What is CRT?

[Aussie Pete]

Sure it can be misunderstood, like the bible, or Ikea instructions. That's why discussing it is useful, I think.

Cancel culture is pretty annoying, but declarations of the decline of civilization are a bit premature. Personally, I think that confronting inequality directly and thoroughly is more likely to improve society than trying to keep it all stuffed under the carpet.

We'll see. I'm not as optimistic. I'm 70. I've seen some amazing things in my lifetime. Japan becoming a democracy, Germany a good neighbour instead of a threat, the collapse of the Russian empire and Israel surviving and thriving against all odds.

Not so long ago Obama would have been sold as a slave. Yet for some reason, society is not satisfied. I don't believe that it ever will be, because the problem is spiritual, not social. I've seen the decline of spirituality and consequently, morality in the Western world. That inevitably leads to decline.

How long it will take before China overtakes the US as the world power, I don't know. I like the people of China. I do not trust their government at all.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Makes it sound like you are trying to wade through putty. There must be something better around.

Not here, there's not, unfortunately. It is where it is. But I'm still me and I make the best of it anyway. I just have to watch what I say or else....... I might end up saying the right thing in the wrong place.

 

[Tom 1]

I might end up saying the right thing in the wrong place.

T’internet might do a Midas’s barber on you.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

T’internet might do a Midas’s barber on you.

Maybe. But I think folks will be hard pressed to find that, in the final accounting of my analytical retinue, they can fully entertain the thought that I'm biased and, indeed, have the matching ears of an ass. In fact, if they check one ear, they might find that it looks something like this...

1) Loynes Sr, D. T. (2017). A God Worth Worshiping: Toward a Critical Race Theology.​

... while the other ear looks like this...

2) Paradise, B. (2014). How critical race theory marginalizes the African American Christian tradition. Mich. J. Race & L., 20, 117.​

Somewhere, in the the ongoing ping-pong volley of this set of considerations, is a more reasonably assessed evaluation of the pros and cons of CRT.

 

[muichimotsu]

Oh yes. The "you're being disingenous" counter-claim ...

... always oh so effective!

The point is: there...are...only...human beings...on this planet. And they're all biologically related in time.

You know this.

No one is claiming otherwise with the term race unless they explicitly are making the statement that somehow being black means you have some biological inferiority or genetic imperfection. Acknowledging someone is black is not saying, "And that means they're not a homo sapiens," anymore than acknowledging someone is white is saying, "And they're the only valid human,"

All races have the same genes, that's self evident, the term is not used to dehumanize innately (only with the agenda of using science to diminish and marginalize certain groups perceived as "savage", there's historical precedent for that), it's a descriptive trait about a category of humanity that is as unavoidable as discussions on gender and sex and our presumptions there.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

No one is claiming otherwise with the term race unless they explicitly are making the statement that somehow being black means you have some biological inferiority or genetic imperfection. Acknowledging someone is black is not saying, "And that means they're not a homo sapiens," anymore than acknowledging someone is white is saying, "And they're the only valid human,"

All races have the same genes, that's self evident, the term is not used to dehumanize innately (only with the agenda of using science to diminish and marginalize certain groups perceived as "savage", there's historical precedent for that), it's a descriptive trait about a category of humanity that is as unavoidable as discussions on gender and sex and our presumptions there.

ok. Fine. Thanks for further explicating your point here for all of us to acknowledge and mull over.

 

[muichimotsu]

ok. Fine. Thanks for further explicating your point here for all of us to acknowledge and mull over.

Trying to unify people by strawmanning the ones who want to acknowledge and look at underlying causes of prejudice in regards to race as somehow racist is kind of the opposite of an effective tactic

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Trying to unify people by strawmanning the ones who want to acknowledge and look at underlying causes of prejudice in regards to race as somehow racist is kind of the opposite of an effective tactic

Strawmanning? No, I think you've simply misunderstood my motive. And frankly, I'm rather sick of your attitude toward me and your constant picking at and disparaging of whatever I say.

How about this. Rather than just reading some brief post I've written, why don't you instead ASK me why I say what I say or what I might mean by what I say. Because so far, I don't think you fully get it, yet you always come at me as if you think you can read my mind with a cart full of insinuations and/or pejoratives in tow about my "apparent" lack of understanding about this or that.

As I've told other posters here: DON'T !!!

And by the way, please notice posts #55, #59 and #64 above, if you haven't yet done so. Thanks!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It is odd so many Christians seem to want to sweep Jesus' casual anti gentilism under the rug

Yes, I will since we all have the bigger picture (and meaning) available to us, if we choose to study, consider and take seriously the many contexts and implications we find within the New Testament.

I can only assume that in your own proficiency of being educated like I am, you're wanting to apply Hermeneutics fully to whatever apparent "anti-gentilism" Jesus seems to have expressed, right?

Or do you think that an application of CRT, in and of itself, by itself, will do the job already?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Makes it sound like you are trying to wade through putty. There must be something better around.

So, it's like this. Where something like CRT is concerned, I have to keep my putty knife handy no matter where I go, whether it's at a politically conservative church or at the local, liberal university. Maybe especially at the university since they're requiring books like this be read, studied and absorbed:

Gary R. Howard - We Can't Teach What We Don't Know: White Teachers, Multiracial Schools (2006)​

... this book was one of the texts needed for a class I was in. Its thesis is, while thoughtful and useful socially speaking, still a little culturally obnoxious at the same time.

