What you need to believe is what Jesus said so clearly. Those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
I do believe Jesus which is why I said I do not believe you. As shown through the scriptures already God's promise that he gives eternal life to that will never perish is to "
believers"
not "
unbelievers" who have departed the faith to return to "
unbelief" and sin *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8. The scriptures provided in
post # 2;
post # 3; and
post # 5;
post # 7;
post # 189 and
post # 199 linked show why I believe your teachings are not biblical or supported in scripture. If you disagree with the scriptures and questions asked you provided in the linked posts here your welcome to show why you disagree from the scriptures and discuss them like I do with your posts. Until then dear friend we will have to agree to disagree.
But you haven't proven anything, other than you know how to abuse the Greek present tense.
Well that depends if one believes scripture or not. As shown earlier from the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8 and over 100+ scriptures provided in
post # 2;
post # 3; and
post # 5;
post # 7;
post # 189 and
post # 199 with the Greek tenses provided in the scriptures you posted God's Word absolutely proves that we can "depart the faith" and lose our salvation which is why we are warned against doing so. You simply saying "
you haven't proven anything" just because you say so, does not make it so because you say so. You have yet to prove why it is not so according to you. If you disagree your welcome to address the scriptures and the Greek tenses that disagree with your teachings and the questions asked of you that you refuse to address or respond to. Until then dear friend we will have to agree to disagree as your not able to prove of show why you disagree with the scriptures that are shared with you.
Are you aware that all believing is in the present tense? When a person believes the gospel, they do so IN THE PRESENT TENSE. No big mystery here.
I posted the tenses to "believe" in the the scriptures you provided showing that the Greek meaning is is "believing" now. If someone departs the faith by rejecting God's Word in order to return to "unbelief and sin are they "believing" Gods' Word or not believing Gods' Word *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8 see also
post # 2;
post # 3; and
post # 5;
post # 7;
post # 189 and
post # 199?
If "following what God's Word says" is a condition for salvation, then NO ONE can be saved. What a theology.
They are Gods' Word dear friend
not my words that say...
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 10:26-27 [26], But you
believe not, because you are
not of my sheep, as I said to you.
[27],
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and
they follow me.
James 2:17, Even so
faith, if it has not works, is
dead, being alone.
Seems the scriptures disagree with you here.
LoveGodsWord said: Jesus does not teach anywhere that we are saved in not believing and following what Gods' Word says.
Your response here...
I never said He did. He says salvation is based on believing in Him. John 3:15, 16, 5:24, 6:40, 6:47, 11:25-27.
Your trying to argue in this thread that we can depart the faith having once believed and return to a life of known unrepentant sin and still be saved. This teachings is unbiblical and not supported in the scriptures as shown in over 100+ scriptures already shared with you from Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8 see also
post # 2;
post # 3; and
post # 5;
post # 7;
post # 189 and
post # 199. You even say in this thread in the previous section of this pose; "
If following what God's Word says" is a condition for salvation, then NO ONE can be saved". These teachings are not biblical as no one believes God or is believing God's Word by not doing what Gods' Word says. James calls this kind of faith the dead faith of devils in James 2:17-26 and Jesus in his own words not mine says "not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
does the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21-23.
Those who never believe will be condemned. John 3:18, 2 Thess 2:12.
John 3:18 [18], He that
believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him is
not condemned: but he that
believes not (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = not believing) is condemned already, because
he has not believed (G4100 πιστεύων V-RIA-3S present tense; perfect indicative active = not believing) in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The section your ignoring here is the same as the sections you were shown in the post you are quoting from in
post # 189 linked that you have not considered in the other scriptures you provided in earlier posts from John 5:24 and John 10:26-28 and the same Greek words are used an all scriptures here including John 3:18. So once again your making the same mistake here. The scripture here is saying that he that is
believing (present tense) on him has eternal life and he that is
believing not (present tense) condemned. So as shown in the OP if someone chooses to depart the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin are they believing and following what God's Word says or are they no longer believing and following what Gods' Word says? If they are no longer believing (present tense) they are unbelievers. As shown earlier even in the other scriptures you previously quoted, those who are Gods' sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow it.
Those who are not God's sheep do not hear and follow God's Word according to John 10:26-27. So the scriptures your providing are conditional to believing and the present tense to believing now. If we are not believing and following God's Word to the end we will not receive everlasting life according to the scriptures (see the scriptures already provided in
post # 2;
post # 3; and
post # 5). According to the scriptures as shown in the linked posts above our salvation is
conditional on
believing and following what God's Word says as shown from the scriptures in
post # 7 linked because whatsoever is
not of faith is
sin *
Romans 14:23.
Let's look at your next scripture...
2 Thessalonians 2:12, That they all might be damned who
believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Well this scripture is only supporting what is written to you here and in the OP. That is that if we are not
believing and following God's Word in the
present tense we are damned so not really much more to add here to what has already been shared from the scriptures with you.
So even the scriptures you are posting do not support your interpretation of them.
Take Care dear friend.
