Purpose of This World

[fhansen]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,
I'm coming back to faith and I have been struggling with a question that seems basic but I am struggling to find an answer: "Heaven and Hell are eternal. If our ultimate fate is to reside in one of these two forever, why would come to this world in the first place? What is the meaning of this world? That is to say, why should I care about anything in this world OTHER than for how it affects salvation for myself and others? If I should only care about that, than why have this life in the first place, and why is our decision regarding salvation here final?"
Any insight and especially passages to help me understand this would mean the world to me, if you'll pardon the pun. Thanks you.

Here we literally taste, we know, good and evil, and can therefore choose between the two. Here we experience and experiment with sin, with darkness, and, hopefully, learn to hate and run from it, and to the light when it’s revealed to us. Here we may be victim or victimizer, or both at differing times, causing or suffering from the harm done.

The only reason for this world is to cultivate, educate, mold, draw, test, refine, appeal to the human will so that it might become oriented rightly. Here we work out our salvation together with He who works in us.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thanks for the response. Be it heaven or a new Earth, my fundamental problem is with the transience of this Earth. In the face of an eternal world, this Earth seems insignificant to me.

This world is not our home we are just passing through. Look at this world as the testing grounds-the battle field between good( Gods ways) and evil (this world system)which opposes God and that is run by the god of this world as per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.

2 short books tells us about this battle/war going on and give us practical ways to live in this world but not be of this world.

1 John
James

hope this helps !!!

 

[Fervent]

This world exists because it pleases God for this world to exist.

Beyond that, we're speculating.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,
I'm coming back to faith and I have been struggling with a question that seems basic but I am struggling to find an answer: "Heaven and Hell are eternal. If our ultimate fate is to reside in one of these two forever, why would come to this world in the first place? What is the meaning of this world? That is to say, why should I care about anything in this world OTHER than for how it affects salvation for myself and others? If I should only care about that, than why have this life in the first place, and why is our decision regarding salvation here final?"
Any insight and especially passages to help me understand this would mean the world to me, if you'll pardon the pun. Thanks you.

The resolution to your conundrum is that neither "heaven" nor "hell" are eternal locations where the "soul" of a person flies off to for eternity after death.

Instead God's promise to us is resurrection from the dead. Even as Jesus has been raised from the dead, so will we be raised from the dead, bodily; not to live somewhere else, but to live here on God's good green earth. Because the power of Christ's resurrection means the renewal, restoration, and healing of all creation, that is what is meant in the Scriptures by "new heavens and new earth".

God is going to fix the world, heal the world, mend all the broken pieces of the world: When Jesus returns to judge, the dead will be raised, all things will be made new, and God will be all in all.

It's not about us going to heaven to live there for all eternity.
It's about heaven coming down to earth, to reside here for all eternity.

Our Lord taught us to pray:

"Our Father in heaven, holy is Your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,"

The purpose of the universe is that it is good, God made it, and He is going to rescue it from sin, death, and the devil. That's why Christ came, that's what the Gospel is all about, that's what salvation means.

Salvation isn't about leaving the earth to go to heaven.
Salvation is about God in Christ coming down and saving the world.

Heaven isn't a place we go to live for all eternity somewhere "up there"; neither is hell a place "somewhere down there".

"Heaven", ultimately, is what it looks like when God has set all things right in the end.
"Hell", ultimately, is what it looks like when men reject all that God is doing and will do for the world.

And if God's purpose is to put the world to rights, and if our hope is to be part of that, and if we have been called to live in that hope right now in the world, then we are called to bring that hope into the world.

We do that by preaching the Gospel and by loving our neighbor.

Because what happens here matters. What we do matters. How we treat other people and the rest of God's creation matters. Because this world matters. For this reason the Scriptures say that our labor in the Lord is not in vain.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

The resolution to your conundrum is that neither "heaven" nor "hell" are eternal locations where the "soul" of a person flies off to for eternity after death.

Instead God's promise to us is resurrection from the dead. Even as Jesus has been raised from the dead, so will we be raised from the dead, bodily; not to live somewhere else, but to live here on God's good green earth. Because the power of Christ's resurrection means the renewal, restoration, and healing of all creation, that is what is meant in the Scriptures by "new heavens and new earth".

God is going to fix the world, heal the world, mend all the broken pieces of the world: When Jesus returns to judge, the dead will be raised, all things will be made new, and God will be all in all.

