20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[sovereigngrace]

The Jews have returned to the land of Israel in a state of unbelief in Jesus.

Not a biblical return then!!!

 

[Douggg]

Yes! Matthew 6:10 says, “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven”

Some Premillennialists try to employ the Lord’s prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 as support for their belief that the kingdom is to be a future physical temporal kingdom that will be set up on this sin-cursed earth for 1000 years. However, they do err in their basic understanding of the character of the kingdom AND do wrongly interpret this familiar prayer, misapplying the meaning of its wording.

Firstly, we must realise that every other request in this prayer is immediate and current in that it relates to the ‘here and now’. It is also personal and particular in that it has an intimate effect upon the actual individual making the petition. It is therefore a cohesive prayer that is totally and fully achievable in the life of the disciple making it. This prayer in full is therefore evidently answerable and realisable to the child of God in this life.

· “Give us this day our daily bread” (v11).
· “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors” (v12).
· “Lead us not into temptation” (v13).
· “Deliver us from evil” (v13).

There is no contextual warrant then to divorce “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” from the undoubted harmony and overall make-up of the rest of the prayer. Unfortunately, some premillennialists manipulate the passage to make it sound as if it reads ‘Thy kingdom come…in earth, as it is in heaven’ thus conveniently omitting or glossing over the inspired and vital words “Thy will be done” as if they are not in it. The passages reads:

· “Thy kingdom come” (v10a).
· “Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” (v10b).

It is thus a harmonious interrelated petition which is fully realized in the life of the Church generally and the believer individually in which they see the will of God manifested and performed on this earth “as it is in heaven.” It is also a request to see the Kingdom of God (which is everywhere else described as a spiritual eternal kingdom) manifested in and through the believers’ life experientially. It is NOT a detached distant request to see a future temporal earthly millennial kingdom manifested after Christ’s Second Coming.

N. T. Wright writes in The Lord’s Prayer as a Paradigm of Christian Prayer: “The presence of the kingdom meant that God’s anointed Messiah was here and was at work — that he was, in fact, accomplishing, as events soon to take place would show, the sovereign and saving rule of God. The future of the kingdom was the time when justice and peace would embrace one another and the whole world — the time from which perspective one could look back and see that the work had, indeed, begun with the presence and work of the anointed leader.”

“To pray ‘your kingdom come’ at Jesus’ bidding, therefore, meant to align oneself with his kingdom movement and to seek God’s power in furthering its ultimate fulfillment. It meant adding one’s own prayer to the total performance of Jesus’ agenda. It meant celebrating in the presence of God the fact that the kingdom was already breaking in, and looking eagerly for its consummation. From the centrality of the kingdom in his public proclamation and the centrality of prayer in his private practice, we must conclude that this kingdom prayer grew directly out of and echoed Jesus’ own regular praying.”

This is simply an individual’s petition. The kingdom God can be manifested through us as individuals because the kingdom of God is within. I see this as a request for the power of God to be displayed through us – nothing more, nothing less.

The simple import of this much-misinterpreted aspect of this prayer is that God would make His Kingdom manifest in all its power and glory in the life of the supplicant and that God’s Sovereign will would be manifested on this earth as in heaven through His praying people. In fact, the parallel reading in Luke 11:2 declares, “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.”

The Greek tense in both texts reinforces the fact that this relates to the ongoing manifestation of the kingdom on this earth. It is written in the aorist active imperative – in the present tense. So it cannot just be limited to a future happening but rather a continuous progression.

This thinking simply emanates out of a flawed notion of the kingdom; a view nowhere expounded by Christ in Scripture. In fact, the part of this petition that some Bible students selectively use in support of the idea of a literal thousand-year reign on earth after the second coming of Christ, simply says, “Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.” Thus, fitting in beautifully with the immediate nature of the overall prayer petition and its personal significance to the one making the petition.

Entering in to that spiritual kingdom in this life brings an immediate realisation in the ‘here and now’ and on this earth of true “righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost” (Romans 14:17) and is decisively personal to the recipient. Many Premillennialists, every time they see the term kingdom, automatically think ‘future, temporal and visible’ whereas the kingdom exists NOW and is current, eternal and spiritual. During His earthly ministry, Christ addressed the fallacy of a literal earthly kingdom, saying, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation” (Luke 17:20).

