Predestination

[jameshjr]

So. Yesterday i was watching some of RC Sproul's video series about love on youtube.

He mentioned a new idea to me about (calvinist) predestination (that God has elected people before time to be saved).

To make a long story short. This has really affected me. i have spent a number of hours looking into this and i believe that he is right.

Obviously i acknowledge how great this is of God to do for me and others.

However, i am really struggling with the obvious inference that: if He chooses to save some; others (without being saved by God) will end up in hell.

I am really struggling with is the idea of people i know (whom, at this point i cannot see being saved) being tormented eternally (so far as i know) in lakes of fire and always in pain and suffering with no end, ever, with no chance/hope of ending up in heaven.

I do not really want to have a discussion about the truth of calvinism.

But,

what i would really appreciate is for others whom have come to this conclusion to share how they got over/dealt with/ made peace with this painful realisation.

Note: I know that God is just and that it is not unjust for Him to allow people to go to hell. i know God is sovereign and what he does is right and true, but as a man, i am really struggling with this.

Thank you and God bless.

 

[renniks]

So. Yesterday i was watching some of RC Sproul's video series about love on youtube.

He mentioned a new idea to me about (calvinist) predestination (that God has elected people before time to be saved).

To make a long story short. This has really affected me. i have spent a number of hours looking into this and i believe that he is right.

Obviously i acknowledge how great this is of God to do for me and others.

However, i am really struggling with the obvious inference that: if He chooses to save some; others (without being saved by God) will end up in hell.

I am really struggling with is the idea of people i know (whom, at this point i cannot see being saved) being tormented eternally (so far as i know) in lakes of fire and always in pain and suffering with no end, ever, with no chance/hope of ending up in heaven.

I do not really want to have a discussion about the truth of calvinism.

But,

what i would really appreciate is for others whom have come to this conclusion to share how they got over/dealt with/ made peace with this painful realisation.

Note: I know that God is just and that it is not unjust for Him to allow people to go to hell. i know God is sovereign and what he does is right and true, but as a man, i am really struggling with this.

Thank you and God bless.

I got over it by realizing it's a misinterpretation of scripture.
I suggest you do some reading from the arminian perspective.

 

[St_Worm2]

I do not really want to have a discussion about the truth of calvinism.

Hello James, if what you said above is true (that you do not want this discussion to be about the truth of Calvinism), then you may want to repost this thread on the Ask A Calvinist board, because what you don't want will probably end up being the very topic of many/most of the replies that you'll receive here

In fact, debate over this topic will, no doubt, break out (like it always does), even though debate on this particular board is not allowed.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - just FYI, I became a Calvinist (after being an outspoken Arminian for more than a decade) because of my struggle with the Arminian answer to the same basic question that you are struggling with now, the reason why so many remain reprobate.

 

[messianist]

With Arminian, they are taking the credit themselves.

 

[TedT]

However, i am really struggling with the obvious inference that: if He chooses to save some; others (without being saved by God) will end up in hell.

GOD's choosing of some of those who chose to sin in HIS sight for salvation and passing over others effectively choosing them for hell cannot have been HIS CHOICE since it is clear that 1. HE does everything HE does for HIS pleasure and 2. HE takes NO pleasure in the death of any sinner and wants no one to be damned! Ezekiel 18:32, 1 Timothy 2:4

Therefore this decision must have been forced upon HIM by some of HIS creation choosing to sin the unforgivable sin against HIS will, making them eternally unable to be brought to salvation and therefore fit only for destruction.

This suggests that sinners chose their FATE by their free will and then He gave them predetermined LIVES to work out that fate.

 

[jameshjr]

I got over it by realizing it's a misinterpretation of scripture.
I suggest you do some reading from the arminian perspective.

Hello, thank you for the message. i did hear about that interpretation as the opposite of calvinism. i will look up their arguments for what they believe.

 

[jameshjr]

Hello James, if what you said above is true (that you do not want this discussion to be about the truth of Calvinism), then you may want to repost this thread on the Ask A Calvinist board, because what you don't want will probably end up being the very topic of many/most of the replies that you'll receive here

In fact, debate over this topic will, no doubt, break out (like it always does), even though debate on this particular board is not allowed.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - just FYI, I became a Calvinist (after being an outspoken Arminian for more than a decade) because of my struggle with the Arminian answer to the same basic question that you are struggling with now, the reason why so many remain reprobate.

hello David, thank you for the message. I will do this. i was warned by RC that this is always a contentious subject.

God bless.

 

[jameshjr]

With Arminian, they are taking the credit themselves.

aint that just like an arminian

(only joking all)

Thank you for the message messianist.

 

[messianist]

aint that just like an arminian

(only joking all)

Thank you for the message messianist.

 

[jameshjr]

GOD's choosing of some of those who chose to sin in HIS sight for salvation and passing over others effectively choosing them for hell cannot have been HIS CHOICE since it is clear that 1. HE does everything HE does for HIS pleasure and 2. HE takes NO pleasure in the death of any sinner and wants no one to be damned! Ezekiel 18:32, 1 Timothy 2:4

Therefore this decision must have been forced upon HIM by some of HIS creation choosing to sin the unforgivable sin against HIS will, making them eternally unable to be brought to salvation and therefore fit only for destruction.

This suggests that sinners chose their FATE by their free will and then He gave them predetermined LIVES to work out that fate.

Hello TedT, thank you for the message. Definitely something for me to consider there. thanks again.

 

[jameshjr]

Hello all, i have created a new thread with the same question but in the calvinist forum. If you wanted to follow it, the link to it is here:

pre-destination

I wasnt sure how to move the thread to a different forum, so i have requested that this one be closed. If you wanted to follow the discussion in the other forum, please no debate about the truth of calvinism.

God bless,

James.

 

[mnorian]

Admin hat on

This thread has been closed by the OP's request.

Hat off​