It's not about us going to heaven to live there for all eternity.
It's about heaven coming down to earth, to reside here for all eternity.

Our Lord taught us to pray:

"Our Father in heaven, holy is Your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,"

The purpose of the universe is that it is good, God made it, and He is going to rescue it from sin, death, and the devil. That's why Christ came, that's what the Gospel is all about, that's what salvation means.

Salvation isn't about leaving the earth to go to heaven.
Salvation is about God in Christ coming down and saving the world.

Heaven isn't a place we go to live for all eternity somewhere "up there"; neither is hell a place "somewhere down there".

"Heaven", ultimately, is what it looks like when God has set all things right in the end.
"Hell", ultimately, is what it looks like when men reject all that God is doing and will do for the world.

And if God's purpose is to put the world to rights, and if our hope is to be part of that, and if we have been called to live in that hope right now in the world, then we are called to bring that hope into the world.

We do that by preaching the Gospel and by loving our neighbor.

Because what happens here matters. What we do matters. How we treat other people and the rest of God's creation matters. Because this world matters. For this reason the Scriptures say that our labor in the Lord is not in vain.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't see Scripture as presenting a gradual renewal of the old earth into the new earth, but rather, when its measure of iniquity is filled (Genesis 15:16), there will be a radical cleansing of the earth from all unrighteousness (2 Peter 3:11-13), and of the heavens from the principalities and powers (Ephesians 6:12; Colossians 2:15; Ephesians 1:20, 3:10).

I see that as the true meaning of the prophetical Armageddon (Revelation 15-19).

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't see Scripture as presenting a gradual renewal of the old earth into the new earth, but rather, when its measure of iniquity is filled (Genesis 15:16), there will be a radical cleansing of the earth from all unrighteousness (2 Peter 3:11-13), and of the heavens from the principalities and powers (Ephesians 6:12; Colossians 2:15; Ephesians 1:20, 3:10).

I see that as the true meaning of the prophetical Armageddon (Revelation 15-19).

I never mentioned "a gradual renewal of the old earth into the new earth". Nor is that something I believe in.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

I never mentioned "a gradual renewal of the old earth into the new earth". Nor is that something I believe in.

-CryptoLutheran

That is what I thought you meant by

"God is going to fix the world, heal the world, mend all the broken pieces of the world:"

That didn't sount like the radical cleansing of unrighteousness in 2 Peter 3:11-13.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That is what I thought you meant by

"God is going to fix the world, heal the world, mend all the broken pieces of the world:"

That didn't sount like the radical cleansing of unrighteousness in 2 Peter 3:11-13.

God fixing, healing, and mending the world is the setting of all things to rights; that's God's justice for creation, which by necessity also means fully dealing with all unrighteousness in the world.

I believe God is also fixing, healing, and mending us; and that means the future resurrection of the body.

The present creation is groaning in birth pangs; birth pangs are by their very nature the pains which precede childbirth. It is the agony of a world enslaved to sin and death crying and groaning to its Creator to set it free. The resurrection of our bodies is the freedom of creation, because that is when God will make all things new: When Christ returns as Judge of the living and the dead.

God has not purposed His creation for death, but life. That's what resurrection means, that which is dead made alive again. Our bodies are sown soulish and raised spiritual, because God's promise in Christ is that all who belong to Christ shall be raised up on the Last Day for everlasting life. And that is what God is going to do for creation, that's what new heavens and new earth mean: The radical transformation of creation by the power of God's grace, ushering in new creation: The work that began on Easter morning when the tomb was rolled away, into which we ourselves are partakers by the grace of God through faith, with the blessed hope of resurrection, the restoration of all things, and the superabundance of God when God is all in all.

Nothing I'm saying here is unbiblical or unorthodox, it is in keeping with what is written in Scripture and what has always been confessed and believed in the Church. It's the very things we confess in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Saint Steven]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,
I'm coming back to faith and I have been struggling with a question that seems basic but I am struggling to find an answer: "Heaven and Hell are eternal. If our ultimate fate is to reside in one of these two forever, why would come to this world in the first place? What is the meaning of this world? That is to say, why should I care about anything in this world OTHER than for how it affects salvation for myself and others? If I should only care about that, than why have this life in the first place, and why is our decision regarding salvation here final?"
Any insight and especially passages to help me understand this would mean the world to me, if you'll pardon the pun. Thanks you.

