The Danger of Creationism

SkyWriting

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For science, those are 'how' questions. Given the context of suggested causal agency, it's easy to confuse the issue with an equivocation of 'why?'

I know that some have that problem. They are not my problem.
Most people use the confusion to cover not having a scientific answer.
it doesn't matter how often I repeat, the question. They hide under muddy rocks.

Why does the sun shine.
Why is frozen water hard?
Why does water evaporate?
And why does life form from non-living matter?
Cause - Effect.
What drives abiogenesis?
,
,
,
,
"It's not an improvement. It's not uphill. It's not downhill. It just is what it is....la la la la" Life just happens...it's just natural. la la la
girl-fingers-ears-little-closing-her-her-37199300.jpg
 
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SkyWriting

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For science, those are 'how' questions. Given the context of suggested causal agency, it's easy to confuse the issue with an equivocation of 'why?'

Cart-before-horse error; of all the things that have been able to reproduce, those that still exist are those that have spent sufficient time and energy on it.

Chemistry in suitable conditions with a surplus of free energy.

I'm actually seeking authoritive answers from scholarly sources.
But stuff you make up will have to do, I guess.
 
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Occams Barber

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What drives abiogenesis?

Abiogenesis is a series of natural chemical processes which eventually result in what we call life. What drives any natural chemical process? Your use of the word 'drives' suggests that you're looking for something pushing the process in a particular direction. For this to happen would require something outside of natural processes - i.e., the supernatural or what you call 'God'. Another way to look at this is that life is the product of random chemistry in an early Earth environment rich in available chemical compounds and free energy - sometimes referred to as the 'Primordial Soup'.

I'm actually seeking authoritive answers from scholarly sources.
But stuff you make up will have to do, I guess.

I gave you Encyclopedia Britannica as an authoritative scholarly source. Any decent encyclopedia will have an article on abiogenesis. Here's another source; Abiogenesis Definition and Examples - Biology Online Dictionary

You talk about seeking answers but I'm not sure if you actually understand what it is you're looking for.

One thing you might like to think about is that there is no agreed definition of 'life'. There are various lists of characteristics which may indicate life but no clear definition. There are arguments, for instance, about whether a virus is 'life'.

In the context of this discussion, in the absence of a clear definition it appears that the line between life and non- life is fuzzy. This suggests that the transition from non-life to life(i.e., Abiogenesis) may be a continuum with non-life at one end and life at the other. In between we have a variety of chemical entities which sit in a kind of no-man's-land between life and non-life.

OB
 
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SkyWriting

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In between we have a variety of chemical entities which sit in a kind of no-man's-land between life and non-life.

I think the search for life is not so sloppy as you pretend it is.
 
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SkyWriting

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coffee4u

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Livestream from yesterday from Creation Myths (creationism debunking channel run by evolutionary biologist Dan Cardinale).

The thesis of the stream is the idea that creationist organizations (e.g. professional creationists) have spent decades training their followers to distrust science and science professionals. In the context of evolution-denial, it's theoretically not a big deal. In the context of the current pandemic and vaccines, however, science distrust is causing real harm.

The video specifically shows examples of professional creationists and creationist organizations promoting vaccines, and then proceeding to get into arguments with anti-vax contingents of their own followers.

There is a palpable irony in seeing creationists arguing in favor of science against other creationists arguing against it. At one point, a quote from Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, whereby Sarfati states that anyone thinking that the vaccine is worse than COVID-19 is living in a "magical world". Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "you mean like people who believe the world is only 6000 years old? Those people?"

Dr. Dan does credit these creationists and orgs that at least they are being responsible in promoting the vaccines and trying to save lives. But also laments that a lot of the folks posting vaccine conspiracies and other nonsense are basically just "gone" at this point. Words on the internet are not likely to convince them, even from people they otherwise had trusted.

He ends the video by calling on professional scientists to take more responsibility in debunking anti-science and pseudoscientific views no matter what they are. And that by not doing so, scientists are allowing general mistrust of science and science professionals to foster. Which in the context of anti-vax movements has deadly consequences.

Belief in creation has nothing to do with the pandemic or vaccines.
For sure some creationist will be anti vaccine.
I am also sure some atheists and truck drivers are too.

Just because someone belongs to group A does not automatically make them a part of group B.
 
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Occams Barber

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"It's not an improvement. It's not uphill. It's not downhill. It just is what it is....la la la la" Life just happens...it's just natural. la la la

By George - I think he's got it!! :)

OB
 
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Occams Barber

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Methinks I should start a thread on the dangers of Atheism. Bwaaaahhaaahahhahaa *Spits coffee all over keyboard*

Actually it's pretty cushy being an atheist. No ideology, no dogma, no rules. You get to decide what's right or wrong so no guilt. No sin, so no sins to confess. No heaven or hell to obsess over. Nothing to join or support financially. You can read what you like, watch what you like and, apart from the 'no gods' thing, believe what you like.

But the best, the very best, thing?

You get to sleep in every Sunday. :sleep:
OB
 
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andreha

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Actually it's pretty cushy being an atheist. No ideology, no dogma, no rules. You get to decide what's right or wrong so no guilt. No sin, so no sins to confess. No heaven or hell to obsess over. Nothing to join or support financially. You can read what you like, watch what you like and, apart from the 'no gods' thing, believe what you like.

But the best, the very best, thing?

You get to sleep in every Sunday. :)
OB

Actually, I've also been sleeping in every Sunday as of late. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of Churchianity. ^_^
 
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andreha

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You are obviously an undercover atheist. ;)

OB

*ROTFLOLSMCAOTK*

That's a good one.^_^

Seriously though, I've been called weird, over the top, a satanist, posessed, etc. etc. I'm one of those weirdos who prefer to (try and)practice instead of preaching.
 
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Occams Barber

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ROTFLOLSMCAOTK

Some readers may be confused by your usage of words from your native South African language. For their information, and according to my South African to English Dictionary, ROTFLOLSMCAOTK is originally a Zulu term meaning:

"The lion sleeps tonight"
but normally translated into English as
"You're kidding" :(
OB
 
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andreha

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Some readers may be confused by your usage of words from your native South African language. For their information, and according to my South African to English Dictionary, ROTFLOLSMCAOTK is originally a Zulu term meaning:

"The lion sleeps tonight"
but normally translated into English as
"You're kidding" :(
OB

Oh that. That's abbreviated English for:

Rolling On The Floor Laughing Out Loud Spitting My Coffee All Over The Keyboard.
 
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andreha

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Hey be careful spitting me all over the keyboard!

My bad. I need to sit further away from my monitor when having you, especially in this forum.^_^
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I know that some have that problem. They are not my problem.
Most people use the confusion to cover not having a scientific answer.
it doesn't matter how often I repeat, the question. They hide under muddy rocks.

Why does the sun shine.
Why is frozen water hard?
Why does water evaporate?
And why does life form from non-living matter?
Cause - Effect.
What drives abiogenesis?
There are scientific answers to all those questions.

Nuclear fusion.
Crystal lattice.
Molecular kinetic energy.
Organic chemistry.
Free energy.
 
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SkyWriting

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There are scientific answers to all those questions.

Nuclear fusion.
Crystal lattice.
Molecular kinetic energy.
Organic chemistry.
Free energy.

Now we are progressing. You imagine that Life is the result of the sun shining on chemicals.

So the sun shines on chemicals all over the Cosmos.
What is the value of life forming from chemicals compared to the rest of the Cosmos where life does not form.
Why is life a chemical result of sunshine?
How do the chemicals benefit from evolving into lifeforms?
What physical property is life fulfilling?
 
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