Covid Christian hospitalized, but says "God brought her here"

[Aldebaran]

Look, I personally believe that as of right now people who CHOSE not to get the vaccine do not deserve care over those who did when it must be rationed. Later, when rationing and overcrowding is not an issue will be different.

What ever happened to "healthcare is a right"? That's what we used to hear from democrats who tried to convince us to have universal (government) healthcare. Now it's suddenly ok to deny it to those who also believe "my body, my choice", depending upon the choice?

 

[dogs4thewin]

What ever happened to "healthcare is a right"? That's what we used to hear from democrats who tried to convince us to have universal (government) healthcare. Now it's suddenly ok to deny it to those who also believe "my body, my choice", depending upon the choice?

I do not feel that healthcare should be right. Beyond not allowing someone to like bleed out.

 

[rambot]

Keep digging.

I wouldn't want anyone who thinks as above anywhere near the medical decision making process. Regardless of why someone becomes ill, they are in a vulnerable state and should never be subjected to the whims of people who have an agenda, those who love playing God or those who do not have compassion for the sick, period.

Then I imagine the American Healthcare system with it's private FOR profit insurers must literally be the entire bane of your existence.

Besides: What if the agenda is: "Everyone to be alive/healthy"?

Is that a SUPER objectionable agenda for you on its own?

 

[BNR32FAN]

so what happens if someone dies because they cannot get the care they need because too many people are there for a very preventable reason (starting to happen by the way).

Most people go to the emergency room as a result of a preventable illness or injury.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I am not talking about whether the injury or illness could have been prevented. I am talking about a situation where it could have been treated and resolved with no issue but for the fact that so many other people were there who did not take the vaccine, so other people end up dying from unrelated things because 100s of people come running to the hospital when their CHOICE not to get a vaccine backfires on them. If you are old enough to refuse the vaccine on your own free will you are old enough to ensure your affairs are in order and accept that if it backfires on you.

 

[rambot]

What ever happened to "healthcare is a right"? That's what we used to hear from democrats who tried to convince us to have universal (government) healthcare. Now it's suddenly ok to deny it to those who also believe "my body, my choice", depending upon the choice?

When you deny the vaccine, you deny yourself that right.

Not only that when enough people deny that vaccine, they deny treatment to people who have had the vaccine and are dying from other causes.

Your body, your choice. But if your choice is capricious and mercurial, to be changed when things are going poorly and you could have avoided it to the start.

What ever happenned to "personal responsibility"?

 

[essentialsaltes]

What ever happened to "healthcare is a right"? That's what we used to hear from democrats ... Now it's suddenly ok to deny it to

The opinions presented by some in this thread hardly apply to all Democrats. I'm content to let the medical ethicists sort out how to do this triage.

But it's not a question of denial when there just aren't any ICUs left.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Yes and if your vaccinated, you can have that better immunity from natural. Your argument fails in it's one or the other approach and ignores that you can have both. Vaccines make sure you live long enough to get the natural immunity.

It is simply false that vaccine immunity is better than natural immunity. It is not.

Your last sentence is more logical, and arguably true.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

but there is something she could have done that would have (probably) prevented her being there.

Maybe...maybe not. We just don't know. 7 vaccinated Florida patients die of COVID; nurse calls situation "disturbing"

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

No. The vaccinated who end up in the hospital have comorbidities.

And THEY got vaxxed because they took it serious.

Pretty much anyone who is ending up hospitalized has co-morbidities...with rare exceptions.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Maybe...maybe not. We just don't know. 7 vaccinated Florida patients die of COVID; nurse calls situation "disturbing"

That is why I said probably there are vaccinated people who can very ill and end up passing away of co-vid but when 90+ of people in the hospital for co-vid are unvaccinated that tells me something about how effective the vaccines are. In fact, if you look at my above post you will see just how hard of line I have taken. Pretty much do not take the vaccine be legally prepared to die.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Pretty much anyone who is ending up hospitalized has co-morbidities...with rare exceptions.

How many people who took the vaccines with those same conditions did NOT end up in the hospital? I know we can not really know that for sure, but what we DO know is that most people in the hospital did not take the vaccine and that there are plenty of people who did who are at higher risk that probably have some of those same conditions with breakthrough cases and yet did not need advanced medical treatment.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It is simply false that vaccine immunity is better than natural immunity. It is not.

Your last sentence is more logical, and arguably true.

I happen to have had both, so I wonder where people like me fit.

 

[rambot]

Pretty much anyone who is ending up hospitalized has co-morbidities...with rare exceptions.

Well there are few vaxxed people with comorbidities in the icu compared to unvaxxed.

 

[Hank77]

Well, if you have already been exposed, you have much better protection from natural immunity.

Some studies appear to make that determination. There are also studies saying that people who have had covid and then get vaccinated have a "super" immunity. I know if I had had covid I would still get vaccinated. I would think it's better than just a booster shot for vaccinated people.

 

[Hank77]

I happen to have had both, so I wonder where people like me fit.

'Super' immunized.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Well there are few vaxxed people with comorbidities in the icu compared to unvaxxed.

The ratio has been growing though.

 

[loveofourlord]

It is simply false that vaccine immunity is better than natural immunity. It is not.

Your last sentence is more logical, and arguably true.

BZZZT wrong, the reasons that vaccines are better normally is adjuvants they help boost your immune response making sure your more likely to have a good response to the vaccine, something that catching the disease normally doesn't have. Here is the thing, you can argue that MRNA vaccines aren't as good as natural immunity since your only learning part of the virus, but normal vaccines give you the whole virus + the adjuvant that gives you the whole virus plus something to make your immune system respond better. This whole natural immunity is normally just one massive naturalistic fallacy.

And like I said, with covid, taking both is the better way. It's like invectermin and such, even if they work, they only help you when your sick already the vaccine helps you not get sick in the first place.

 

[rambot]

The ratio has been growing though.

Has it? Like.... evidence?

 

[dogs4thewin]

'Super' immunized.

What would that mean?