The subject of Christ’s (example) prayer and the specific reference to “kingdom” in that prayer relates to the same spiritual kingdom about which He continually referred to in His earthly ministry.

That kingdom was not physical as many Jews envisaged but spiritual. It could only be entered in spiritually through the Christian new birth.

When we pray “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” we are praying that “righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost” would be manifested in us and around us; that God would be given His place and that unrighteousness would be banished. When we pray “Thy kingdom come” we are praying for heaven to come down in supernatural power in our midst – just like at Pentecost. This is a petition for the glory of God to be seen in our world.

When Amil incorporates the Lord's prayer into their daily prayer, they are doing what Jesus said in Luke 21:34-36, pray always, to escape the time of extreme trouble that will come upon the world like a snare, to stand before the Son of Man in heaven - but don't believe in a pre-(great) tribulation rapture to heaven?

Is the Amil's answer that all Christians will suddenly drop dead?

 

[Douggg]

Yes they are!

Are people who reject Christ God's chosen people?

That does not mean they are saved - until they embrace Jesus.

 

[sovereigngrace]

That does not mean they are saved - until the embrace Jesus.

Are people who reject Christ God's chosen people?

 

[Douggg]

Are people who reject Christ God's chosen people?

Israel, the Jews, are God's chosen people because God has attached His good, righteous, and true, Holy Name to Israel and the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:

6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

They are not yet saved though at the time of Gog/Magog attack.

What makes you saved and have eternal life? It is because Jesus has attached His name to you when you embraced Him as your Savior.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Israel, the Jews, are God's chosen people because God has attached His good, righteous, and true, Holy Name to Israel and the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:

6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

It is time to move into the NT. The old covenant is gone forever. It is not the Jewish nation that matters. It is all about sinners in all nations under the new covenant. There is neither Jew nor Gentile today. There is no favoritism when it comes to color and races today. The old covenant is gone forever.

Current ethnic Israel is apostate and under the wrath of God. Like every other antichrist nation, they are of their father the devil.

 

[Douggg]

Current ethnic Israel is apostate and under the wrath of God. Like every other antichrist nation, they are of their father the devil.

The Jews, Israel, are not under the wrath of God, but God's long suffering patience that no man should perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[jgr]

No, the Jews of today have not been plotting to kill Jesus. What you are trying to do is make the Jews of today - into the Pharisees. One of the reasons you are do that is upon the church has become Israel and Christians spiritual Jews.

Your logic is flawed. As well as, your eschatology.

Provide names, sources, and dates of recognized Jews by religion today who have publicly declared that the Pharisees' actions against Jesus were wrong.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The Jews, Israel, are not under the wrath of God, but God's long suffering patience that no man should perish, but have everlasting life.

Israel is no different to any other nation today. Her previous favored place was done away with 2000 years ago, after her rejection of Christ and the introduction of the new covenant - that is focused on all nations equally. Look at Israel's history and your will quickly see that. They are under judgment.

The blessing God promised in Abraham is found exclusively in Jesus Christ and what He secured for sinful man at Calvary. He is the realization of every single Old Testament covenant. God’s covenant with Abraham is to his seed (singular) not to his seeds (plural). And the singular seed of Abraham to whom the promises to Abraham pertain is Christ. The spiritual seed of Abraham is found solely today within the Church of Jesus Christ. This is all that matters, as racial birth or appearance carry no favor with God. It is they alone that are “blessed” and are now part of the eternal “promises made.”

Whilst God’s blessing would be upon Abraham’s seed it would not be because of natural pedigree but for spiritual pedigree. This is emphasized by that Hebrew of the Hebrews Paul the Apostle in Romans 9:6-8, when he explained: “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Abraham had a natural lineage and also a spiritual lineage. Significantly it was only the spiritual lineage that carried any eternal worth. Paul distinguished here between faithful Israel and biological Israel. The apostle makes a clear contrast between those who are “the children of the flesh” and those who are “the children of promise.” He shows us that these are two different diverse peoples. In doing this he is attempting to illustrate the impotence of the natural and the potency of the spiritual. He shows that “the children of the flesh” are not “the children of God,” but “the children of the promise.” Natural race carries no special favour. Paul is demonstrating that it is “the children of the promise” that “are counted for the seed.” This spiritual company are the ones that really matter.

