20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[keras]

The objective reader can judge for themselves. I am confident others can see your constant refusal to address the holes in your argument!

I am confident that all the false theories will be proved wrong when the end times events commence. Many people will be very embarrassed.

I've noticed that about him and others as well. I guess they just assume that you will take their word for it that the scripture passages they reference support their claims, but when you actually look at the text, it's quite clear that the passages do not support their claims at all. So, it's no wonder that they don't quote the verses and highlight which parts they think support their views.

I use scriptural support for all my posts. If I typed them out, as you like to do, they would be too long and people would just scroll over them, as I do to any posts that are just repeats of cut and paste, with lengthy Bible passages.
One problem is the different translations and the lens through which we look at what is Written.
For me; I have taken a serious look at the rapture to heaven and the AMill theories. They both fall short of proper Biblical support. Neither idea is logical or even sensible.

 

[Timtofly]

We don't claim that the word "thousand" being used figuratively in the verse referencing the cattle on a thousand hills proves that it has to be figurative in Revelation 20 as well. The point of bringing up verses like that is to show that the word thousand is sometimes used figuratively in scripture which means that can be the case for Revelation 20 as well. That's all. We certainly aren't trying to compare a thousand years directly to a thousand hills. That would be silly. So, you're completely missing the point of why we bring up verses like that.

You're missing the point that bringing up those verses does not even make sense.

 

[Timtofly]

But you do nothing to prove otherwise. Absolutely nothing. It's all your words and no scriptural support. And you try very hard to avoid valid points that are made to you. Such as the fact that Revelation 12:10 relates to Satan the accuser being cast out of heaven. Do you agree with me that him being cast out of heaven means he can't accuse believers in heaven anymore? If so, then do you think he accuses believers now, keeping in mind what Romans 8:33 says? Can you please answer this question instead of just dismissing it? By dismissing it you are coming across as if you have no answer for my question which does not help your case at all.

The casting out is the 7th Trumpet. Those angels are still bound. They have not even reached heaven yet. They are loosed from the pit at the 5th Trumpet. So until the 7th Trumpet, Satan is still the accuser of those is Christ. Of course it is just an insane act day and night. Because there is nothing to be accused of, nor anything that can accuse us. That does not mean Satan stops trying.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I am confident that all the false theories will be proved wrong when the end times events commence. Many people will be very embarrassed.

I am confident that you are wrong about that.

I use scriptural support for all my posts. If I typed them out, as you like to do, they would be too long and people would just scroll over them, as I do to any posts that are just repeats of cut and paste, with lengthy Bible passages.

If you don't quote the text and highlight the parts that you think are supporting what you're saying then how are we supposed to know why you are referencing them? We can only guess if you don't do anything to show what exactly is in the text that you think supports your claims.

One problem is the different translations and the lens through which e look at what is Written.
For me; I have taken a serious look at the rapture to heaven and the AMill theories. They both fall short of proper Biblical support. Neither idea is logical or even sensible.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if Amil is logical or sensible to you. You have a lot of views that no one else agrees with and that's telling. Amil is completely logical and sensible to me because it doesn't contradict clear passages like Matthew 13:36-43;47-50, Matthew 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, 1 Cor 15:22-23, 1 Thess 4:14-5:6, 2 Thess 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 like premil does.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You're missing the point that bringing up those verses does not even make sense.

I'm getting tired of your childish act. You offer nothing to these discussions except for snarky comments. Why are you even here?

 

[Timtofly]

No. Premils are saying that they have no corroboration anywhere in Scripture for their opinion of Revelation 20. This reinforces my claim in the Op:

(3) The detail Premil attributes to Revelation 20 compared to what the actual text explicitly says is day and night. Revelation 20 does not remotely say what Premil attribute to it. Many extravagant characteristics, events and ideas are inserted into Revelation 20 that do not exist in the said chapter.

