False Prophets

[Original Happy Camper]

My beliefs regarding eschatology are ambivalent and have absolutely nothing to do with my post. I've seen both sides presented by people who don't do the cryptic mystical special vison routine. I can't even understand what the mystics are talking about, so it's not a matter where bias would be involved.

very nice scholarly dance around not answering a simple question

 

[Servus]

very nice scholarly dance around not answeri4,5t5ng a simple question

Good grief. What kind of argument are you trying to provoke?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Good grief. What kind of argument are you trying to provoke?

no argument just trying to get you to answer a simple question

And I see that you are unwilling to do that

so I will not bother you any more

have a blessed day

 

[Servus]

no argument just trying to get you to answer a simple question

And I see that you are unwilling to do that

so I will not bother you any more

have a blessed day

I answered it. I'm not into eschatology. My mind isn't made up. Do you have a habit of calling someone a liar and then badgering them?

Putting you on permanent ignore.

 

[topher694]

Could you elaborate on that "nope" please?

Making a mistake does not make one a false prophet as the post I was replying to suggested. Obviously a pattern of mistakes should be highly scrutinized and dealt with, but again it does not automatically make one a false prophet. If it did Nathan would have been a false prophet. Further, personal prophecy is conditional in nature, so if someone receives a word but rejects it and does not follow through with it, on the surface their rejection and look like the prophet's failure, even though the prophet said exactly what God told them to say.

A actual false prophet seeks to undermine God (albeit sneakily), divide the people of God and lure them into sin... ON PURPOSE. They don't love the Lord, they don't even try to consult God (except for show) they are fully aware what they are doing is deceptive. They will often sound very good on the surface, but if you examine their fruit you will see a pattern of destruction left in their wake.

 

[Servus]

Making a mistake does not make one a false prophet as the post I was replying to suggested. Obviously a pattern of mistakes should be highly scrutinized and dealt with, but again it does not automatically make one a false prophet. If it did Nathan would have been a false prophet. Further, personal prophecy is conditional in nature, so if someone receives a word but rejects it and does not follow through with it, on the surface their rejection and look like the prophet's failure, even though the prophet said exactly what God told them to say.

A actual false prophet seeks to undermine God (albeit sneakily), divide the people of God and lure them into sin... ON PURPOSE. They don't love the Lord, they don't even try to consult God (except for show) they are fully aware what they are doing is deceptive. They will often sound very good on the surface, but if you examine their fruit you will see a pattern of destruction left in their wake.

Thanks for that point of view. I'm not into it so I haven't thought about it much. But I will say if someone makes a prophecy I don't they shouldn't make it a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. And I'll also say that that when it comes to prophets in the Bible, it's not like there were dozens of them at all times throughout scripture. Usually there was one prophet at a time. But in modern times there's probably hundreds of people who say or have said they're a prophet. I just don't see that there's oodles of legitimate prophets. That certainly didn't seem to occur in the Bible.

 

[topher694]

Thanks for that point of view. I'm not into it so I haven't thought about it much. But I will say if someone makes a prophecy I don't they shouldn't make it a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. And I'll also say that that when it comes to prophets in the Bible, it's not like there were dozens of them at all times throughout scripture. Usually there was one prophet at a time. But in modern times there's probably hundreds of people who say or have said they're a prophet. I just don't see that there's oodles of legitimate prophets. That certainly didn't seem to occur in the Bible.

That's not entirely true that prophets were rare. At times Israel had fallen away from God or was in bondage, yes they were rare. But other times there were groups of prophets (See 1 Samuel 10 & 2 Kings 6). What you are probably noticing is that there was usually one primary prophet that spoke to the nation/king (one each for Israel and Judah after the split) and those are the prophecies that were recorded and we still read today. That doesn't mean there weren't others.

We see the same thing in the NT. Sometimes in the book of Acts after ministering to a group of people the Bible records that they remained with them and prophesied to them. There are at the very, very least 3 prophets named in the book of Acts that were operating at the same time and many other mentions of prophecy happening. 1 Cor 14 says the spirit of prophecy is subject to Prophets. ie. prophets should judge prophetic words. How can that happen if they are exceedingly rare? In Eph 4, Paul lists the 5 fold ministry offices/graces for "the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry". So the office of Prophet carries 1/5 of our equipping. If the office is exceedingly rare then that leaves most of us without the ability to be fully equipped to do what God has called us to do... that doesn't sound like something God would do to us.

The issue these days with "Prophets" that gets people all worked up is the self-advertised, self-promoting, self-seeking bunch that are easy to find on social media. The problem is those guys are: easy to find. Why? Because they are doing it for the wrong reasons and people (many here) by extension think that represents the state of the prophetic today. However, true, mature prophets would not be self-promoting in that manner (that doesn't mean you can't have a social media presence though), therefore they would be harder for you and I to identify online, not because they aren't there, but simply because they are doing it right. In fact many authentic prophets now shy away from the title because of the stigma the self-promoters have created, which is a shame.

