Talbott's Triad

[Dave L]

If that's your interpretation, that's fine!

Paul teaches it to the lovers of truth. Most hate it.

 

[Saint Steven]

He created all for His glory. No sin, no idea of who God is. Sin reveals his sovereignty in damning some and saving others. Mercy also. And righteousness. We cannot know God apart from the contrast sin provides.

I suppose this means that there is no reason to seek God. If he wants to save us, he knows where to find us. If he doesn't come and save us, we will "pay" eternal "consequences" for him neglecting to save us. Right?

So, God rewards those he chooses, (for what exactly?) and punishes those he doesn't choose? (for what exactly?) Which makes no sense.

 

[Saint Steven]

Paul teaches it to the lovers of truth. Most hate it.

I thought we were talking about Calvinism.
Perhaps that's a part of Calvinism. That all other positions are false.

 

[Hmm]

Paul teaches it to the lovers of truth. Most hate it.

If Calvanism is something positive to you, then you should be a Calvanist. No need to accuse others of hating truth though.

 

[Dave L]

If Calvanism is something positive to you, then you should be a Calvanist. No need to accuse others of hating truth though.

What if Calvinism is true? How many hate God and worship idols instead?

 

[Hmm]

What if Calvinism is true? How many hate God and worship idols instead?

What would it matter? We'd be predestined to either heaven or hell anyway.

 

[Dave L]

What would it matter? We'd be predestined to either heaven or hell anyway.

True.

 

[Saint Steven]

True.

Wow.
In Calvinism, everything is God's will. (because we have none)
Idolatry? (God's will) Hating God? (God's will) Murder? (God's will) Adultery? (God's will)
Correct me if I am wrong, but these seem to be valid conclusions based on the information provided. But Dave isn't talking to me. (not that I blame him)

Hmm said: ↑
What would it matter? We'd be predestined to either heaven or hell anyway.
Dave L said: ↑
What if Calvinism is true? How many hate God and worship idols instead?

 

[Saint Steven]

What if Calvinism is true?

If Calvinism is true, there is no point in seeking God.
If Calvinism is true, there is no point in heeding what the Bible says.
If Calvinism is true, God is a sadistic and cruel cosmic tyrant.
And fearing God is of no avail. Predestination is already set.
The vast majority were born to burn. The wonderful plan for creation.
Deity as pyromaniac.

 

[Albion]

So, God rewards those he chooses, (for what exactly?)

That's God's business.

and punishes those he doesn't choose? (for what exactly?)

Sin, which estranges any person from God who is perfect.

Which makes no sense.

Really??

 

[Saint Steven]

That's God's business.

Sin, which estranges any person from God who is perfect.

Really??

My comments were in reference to Calvinism.
Which states that we do NOT have a free will.

Therefore, the only will that drives us is God's will.
But, why would there be rewards, if we have no free will?
Why would there be punishment. if we have no free will?
That makes sense to you?

 

[Albion]

My comments were in reference to Calvinism.
Which states that we do NOT have a free will.

Perhaps, but I could only reply to what you wrote.

Therefore, the only will that drives us is God's will.

A shocking thought, eh? Unthinkable maybe?

But, why would there be rewards, if we have no free will?

Because the person you are referring to is one of those who has been chosen.

Why would there be punishment. if we have no free will?

We're only talking about free will with respect to choosing God, not every last thing we do in life, like choosing Coca-Cola over Pepsi.

Sin deserves punishment, just like murder deserves imprisonment in our own world. God is just as well as loving, remember.

It doesn't matter much whether a murderer says that the other person "had it coming" or that the killing was done because the victim was annoying or was of another race or had cheated the perpetrator at cards, etc. It was still murder.

That makes sense to you?

Of course.

 

[Hmm]

God is just as well as loving, remember.

It's not a dichotomy. God isn't torn between loving us and being just towards us. He's not a split personality. Love and justice aren't separate and opposing attributes of God that He has to choose between. Rather His love is just and His justice is loving. Just like a human father, when he punishes his children it's for correction and it's done in a loving way for the greater benefit of the child. No father would punish his child retributive and forever. That's what makes sense to me but perhaps you disagree - neither of us knows for sure.

 

[Albion]

It's not a dichotomy. God isn't torn between loving us and being just towards us. He's not a split personality. Love and justice aren't separate and opposing attributes of God that He has to choose between.

I don't recall that anyone said anything to that effect. So, not to worry.

 

[Hmm]

I don't recall that anyone said anything to that effect. So, not to worry.

That was the only meaning I could make of what you said.

 

[Albion]

That was the only meaning I could make of what your said.

How unfortunate, but at least you know better now.

 

[Hmm]

How unfortunate, but at least you know better now.

More confused would be more apt.

 

[hedrick]

Wow.
In Calvinism, everything is God's will. (because we have none)
Idolatry? (God's will) Hating God? (God's will) Murder? (God's will) Adultery? (God's will)
Correct me if I am wrong, but these seem to be valid conclusions based on the information provided. But Dave isn't talking to me. (not that I blame him)

Hmm said: ↑
What would it matter? We'd be predestined to either heaven or hell anyway.
Dave L said: ↑
What if Calvinism is true? How many hate God and worship idols instead?

No. Almost all Calvinists accept compatibilism. That says that responsible human choice coexists with God bring responsible for everything.

 

[Dave L]

No. Almost all Calvinists accept compatibilism. That says that responsible human choice coexists with God bring responsible for everything.

This is true, but God sends the reasons people base their choices on and thereby judges them for wanting to sin or wanting not to sin.

 

[Hmm]

This is true, but God sends the reasons people base their choices on and thereby judges them for wanting to sin or wanting not to sin.

Is any of that biblical? It's very inventive but nothing I've come across before.