For example:

· They argue that the old covenant arrangement will be fully restarted in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such fiction.
· Premillennialists speak about the restoration of an elevated position for ethnic Israel on their future millennial earth. But I careful study of Revelation 20 teachers no such thing.
· They insist that glorified saints and mortal sinners will interact in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such a far-fetched invention.
· They present their future millennium to be perfect pristine paradise of peace and harmony when in fact it ends up the biggest religious bust in history, as billions of wicked as the sand of the sea overrun the Premil millennium. Their age is just 'more of the same'. There is more sin and sinners, more death and disease, more war and terror, more of the devil and his demons. The idyllic setting of the lamb enjoying sweet communion with the wolf, the bullock eating straw with the lion, the little kid-goat lying peaceably beside the leopard, the cow and the bear grazing happily together is quickly broken as the slaughter truck roar up from the temple. The Zadok priests quickly jump out and drag the unsuspecting animals aboard who had been lulled into a false-sense of security by Christ’s rod of iron rule. As the truck speeds off the millennial peace and harmony is broken forever by the bloody intent of the Zadok priests. When they arrive in Jerusalem they pointlessly slit the throats of the lambs, goats and bullocks because they are somehow needed as sin offerings, even though Jesus had made the final sacrifice for sin thousands of years previous.

Sounds like two strawmen trying to see who can chase away the most birds.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 12 places the pivotal defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Here, in correlation with Revelation 20, we see the end of Satan unchallenged deceiving of the Gentiles. John declares: "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ." How?

Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished! The powerful spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles lifting the deception that kept them bound. Satan was now bound. The boot was on the other foot. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.

Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. Here is when he got his eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was the decisive blow against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was the decisive blow against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

Can you quote Scripture where Satan was unchallenged for 4000 years?

 

[Timtofly]

This illustration vividly exposes the fragility of the Premil hermeneutics. The fact that you have no valid response speaks for itself. This proves, it is Amils who are the real literalists, as the Op suggests. Premils have to amend literal timespans, change original Greek words, ignore repeated New Testament climactic Scripture, make highly symbolic passages hyper-literal and make hyper-literal passages highly symbolic, in order to let Premil fit.

You keep saying this, but no Scripture to even make a point.

 

[Timtofly]

If you don't have anything worthwhile to add to the discussion then just keep your childish comments to yourself.

It is not childish. He just gave a childish quote, if mine is. I just did not use as many words.

Is not pride what makes all he posted work? Was his post satire, or did he make it sound like that is really what premil believe?

Why not declare his post childish gibberish? Are some posters allowed to make fun of other people's beliefs and get away with it? I am not even making fun. I am pointing out the truth, just like he thinks he is pointing out the truth.

 

[DavidPT]

This illustration vividly exposes the fragility of the Premil hermeneutics. The fact that you have no valid response speaks for itself. This proves, it is Amils who are the real literalists, as the Op suggests. Premils have to amend literal timespans, change original Greek words, ignore repeated New Testament climactic Scripture, make highly symbolic passages hyper-literal and make hyper-literal passages highly symbolic, in order to let Premil fit.

That illustration proved zero since it's not even based on anything that is at least logical. Why don't you instead come up with an illustration involving time, since that's what the 70 weeks involve, and let's see if that might make the point you are trying to make?

 

[Guojing]

Am I asking too much for you to tell me how you interpret passages like Matthew 28:16-18 and Ephesians 1:19-22?

Do you think that Jesus does not currently have authority over Satan despite Him saying that He has all authority/power in heaven and in earth and despite Paul saying that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead and set Him "at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named"?

I have said to you time and time again. If Christ is reigning over the Earth now, no believer will be sick.

He has authority over Satan, no doubt, but he is letting Satan reign over this Earth for now, that is why Paul calls this a present evil world.

As I said, wait until the 2nd coming, then you will see what happens on this Earth when he reigns over it.

 

[Timtofly]

I'm getting tired of your childish act. You offer nothing to these discussions except for snarky comments. Why are you even here?

Why is trying to point out the here and now, a childish act? Amil think God's perfect Millennium has been the last 2000 years. I am here to point out, the last 2000 years is not the Lord's Day rule on earth.

The Lord has been ruling over heaven and earth since day one. There is yet to be a time when God reigns directly on earth. I think that is a clear teaching in Scripture. Jesus pointed out the Lord left the earth in the care of others, for now. Not that all authority was handed to those in charge. Now you may feel God will never rule directly, and even pass it off for a totally different reality, but John said there is still 1000 years left.

 

[jgr]

I have said to you time and time again. If Christ is reigning over the Earth now, no believer will be sick.

He has authority over Satan, no doubt, but he is letting Satan reign over this Earth for now, that is why Paul calls this a present evil world.

As I said, wait until the 2nd coming, then you will see what happens on this Earth when he reigns over it.

Paul believed that Christ was reigning as he wrote. (1 Corinthians 15:25)

So tell Paul that because he was sick, he wasn't a believer.