There are three views of the final judgment to consider. All three are biblical and contradictory. (sorry) But only one gibes a positive answer to your questions. (not every Christian believes in a forever burning hell)

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

Three doctrinal views of the final judgment:
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Ultimate Redemption (UR)
Also called Universal Reconciliation, Universal Restoration,
or just Christian Universalism

 

[Clare73]

God fixing, healing, and mending the world is the setting of all things to rights; that's God's justice for creation, which by necessity also means fully dealing with all unrighteousness in the world.

I believe God is also fixing, healing, and mending us; and that means the future resurrection of the body.

What about our future before the resurrection, where to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (Philippians 1:21-24)?

The present creation is groaning in birth pangs; birth pangs are by their very nature the pains which precede childbirth. It is the agony of a world enslaved to sin and death crying and groaning to its Creator to set it free. The resurrection of our bodies is the freedom of creation, because that is when God will make all things new: When Christ returns as Judge of the living and the dead.

God has not purposed His creation for death, but life. That's what resurrection means, that which is dead made alive again. Our bodies are sown soulish and raised spiritual, because God's promise in Christ is that all who belong to Christ shall be raised up on the Last Day for everlasting life. And that is what God is going to do for creation, that's what new heavens and new earth mean: The radical transformation of creation by the power of God's grace, ushering in new creation: The work that began on Easter morning when the tomb was rolled away, into which we ourselves are partakers by the grace of God through faith, with the blessed hope of resurrection, the restoration of all things, and the superabundance of God when God is all in all.

Nothing I'm saying here is unbiblical or unorthodox, it is in keeping with what is written in Scripture and what has always been confessed and believed in the Church. It's the very things we confess in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

What about our future before the resurrection, where to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (Philippians 1:21-24)?

Between death and resurrection we are with the Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

Between death and resurrection we are with the Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

And he is seated in the heavenlies.

So is resurrection our only future?

 

[ViaCrucis]

And he is seated in the heavenlies.

So is resurrection our only future?

I can tell that there is something you are trying to interrogate me about, but I honestly don't know what it is.

Yes, the only future which we look forward to and hope for is the resurrection. "Going to heaven" is a foretaste of that future, not that future itself.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

I can tell that there is something you are trying to interrogate me about, but I honestly don't know what it is.

Yes, the only future which we look forward to and hope for is the resurrection. "Going to heaven" is a foretaste of that future, not that future itself.

-CryptoLutheran

Not really. . .it seems our eternal future is about union with God, rather than a place, and in bodies, as was Christ's resurrected body, which can de-materialize and re-materialize. . .which might alternate between both places, unless it will be all one and the same place, Christ come down to take it all back with him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Not really. . .it seems our eternal future is about union with God, rather than a place, and in bodies, as was Christ's resurrected body, which can de-materialize and re-materialize. . .which might alternate between both places, unless it will be all one and the same place, Christ come down to take it all back with him.

I'm less focused on location than I am on the fact that God is going to set creation right, and we share in that.

I don't view "heaven" as a location though. Jesus ascending to the right hand of the Father isn't about Jesus literally sitting down on a chair somewhere in or beyond outer space. But the fulfillment of Daniel's vision concerning the Son of Man given all power, authority, and eternal dominion.

St. Paul tells us that, even now, we are seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6). Not that we will be seated with Him, but that we are seated with Him, already. Because we have been united to Christ by the grace of God (e.g. Galatians 3:27), He who "fills all things" (Ephesians 1:23).

"Heaven" isn't about a where, but about a Who.

I have no idea what our rest in the Lord's presence is like exactly, just that it is a consolation that between death and resurrection we don't cease, but continue to exist in and with the Lord until the future Day when God makes all things new. The closest we get are the apocalyptic visions described in the Apocalypse, in which the souls of the martyrs are described as before God.

Nor would I be so bold as to claim to know what the Age to Come is going to look like, we have signposts and promises, but remain seeing through the dark glass that St. Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 13. But we are told that all things will be made new, new heavens and new earth--this old world being radically changed, so that at long last the words of the Prophets shall come to pass, that the knowledge of the glory of the Lord shall cover the earth like waters cover the sea (Habakkuk 2:14), and that even the lion shall eat straw like an ox (Isaiah 11:7, Isaiah 65:25). There shall be no more death, nor sickness, nor suffering; men shall have turned their swords into plowman's tools, and spears into pruning hooks, war shall be no more (Isaiah 2:4), our striving against one another, and with the rest of creation, will no longer be.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

I'm less focused on location than I am on the fact that God is going to set creation right, and we share in that.

