Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[dogs4thewin]

Then what is he doing?

Well, first of all he gave us the knowledge for the vaccine and second of all. he has worked miracles in allowing people to recover does not mean everyone.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Even slipperier slope using the logic of denying service. Should the obese be denied services? How about HIV patients? How about smokers and alcoholics?

Again, I will agree with that the day they flood the hospitals to the point others are denied treatment.

 

[98cwitr]

Again, I will agree with that the day they flood the hospitals to the point others are denied treatment.

They already are if you consider that 94% of those having severe issues with covid are those with comorbidities according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

It's all being ignored by the media though...even though it's clearly published by the CDC.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I don't think health care workers necessarily don't WANT to help folks who are sick. In some places they CAN'T help everyone. Resources are scarce due to overcrowding of hospitals. If people make the choice not to get vaccinated, they must be willing to face these facts. They may not get the treatment some seem to take for granted.

Thank you and they should be willing to allow those who did their part to go in front of them.

 

[dogs4thewin]

They already are if you consider that 94% of those having severe issues with covid are those with comorbidities according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

It's all being ignored by the media though...even though it's clearly published by the CDC.

No.I am saying if the virus was out of the picture.

 

[98cwitr]

No.I am saying if the virus was out of the picture.

I understand, but we need to consider the high risk factors that are avoidable.

 

[Sparagmos]

They already are if you consider that 94% of those having severe issues with covid are those with comorbidities according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

It's all being ignored by the media though...even though it's clearly published by the CDC.

Odd that you used data from last year. Why did you pick that week in particular?

 

[Sparagmos]

I understand, but we need to consider the high risk factors that are avoidable.

And the biggest one, and easiest to fix, us being unvaccinated.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I understand, but we need to consider the high risk factors that are avoidable.

I understand that and the day that those above mentioned people are causing other people to not get treated I will say that those decisions should play a role. There is another difference too in some not all but some of the above cases the issue is caused by prior as opposed to current behavior.

 

[dogs4thewin]

And the biggest one, and easiest to fix, us being unvaccinated.

Yes, that is what I meant by current as opposed to past behavior.

 

[98cwitr]

Odd that you used data from last year. Why did you pick that week in particular?

Well because that data is still accurate compared to current data: COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

 

[Vylo]

I don't care about Trump. He sucked. All I said was that Trump nor Biden addressed the nation and made an evidence based case for vaccines. They should have.

I mean, you shouldn't have to. Vaccines have wiped 2 diseases from the face of the earth, a feat never performed before. It is the reason we don't have Polio in the US. Vaccines have worked for a very long time.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I mean, you shouldn't have to. Vaccines have wiped 2 diseases from the face of the earth, a feat never performed before. It is the reason we don't have Polio in the US. Vaccines have worked for a very long time.

I wonder if people fought and complained about those being mandated?

 

[whatbogsends]

I mean, you shouldn't have to. Vaccines have wiped 2 diseases from the face of the earth, a feat never performed before. It is the reason we don't have Polio in the US. Vaccines have worked for a very long time.

Vaccination certainly can be an effective tool to fight disease. In some cases, such as with polio or measels, it's our best tool that we have.

a) Not all vaccines have equal effectiveness. Just because something is called a vaccine doesn't mean it has the capability to end transmission of a pathogen. There is ample evidence that our current vaccines effectiveness is limited in preventing transmission of Covid, with studies ranging from 40%-80% for prevention of delta.

b) Covid mutates much more quickly than polio. Just like flu shots, vaccines have limited effectiveness due to the variations within the virus. Even with 100% uptake of the current available vaccines, transmission and mutation will continue.

LONDON — Achieving herd immunity with Covid vaccines when the highly infectious delta variant is spreading is “not a possibility,” a leading epidemiologist said.

Experts agree on several reasons why such a goal — where overall immunity in a population is reached and the spread of the virus is stopped — is not likely.