 

[Tom 1]

So, it's like this. Where something like CRT is concerned, I have to keep my putty knife handy no matter where I go, whether it's at a politically conservative church or at the local, liberal university. Maybe especially at the university since they're requiring books like this be read, studied and absorbed:

Gary R. Howard - We Can't Teach What We Don't Know: White Teachers, Multiracial Schools (2006)​

... this book was one of the texts needed for a class I was in. Its thesis is, while thoughtful and useful socially speaking, still a little culturally obnoxious at the same time.

Americans do don’t subtle right? No half-measures. Or is that just a stereotype?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Americans do don’t subtle right? No half-measures. Or is that just a stereotype?

That's going to depend upon the specific American you talk to. Remember, we're a very 'Diverse' lot over here.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Americans do don’t subtle right? No half-measures. Or is that just a stereotype?

Moreover, the author of the book I mentioned above wasn't quite subtle about his thesis...

 

[Tom 1]

That's going to depend upon the specific American you talk to. Remember, we're a very 'Diverse' lot over here.

Ahhh...I see what you did there...

 

[Tom 1]

Moreover, the author of the book I mentioned above wasn't quite subtle about his thesis...

I can't remember the title without checking but what I remember is something like 'listen I'm right so just shut up ok?'. Not that I'm exaggerating for comic effect or anything.

Actually that's unfair, more like overly sincere than ranty maybe. That kind of sentiment has it's place too, I mean whatever the issue is.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I can't remember the title without checking but what I remember is something like 'listen I'm right so just shut up ok?'. Not that I'm exaggerating for comic effect or anything.

Actually that's unfair, more like overly sincere than ranty maybe. That kind of sentiment has it's place too, I mean whatever the issue is.

I'm only referring to the book I listed up in post #70. The problem with that book (and with the class, too, since it was being taught by an avowed Communist) is that I think there's too much of his admitted apostasy from the Christian faith (yes, he apostasized) that then feeds and plays into his choice of citing the ideas of "one True God" and "one True Messiah" as the Archimedian point upon which rests the political and theological overreach and historical oppressions caused by some Christian institutions. All of that in order to establish the foundation from which he says that White Privilege has abounded in the U.S. (but other countries too, for that matter).

I'm all for some of the social insights that CRT has to offer, but laying the 'blame' at the door of the idea that Jesus is "The Way, The Truth and The Life" is, I think, too much.

 

[Hank77]

So now we're at the posting vids because that somehow proves - what? Come on man, if you don't want to have a 2 way discussion, why waste your time and mine?

Tom, sometimes when someone is asked where they got their information from, it might be a video. This black man is pretty animated while he gives his opinion of CRT and seems to know what CRT is.

 

[muichimotsu]

Yes, I will since we all have the bigger picture (and meaning) available to us, if we choose to study, consider and take seriously the many contexts and implications we find within the New Testament.

I can only assume that in your own proficiency of being educated like I am, you're wanting to apply Hermeneutics fully to whatever apparent "anti-gentilism" Jesus seems to have expressed, right?

Or do you think that an application of CRT, in and of itself, by itself, will do the job already?

Jesus' anti gentilism was an early part of his ministry and didn't even always manifest in the same way with each gospel, so I'm not painting it with the broad brush you seem to insinuate, since each gospel's author has a different intent and audience they're presenting to, John in particular being the most anti semitic as I recall (ironically, given Jesus is Jewish in ethnicity himself).

The application of CRT to the gospels as to Jesus' situation is debatable as to relevance, since it's more xenophobia than racial based prejudice

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm only referring to the book I listed up in post #70. The problem with that book (and with the class, too, since it was being taught by an avowed Communist) is that I think there's too much of his admitted apostasy from the Christian faith (yes, he apostasized) that then feeds and plays into his choice of citing the ideas of "one True God" and "one True Messiah" as the Archimedian point upon which rests the political and theological overreach and historical oppressions caused by some Christian institutions. All of that in order to establish the foundation from which he says that White Privilege has abounded in the U.S. (but other countries too, for that matter).

I'm all for some of the social insights that CRT has to offer, but laying the 'blame' at the door of the idea that Jesus is "The Way, The Truth and The Life" is, I think, too much.

Is it possible Jesus' notion of a narrow way and the chosen people being who he initially talked to could have fed into colonialist and racist norms that persisted into American culture and history, especially if we factor in other related aspects like manifest destiny and the application of the Great Commission in "civilizing the savages"?

 

[muichimotsu]

Strawmanning? No, I think you've simply misunderstood my motive. And frankly, I'm rather sick of your attitude toward me and your constant picking at and disparaging of whatever I say.

How about this. Rather than just reading some brief post I've written, why don't you instead ASK me why I say what I say or what I might mean by what I say. Because so far, I don't think you fully get it, yet you always come at me as if you think you can read my mind with a cart full of insinuations and/or pejoratives in tow about my "apparent" lack of understanding about this or that.

As I've told other posters here: DON'T !!!

And by the way, please notice posts #55, #59 and #64 above, if you haven't yet done so. Thanks!

So the question is why do you seem to dismiss the idea of race as a valid sociological and anthropological category and try to unify people under some idea that seems to ignore the myriad other ways we are different?

Celebrating diversity (by acknowledging the differences that exist, such as race, ethnicity, religion, etc) is a far better notion of unifying rather than just some idea that's antiquated in the notion of trying to not be racist, but also almost seems more redundant in these modern times, as if people are still unsure about whether dark skinned people are the same species as light skinned people