 

[Servus]

That's not entirely true that prophets were rare. At times Israel had fallen away from God or was in bondage, yes they were rare. But other times there were groups of prophets (See 1 Samuel 10 & 2 Kings 6). What you are probably noticing is that there was usually one primary prophet that spoke to the nation/king (one each for Israel and Judah after the split) and those are the prophecies that were recorded and we still read today. That doesn't mean there weren't others.

We see the same thing in the NT. Sometimes in the book of Acts after ministering to a group of people the Bible records that they remained with them and prophesied to them. There are at the very, very least 3 prophets named in the book of Acts that were operating at the same time and many other mentions of prophecy happening. 1 Cor 14 says the spirit of prophecy is subject to Prophets. ie. prophets should judge prophetic words. How can that happen if they are exceedingly rare? In Eph 4, Paul lists the 5 fold ministry offices/graces for "the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry". So the office of Prophet carries 1/5 of our equipping. If the office is exceedingly rare then that leaves most of us without the ability to be fully equipped to do what God has called us to do... that doesn't sound like something God would do to us.

The issue these days with "Prophets" that gets people all worked up is the self-advertised, self-promoting, self-seeking bunch that are easy to find on social media. The problem is those guys are: easy to find. Why? Because they are doing it for the wrong reasons and people (many here) by extension think that represents the state of the prophetic today. However, true, mature prophets would not be self-promoting in that manner (that doesn't mean you can't have a social media presence though), therefore they would be harder for you and I to identify online, not because they aren't there, but simply because they are doing it right. In fact many authentic prophets now shy away from the title because of the stigma the self-promoters have created, which is a shame.

I have a feeling that what you said in the second paragraph is what Jipsah was referring to. I think if someone's minister and fellow congregants consider someone to have the gift of prophecy, then they're more likely to be legitimate. Also when it comes to past prophets, say from the 19th century, I think if the vast majority of the body of Christ considers them false, then they probably were. My niece/goddaughter at one time talked about being a prophet and or taking a course on prophecy at the Christian college she was attending. And I certainly have a great deal of confidence in her. But 3 or 4 on this forum I know of who frankly act strange and write strange things, I don't know what to make of them. They seem to me to display hubris and put themselves on a pedestal so to speak. Now when it comes to prophecy, I think some think that only relates to eschatology. But I figure it must have a broader scope than that. Were those prophesying in Acts only prophesying the end of the world?

 

[topher694]

I have a feeling that what you said in the second paragraph is what Jipsah was referring to. I think if someone's minister and fellow congregants consider someone to have the gift of prophecy, then they're more likely to be legitimate. Also when it comes to past prophets, say from the 19th century, I think if the vast majority of the body of Christ considers them false, then they probably were. My niece/goddaughter at one time talked about being a prophet and or taking a course on prophecy at the Christian college she was attending. And I certainly have a great deal of confidence in her. But 3 or 4 on this forum I know of who frankly act strange and write strange things, I don't know what to make of them. They seem to me to display hubris and put themselves on a pedestal so to speak. Now when it comes to prophecy, I think some think that only relates to eschatology. But I figure it must have a broader scope than that. Were those prophesying in Acts only prophesying the end of the world?

You may be right about what he was referring to. But blanket statements like that cause just as many issues as the self-promoters do. It can turn people away from the authentic prophetic before they even begin. Just because some people abuse the truth doesn't mean the rest of us should refuse the truth.

Schools of Prophets are biblical. I'd certainly prefer people pursuing the gift be trained in some manner, that's part of what I do. But, I wouldn't worry about the 3 or 4 on here. This is the internet and an anonymous forum. Probably not the best measuring stick for the authentic prophetic. Best advice I could give her is to connect with and be trained by prophetic people who have observably good fruit in their lives and genuinely want to see her grow and learn. If something feels off... trust your discernment. However, keep in mind there is a difference between something being "off" and a teacher/leader challenging you.

 

[Francis Drake]

Whatever their motivation, who says "Thus saith the Lord", and then follows it with something that the Lord didn't actually say, is a false prophet. They could just be deranged and imagine that the Lord is actually speaking to them, or they could just be plain old villains.

Why should a false prophet be treated worse than a false teacher? Since Constantine made his power grab for the church, we have been subject to over a thousand years of falsehood, entirely at the hands of teachers with no help from real or false prophets. And look where that has led, thousands of different teachings, denominations and sects.
If they are not all doctrinally correct, then who do we burn at the stake, because such variety and competition indicates the church is riddled with false teachers, with no thanks to false prophets!

 

[timothyu]

Since Constantine made his power grab for the church

Don't forget the church also made a power grab to work alongside of the governance of man to increase their own wealth and power, contrary to the will of God. What influence would these traitors to the Kingdom of God who re-joined the world of man and abandoned God's governance, have upon the Christian religion to follow and all denominations within?

 

[Francis Drake]

Don't forget the church also made a power grab to work alongside of the governance of man to increase their own wealth and power, contrary to the will of God. What influence would these traitors to the Kingdom of God who re-joined the world of man and abandoned God's governance, have upon the Christian religion to follow and all denominations within?

Of course. But the question of burning false teachers remains the same.