Sir Andrew Pollard, head of the Oxford Vaccine Group, told British lawmakers Tuesday that as Covid vaccines did not stop the spread of the virus entirely — with vaccinated people still able to be infected and transmit the virus — the idea of achieving herd immunity was “mythical.”

“I think we are in a situation here with this current variant where herd immunity is not a possibility because it still infects vaccinated individuals,” said Pollard, one of the lead researchers in the creation of the AstraZeneca-University of Oxford vaccine.

Herd immunity is 'mythical' with the Covid delta variant, expert says (cnbc.com)

 

[dogs4thewin]

Vaccination certainly can be an effective tool to fight disease. In some cases, such as with polio or measels, it's our best tool that we have.

a) Not all vaccines have equal effectiveness. Just because something is called a vaccine doesn't mean it has the capability to end transmission of a pathogen. There is ample evidence that our current vaccines effectiveness is limited in preventing transmission of Covid, with studies ranging from 40%-80% for prevention of delta.

b) Covid mutates much more quickly than polio. Just like flu shots, vaccines have limited effectiveness due to the variations within the virus. Even with 100% uptake of the current available vaccines, transmission and mutation will continue.

LONDON — Achieving herd immunity with Covid vaccines when the highly infectious delta variant is spreading is “not a possibility,” a leading epidemiologist said.

Experts agree on several reasons why such a goal — where overall immunity in a population is reached and the spread of the virus is stopped — is not likely.

Sir Andrew Pollard, head of the Oxford Vaccine Group, told British lawmakers Tuesday that as Covid vaccines did not stop the spread of the virus entirely — with vaccinated people still able to be infected and transmit the virus — the idea of achieving herd immunity was “mythical.”

“I think we are in a situation here with this current variant where herd immunity is not a possibility because it still infects vaccinated individuals,” said Pollard, one of the lead researchers in the creation of the AstraZeneca-University of Oxford vaccine.

Herd immunity is 'mythical' with the Covid delta variant, expert says (cnbc.com)

yet the vaccinated people are FAR less likely to be taking up a hospital bed or dying which are ood things.

 

[Sparagmos]

Well because that data is still accurate compared to current data: COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

You picked that week in particular because it’s "still accurate?" That’s hard to believe on a couple of measures.

Your new link isn’t the same chart, so I can’t compare the two.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Even slipperier slope using the logic of denying service. Should the obese be denied services? How about HIV patients? How about smokers and alcoholics?

When there's no room at the inn, you sleep in the manger. When there's no room in the hospital, you die at home.

"Should" has nothing to do with it.

 

[KCfromNC]

If most meant simply "greater than 50%", than it does little to explain efficacy against hospitalization since ~60% (couldn't find a good recent source) of hospitalized patients in Israel are fully vaccinated.

No, what explains the efficacy there is the fact that both vaccination rates and risks from covid vary with age. People who do have a "good recent source" have run the numbers and surprise, surprise, the vaccine is highly effective at preventing hospitalization.

See e.g. https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated for an analysis of this using actual data rather than vague hand waving.

Moreover, with nearly 2/3 of Israel being fully vaccinated, if the vaccines were effective at stopping transmission, we should be seeing lower rates of infection than when no vaccines were available.

Lower rates than what? You're trying to make the case that we'd expect lower infection rates than before a more contagious version of the disease appeared? You might want to rethink that argument.

 

[KCfromNC]

They already are if you consider that 94% of those having severe issues with covid are those with comorbidities according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

It's all being ignored by the media though...even though it's clearly published by the CDC.

It isn't being ignored by the media :

How Does The COVID-19 Coronavirus Kill? What Happens When You Get Infected
How this coronavirus kills its victims
Coronavirus: What it does to the body

And so on. Not sure why we'd expect this to be front page news at this point - is it really a mystery to some that serious covid cases do some pretty nasty things to people's lungs?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I wonder if people fought and complained about those being mandated?

It would appear that Polio was serious enough to stop that particular trend:

Can't Help Falling In Love With A Vaccine: How Polio Campaign Beat Vaccine Hesitancy