Some would try and restrict this reference to “the children of the promise” exclusively to natural Jews. But this would be an error. Whilst Abraham’s “children of the flesh” refers exclusively to natural Jews, the allusion to Abraham’s “children of the promise” undoubtedly embraces a spiritual people of all nationalities. After all, Paul is confirming who “the children of God” are here. He is establishing who the real children of Abraham are. He concludes: “the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” It would be exegetically wrong here, and contrary to repeated Scripture, to limit this discussion to natural Jews – saved and unsaved. The reason being Paul is showing us who the spiritual children of Abraham really are. Whoever they are Paul says that they are “counted for the seed.”

Those who have come to Christ by simple faith are here identified as the true children of Abraham. Repeated New Testament Scripture teaches us that the intention of the Abrahamic Covenant from the very beginning was that all nations would be blessed in Christ.

 

[jgr]

The Jews, Israel, are not under the wrath of God, but God's long suffering patience that no man should perish, but have everlasting life.

Since you invariably forget who Jews by physical DNA are, below is the little reminder.

You're a Jew by physical DNA, I'm a Jew by physical DNA, all of humanity are Jews by physical DNA.

About which, God is interested not one whit.

Spiritual DNA.

Two genes.

Faith and obedience.

No others.

The only DNA that God is interested in.

Example of the mathematical proof of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

 

[Douggg]

You're a Jew by physical DNA, I'm a Jew by physical DNA, all of humanity are Jews by physical DNA.

Then who are the heathen by physical DNA ?

 

[Douggg]

Israel is no different to any other nation today. Her previous favored place was done away with 2000 years ago, after her rejection of Christ and the introduction of the new covenant - that is focused on all nations equally. Look at Israel's history and your will quickly see that. They are under judgment.

The blessing God promised in Abraham is found exclusively in Jesus Christ and what He secured for sinful man at Calvary. He is the realization of every single Old Testament covenant. God’s covenant with Abraham is to his seed (singular) not to his seeds (plural). And the singular seed of Abraham to whom the promises to Abraham pertain is Christ. The spiritual seed of Abraham is found solely today within the Church of Jesus Christ. This is all that matters, as racial birth or appearance carry no favor with God. It is they alone that are “blessed” and are now part of the eternal “promises made.”

Whilst God’s blessing would be upon Abraham’s seed it would not be because of natural pedigree but for spiritual pedigree. This is emphasized by that Hebrew of the Hebrews Paul the Apostle in Romans 9:6-8, when he explained: “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Abraham had a natural lineage and also a spiritual lineage. Significantly it was only the spiritual lineage that carried any eternal worth. Paul distinguished here between faithful Israel and biological Israel. The apostle makes a clear contrast between those who are “the children of the flesh” and those who are “the children of promise.” He shows us that these are two different diverse peoples. In doing this he is attempting to illustrate the impotence of the natural and the potency of the spiritual. He shows that “the children of the flesh” are not “the children of God,” but “the children of the promise.” Natural race carries no special favour. Paul is demonstrating that it is “the children of the promise” that “are counted for the seed.” This spiritual company are the ones that really matter.

Some would try and restrict this reference to “the children of the promise” exclusively to natural Jews. But this would be an error. Whilst Abraham’s “children of the flesh” refers exclusively to natural Jews, the allusion to Abraham’s “children of the promise” undoubtedly embraces a spiritual people of all nationalities. After all, Paul is confirming who “the children of God” are here. He is establishing who the real children of Abraham are. He concludes: “the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” It would be exegetically wrong here, and contrary to repeated Scripture, to limit this discussion to natural Jews – saved and unsaved. The reason being Paul is showing us who the spiritual children of Abraham really are. Whoever they are Paul says that they are “counted for the seed.”

Those who have come to Christ by simple faith are here identified as the true children of Abraham. Repeated New Testament Scripture teaches us that the intention of the Abrahamic Covenant from the very beginning was that all nations would be blessed in Christ.

Jacob was renamed Israel, not Abraham.

 

[jgr]

Then who are the heathen by physical DNA ?

Define "heathen".

 

[sovereigngrace]

Jacob was renamed Israel, not Abraham.

Abram was renamed Abraham. He is the father of the faith, not Jacob. What has that to do with the evidence you avoided? This is a notable Premil trait. There is so much evidence on this thread that forbids your teaching being ducked around by Premils, it is not funny.