 

[timothyu]

But the question of burning false teachers remains the same.

Depends on how badly some want to control the narrative. We see a similar situation today where no one is being burnt yet, but censorship of free speech and alternate ideas to the controlled narrative has caused a number of voices to disappear. Tidier but effective.

 

[Francis Drake]

Depends on how badly some want to control the narrative. We see a similar situation today where no one is being burnt yet, but censorship of free speech and alternate ideas to the controlled narrative has caused a number of voices to disappear. Tidier but effective.

Just for balance, until those who go on about stoning false prophets shut up, I think we should talk about burning all false teachers.
That's natural justice, given that false teachers have done far more damage to the body of Christ than false prophets ever have.

 

[timothyu]

given that false teachers have done far more damage to the body of Christ than false prophets ever have.

But one must consider that when the blind have led the blind for so long, false teachers don't even know they are off track. How many even realise the religion abandoned the Kingdom/governance of God to amalgamate with the contrary world of man, thus forcing themselves to teach another gospel? To make matters worse, they have lost track of the original times, trying to fit teachings into the times as they know them instead of when a Jesus was around..

Here is an example of original teaching.

 

[topher694]

But one must consider that when the blind have led the blind for so long, false teachers don't even know they are off track. How many even realise the religion abandoned the Kingdom/governance of God to amalgamate with the contrary world of man, thus forcing themselves to teach another gospel? To make matters worse, they have lost track of the original times, trying to fit teachings into the times as they know them instead of when a Jesus was around..

Here is an example of original teaching.

If that's the case, what do you propose be done about it? Surely more can be done that just complaining about it. (btw, that's not meant as an accusation)

 

[timothyu]

If that's the case, what do you propose be done about it?

According to the Parable of the Sower, we are to do nothing more than cast seeds. It is not up to us where they land or how they grow. Those who sow tares will have their seeds grow among willing ears just as the good seeds will fall upon the ears that God wants. It's not up to us, but up to Him who hears what. Good seeds focus on the Kingdom/governance of God, the tares upon the world of man we have made in our own image.

 

[topher694]

According to the Parable of the Sower, we are to do nothing more than cast seeds. It is not up to us where they land or how they grow. Those who sow tares will have their seeds grow among willing ears just as the good seeds will fall upon the ears that God wants. It's not up to us, but up to Him who hears what. Good seeds focus on the Kingdom/governance of God, the tares upon the world of man we have made in our own image.

Exactly. We need to focus on demonstrating the right way.

 

[timothyu]

Exactly. We need to focus on demonstrating the right way.

Agree. The minute we criticize anyone else we are no longer on the right path. Jesus said not to rebel, be it against government or those you disagree with, but to love them as self.

 

[apollosdtr]

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

...

1. How to identify false prophets.

2. What steps can we take to prevent being fooled by their lies.

In my experience, the type of person likely to be a false prophet delights in putting others down, in the flawed notion doing so lifts themselves higher. They love to negatively label and slander innocents.

They are more comfortable with lies, than truth. Lies come easy to them. While truth is difficult if not impossible for them to find.

They believe reducing the rights and freedoms of others paves the road to future progress and prosperity. Stripping women of the right to vote, stripping americans of the right to bear arms and similar movements which reduce opportunities and prosperity in the world are their favorite things. They are fanatically goal oriented in terms of finding ways for governments to assume greater power at the expense of overall rights, freedom and privacy.

They seek to control everyone and are chronically unable to control themselves.

They want money and power and to make all the important decisions. Then blame everyone except themselves if they make poor choices and are unhappy with the results.

They stand for nothing and fall for everything. They are fooled by every deception and support every horrible idea and terrible candidate who comes along. And lack the self awareness to realize it.

...

Long story short, have you had experiences with false prophets you would care to share. Any advice, tips or insights would be appreciated.

Wow... that's good. It probably defines the character of the people who will fall for the false prophet... man makes god in his own image, in the last days.

I love this thread, bravo!!!

and also, recognizing a false prophet is less a matter of noticing character faults in the person than it is in recognizing the uniqueness of his or her claims.

If they put an important part of the Bible into a light that hardly any Christian church ever before agreed to, you need to be instantly wary.

The whole world wanders after the beast, because of the witness of the false prophet... so it's the mainstream that takes on the mark of the beast.

And if it turns out that the two witnesses are speaking what the mainstream never thought... the mainstream won't be listening.

So for instance, thousands of years of ceremony and the blind leading the blind promoting tradition, would be considered more reliable?

Were not the last true prophets the Hebrew king makers of the OT? One could also say John the Baptist was the last as he proclaimed the last King we need.

Blind guides of the blind. When Jesus spoke these words, the multitudes were the blind people.

Jesus is called a Prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18-19, and is considered a Prophet by the poor... who hardly ever have a voice in history. And Jesus' own prophecies fill the parables of Matthew...
and overflow into the Revelation, where Jezebel becomes Babylon by being tossed onto a bed... of adultery, because of her children who'd been called My servants by Jesus. There is no chance of adultery apart from marriage... which used to include the betrothal.