 

[keras]

Paul believed that Christ was reigning as he wrote. (1 Corinthians 15:25)
Tell Paul that because he was sick, he wasn't a believer.

1 Corinthians 15:25 is in the context of the Millennium. AS the context of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 prove.

Paul's 'thorn in his flesh',
This is the type of comment that wrecks your credibility and shows the paucity of the belief that we are in the Millennium, of an indeterminate duration; now.
The AMill belief is one of denial, they deny that when Jesus does physically Return, there will be an amazing time of world peace and of humans living how God always wanted us to be. For a thousand years. As the Bible does tell us will happen.

 

[jgr]

This is the type of comment that wrecks your credibility and shows the paucity of the belief that we are in the Millennium, of an indeterminate duration; now.
The AMill belief is one of denial, they deny that when Jesus does physically Return, there will be an amazing time of world peace and of humans living how God always wanted us to be. For a thousand years. As the Bible does tell us will happen.

You too can tell Paul.

Think he'll believe you?

 

[keras]

You too can tell Paul.

Think he'll believe you?

If Paul reads this thread, he will know by now to not believe the Amil theory.

 

[chad kincham]

It was not that there needed to be 6,000 years of creation. God did not punish Adam with the curse of the ground for a longer period that the 6 days of creation. Adam's descendants would not have to suffer sin, nor imperfection past 6000 years of punishment.

The only reason why many think there may not be a Millennium is that humans cannot even remember the first Millennium. The 7th day, was the first Millennium. There was no evening and morning granted to the 7th Day. Genesis 2 gives us the history of the Day Adonai created the heavens and earth. The exact same conditions Adonai will have during His Day of Righteousness. The Day that Jesus Christ will hand to God when Death is defeated.

It's amazing to me that you only allow for the possibility. The context of the verse is very clearly about spiritual healing and forgiveness.

This verse applies to what David himself experienced (see Psalm 32:3-7) and it's not implying that all believers get physically healed. Why would you place its fulfillment to a future time period when even David himself experienced what he wrote about there? Also, where does Psalm 103 say anything about Jesus ruling on the earth?

Isaiah 53:5 says by His stripes we are Rapha, defined as to be made whole.

In the New Testament we have the word sozo, which means to be made completely whole, and sozo is translated as both healed in relation to physical healing, and saved, in regard to spiritual healing of the forgiveness of sins.

In addition, Matthew 8:16-17 unequivocally links the Isaiah 53:5 Healing stripes with physical healing, by stating that when Jesus healed all who were sick, He was fulfilling what Isaiah prophesied, that Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.

The clincher in showing that His healing atonement stripes links physical healing and forgiveness of sins, is when Jesus healed a paralytic by forgiving his sins.

Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

 

[Guojing]

Paul believed that Christ was reigning as he wrote. (1 Corinthians 15:25)

So tell Paul that because he was sick, he wasn't a believer.

I already said he meant reigning in heaven.

 

[chad kincham]

Please stop derailing this thread. It is not allowed on this board. I already rebutted these claims earlier and you avoided them. I refer you back my detailed rebuttal.

I’m sorry, you’ll have to explain how my post on premillennialism in the early church is derailing the OP about premillennialism.

 

[ShineyDays2]

1 Corinthians 15:25 is in the context of the Millennium.

True, if you only see the 1,000 year millennium as figurative from the time of the cross until the last day when Christ returns at the end of this age.

1 Cor 15:24-28...24)Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25)For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26)The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27"For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. 28)When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.

• Is he presently physically reigning on earth now? No.
• Is he is not presently reigning from heaven? Yes, because verse 25 uses the present term..."For He must reign until..."
• Now if He is presently reigning from heaven, does not "reign" mean that of a King? Yes!
• If He is presently reigning from heaven as King, does not a King have subjects? Yes!
• If He is presently reigning from heaven as King who is reigning from heaven then WHO are his subjects?
• Are they not those born-again Christians who believe in the New Covenant since the only next thing to happen is the end of this age? Yes!
• What is the last enemy God will destroy? Death!
• Is there anything in the above verses that uses the term "millennium"? NO!
• Does any verse imply that there will be a "literal millennium" above? No!
• Is there any implication of there being a literal 1,000 years where Christ intends to return to a man-made temple to have sacrifices repeated either literally or as a man-made so-called "memorial." NO!