 

[Douggg]

Abram was renamed Abraham. He is the father of the faith, not Jacob. What has that to do with the evidence you avoided? This is a notable Premil trait. There is so much evidence on this thread that forbids your teaching being ducked around by Premils, it is not funny.

We were discussing Israel, the Jews, not Abraham.

 

[Douggg]

Define "heathen".

What is the Amil definition of heathen?

 

[jgr]

What is the Amil definition of heathen?

You used the term first. Give your definition, then I'll give mine.

 

[Douggg]

You used the term first. Give your definition, then I'll give mine.

You wrote...

You're a Jew by physical DNA, I'm a Jew by physical DNA, all of humanity are Jews by physical DNA.


The question was who are the heathen by physical DNA?

 

[jgr]

You wrote...

You're a Jew by physical DNA, I'm a Jew by physical DNA, all of humanity are Jews by physical DNA.


The question was who are the heathen by physical DNA?

"Heathen" did not appear in my post. You used it first.

Give your definition, then I'll give mine.

 

[sovereigngrace]

We were discussing Israel, the Jews, not Abraham.

The Lord frequently called out the spiritual impotence of national Israel by way of symbol and by way of a parable. In Luke 13:6-9 He used the fig tree to symbolize natural Israel’s demise. He taught: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.”

Contained within these comments was proof that major change was coming. Here Christ is speaking of Israel’s lack of fruitlessness as a fig tree. He presents this as the reason why the fig tree must be cut down. Here, He is referring to how the nation generally rebelled against His message of salvation and hence brought forth no fruit acceptable unto God. That ministry lasted 3 ½ years on this earth and culminated in the Jews crucifying the Messiah. In the parable Christ refers to the length of His ministry.

On the day after His triumphant entry into Jerusalem, many of the citizens of Jerusalem heralded Him, saying, “Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest” (Mark 11:9-11).

But the text continues in Mark 11:13-14, “seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever.”

Did Christ curse this fig tree simply to prove His deity? Did He do it for no obvious reason? Or was He impressing some great spiritual truth upon His disciples in regard to natural Israel?

Jesus did nothing without a purpose. This was not some pointless irrelevant act to prove Christ’s deity or omnipotence; it was an object lesson in regard to Israel. The fig tree symbolically represents the physical nation of Israel whereas the olive tree represents the spiritual people of Israel. When Christ cursed the fig tree He was demonstrating the removing of the exclusive theocratic favor of God from the physical nation of Israel, whereas, the olive tree will exist forever. Years of abusing God’s favor, years of successive misrule among the national judges and kings, and the spiritual leaders, especially among the priests, and ongoing idolatry and stubborn rebellion among the people, finally brought the theocratic reign to an end. Never again will God’s favor be restricted to a genetic interim earthly nation, but rather to a spiritual eternal heavenly nation.

Verse 12-14 records, in the NKJV: “Now the next day, when they had come out from Bethany, He was hungry. And seeing from afar a fig tree having leaves, He went to see if perhaps He would find something on it. When He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. In response Jesus said to it, ‘Let no one eat fruit from you ever again’.”

The old covenant theocracy was gone forever. After this, the Lord significantly headed straight for the very epicenter of the Jewish religion – the temple – and overturned the tables, demonstrating that He had had enough with their religious hypocrisy and stubborn rebellion.

Verse 15-17 in the KJV says, “they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

The favor of God was never intended to be limited to one nation. It was always God’s plan to reach the nations. This was the great turning point in history where kingdom blessing was transferred from the physical entity of natural Israel to the spiritual entity of the New Testament Church. With the introduction of the new covenant arrangement that move occurred. His house would no longer be considered a physical house in Jerusalem, but rather a spiritual house that would be a home throughout “all nations.”

The arrival of the new covenant arrangement, and the broadening out of the people of God, coincided with the removal of the old covenant apparatus. This was Jesus revealing His heart and plan for a fallen world.

Dispensationalists frequently argue that “this teaching misrepresents God as one who breaks His promises.” They rationalize: “If God breaks His promises, then how is one to know His salvation is secure? How may the Church know that God will not find another people to replace it for the sins it has committed?” Or, “if God did not keep His promises to Israel 2000 years ago, how then can we be sure He will keep His word to us in the future?”