FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION AND SCRIPTURE ONLY PLEASE.

God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Hi LGW,

The Mark of the Beast in more detail - ``And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.` (Rev. 13: 16 & 17)

So we see the Mark is related to buying and selling and that everyone will have it who wants to be in the Global Economy. Thus the World will have brought together all the nations finances and institutions to be able to have control over them. This is coming together now through the central banks digital currencies & finally connected to the IMF, (International Monetary Fund).

THE MARK – Gk. `charagma,` a distinguishing sign as a badge of servitude.

This I see as a chip implanted under the skin with all the details of that person`s life, health, medical, finance, etc. Information of that individual that is presently available on our chips, on our cards or in our phones. Information that separates you from every other person on the planet. Information that is needed to connect you into man`s new order. Then finally it is information that means allegiance to the Global Leader.



THE NAME – Gk. `onoma,` a `name,` (lit. or fig.) authority, character.

This I see as the authority of the world leader. If you desire to `buy or sell` then you will need this authority. Today we need to have all sorts of authority to work in opportunity shops to working with children, to doing business etc. The world system requires their authority for you to transact & do business. The world system believes it has the power & authority to regulate people`s buying & selling.

It will be the authorisation from the IMF, (International Monetary Fund) and will be stored on the chip, (the Mark) also.



THE NUMBER – Gk. `arithmos,` a number, from `airo,` reckoned, accounted, computored.

`Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.` (Rev. 13: 18)

I believe the number of the `beast,` the Global Leader is his numbering system for every person on the planet and stored on the Mark. It will be a number within 6 digits, 6 digits, 6 digits.

 

[Valletta]

See post # 445 linked, the Vatican is an enclave of Rome that did not become independent of Rome until 1929 under the Lateran treaty. The Roman Catholic Church before the Vatican city agreement had its origins in the Lateran Palace inside Rome itself. This was where the Roman Catholic Church papacy administration began and is still carried out there today as well as Vatican city. The Church has no authority over the bible to change God's Word or the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments to change Gods' law although this was prophesied in Daniel 7:25.

The Catholic Church includes the entire Biblical text of the Ten Commandments in the Catholic Catechism.
So it couldn't be the Catholic Church that changed the text, I don't know that much about your beliefs but if it is changed the problem is with your religion. I would be glad to compare and see what your religion may have added or deleted. Do you have a copy I could examine?

 

[jgr]

You were there? Take a look at documents for yourself from the early centuries,, such as one by Irenaeus called Against Heresies which was written around 180 A.D.:

"while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said."
Saint Cyril of Jerusalem said the following around 350 A.D.:

1. But since the word Ecclesia is applied to different things (as also it is written of the multitude in the theatre of the Ephesians, And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the Assembly Acts 19:14), and since one might properly and truly say that there is a Church of evil doers, I mean the meetings of the heretics, the Marcionists and Manichees, and the rest, for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to you now the Article, And in one Holy Catholic Church; that you may avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which you were regenerated.

Did whoever told you about this Medieval "Christian Church" ever show you historical documentation about this supposed true church, who the members were, what they said, etc?

The word "catholic" first appears in the Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans.

"The letter is also the earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "catholic Church". Saint Ignatius, who wrote some 900 years before the Great Schism, uses the term "catholic" to mean the "universal Church"."

The letter was written no later than the 140's AD, decades before "Against Heresies".

The Bible tells us when the word "Christian" was first used, that was the name the pagans used for followers of Christ.

Where in the Bible are we told that? Book, chapter, verse please.

The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Were the disciples pagans?
Peter used the term "Christian" in 1 Peter 4:16. Was Peter a pagan?
Ignatius lived at Antioch. Was Ignatius a pagan?
Do you not identify yourself as Christian because that would make you a pagan?

 

[Valletta]

The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

There you go.
Let me ask again. Did whoever told you about this Medieval "Christian Church" ever show you historical documentation about this supposed true church, who the members were, what they said, etc?

 

[jgr]

There you go.
Let me ask again. Did whoever told you about this Medieval "Christian Church" ever show you historical documentation about this supposed true church, who the members were, what they said, etc?

Awaiting answers to:

The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Were the disciples pagans?
Peter used the term "Christian" in 1 Peter 4:16. Was Peter a pagan?
Ignatius lived at Antioch. Was Ignatius a pagan?
Do you not identify yourself as Christian because that would make you a pagan?

 

[Valletta]

Awaiting answers to:

I simply gave you factual information about the origin of the word. You're a guy who lectures on the supposed usage of the word "Catholic," why such sensitivity to the usage of the word "Christian?"

 

[jgr]

I simply gave you factual information about the origin of the word. You're a guy who lectures on the supposed usage of the word "Catholic," why such sensitivity to the usage of the word "Christian?"

Awaiting answers.