I don't view "heaven" as a location though. Jesus ascending to the right hand of the Father isn't about Jesus literally sitting down on a chair somewhere in or beyond outer space. But the fulfillment of Daniel's vision concerning the Son of Man given all power, authority, and eternal dominion.

St. Paul tells us that, even now, we are seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6). Not that we will be seated with Him, but that we are seated with Him, already. Because we have been united to Christ by the grace of God (e.g. Galatians 3:27), He who "fills all things" (Ephesians 1:23).

"Heaven" isn't about a where, but about a Who.

I have no idea what our rest in the Lord's presence is like exactly, just that it is a consolation that between death and resurrection we don't cease, but continue to exist in and with the Lord until the future Day when God makes all things new. The closest we get are the apocalyptic visions described in the Apocalypse, in which the souls of the martyrs are described as before God.

Nor would I be so bold as to claim to know what the Age to Come is going to look like, we have signposts and promises, but remain seeing through the dark glass that St. Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 13. But we are told that all things will be made new, new heavens and new earth--this old world being radically changed, so that at long last the words of the Prophets shall come to pass, that

the knowledge of the glory of the Lord shall cover the earth like waters cover the sea (Habakkuk 2:14), and that even the lion shall eat straw like an ox (Isaiah 11:7, Isaiah 65:25). There shall be no more death, nor sickness, nor suffering; men shall have turned their swords into plowman's tools, and spears into pruning hooks, war shall be no more (Isaiah 2:4), our striving against one another, and with the rest of creation, will no longer be.

-CryptoLutheran

That would be the home of righteousness, after the radical cleansing of unrighteousness
(2 Peter 3:10-13). . .in the Armgeddon(?)

 

[ViaCrucis]

That would be the home of righteousness, after the radical cleansing of unrighteousness
(2 Peter 3:10-13). . .in the Armgeddon(?)

As I don't know what it is you believe about Armageddon I don't know how to answer.

I don't believe in some final cataclysmic battle between good and evil. When the Lord returns, He returns as Judge, that's it. There is no cosmic battle between good and evil, God has already won the victory in Christ, and the day is coming when all the powers of this fallen age shall be no more--is that what you mean by Armageddon?

In other words, I don't know how you read/interpret the Apocalypse of St. John on this matter.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

As I don't know what it is you believe about Armageddon I don't know how to answer.

It's Megiddo (Judges 5:19) of the cosmic battle in Revelation 16:16, Revelation 17:14, the war of God (Isaiah 34:2).

I don't believe in some final cataclysmic battle between good and evil. When the Lord returns, He returns as Judge, that's it. There is no cosmic battle between good and evil, God has already won the victory in Christ, and the day is coming when all the powers of this fallen age shall be no more--is that what you mean by Armageddon?
In other words, I don't know how you read/interpret the Apocalypse of St. John on this matter.

I interpret precious little of Revelation.

 

[parousia70]

John 3:16 is not Fake News.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

God's implemented plan is that Society is being redeemed by the Atonement of Christ's blood and the power of the Holy Spirit via the Church. Christ's Church is carrying out God's plan for bringing the reconciliation of the Cross to all nations and we cannot fail (Matthew 16:18-19):

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as God did beseech you by us

So we can see that at this time God is reconciling all the world unto himself, per His Plan to do so.

God's plan is for us to love and focus on the world Jesus loves (John 3:16-17) and rules over (Revelation 1:5; Matthew 28:18)--the world he gave to his followers (Romans 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 3:22).

Jesus loves the world and reconciled it. We are to love what Jesus loves.

God Loves the World, and that's good enough for me.
I love anything that God Loves.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's Megiddo (Judges 5:19) of the cosmic battle in Revelation 16:16, Revelation 17:14, the war of God (Isaiah 34:2).
I interpret precious little of Revelation.

So are you saying you believe that it is a literal battle that will be fought in the Valley of Megiddo?

When you say you interpret precious little of the Revelation, do you mean you don't concern yourself with the meaning of the text? In which case, I am as puzzled as before, if not moreso.

-CrypoLutheran