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LoveGodsWord

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Non sequitur. The 10 commandments are not the Whole Law.
Not really Brian the context is to Gods' 10 commandments and all of God's 10 commandments. Your disregarding context. JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW. The context is all of God's 10 commandments
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Can you show me in Scripture where gentiles were ever given the Law at all?
Yes. According to the new covenant scriptures Gentiles who believe and follow Gods' Word are no longer gentiles of the flesh but are born again to new covenant of Israel in the Spirit.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Not at all. Please read the OP. Where is the scripture that says Sunday is the Lords day? - There is none.

There's no Scripture that says Saturday is the Lord's day, but that doesn't stop you and your fellow Sabbatarians from making that claim.

At least we have a biblical and historical reason for calling Sunday the Lord's Day. Sabbatarians don't have anything to stand on, the Holy Scriptures and the entire history of the Christian Church stands in condemnation of the Sabbatarian error.

"For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men." - 2 Timothy 3:6-9

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timothyu

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At least we have a biblical and historical reason for calling Sunday the Lord's Day. Sabbatarians don't have anything to stand on, the Holy Scriptures and the entire history of the Christian Church stands in condemnation of the Sabbatarian error.
Would the Jews agree they have it wrong?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Would the Jews agree they have it wrong?

Judaism has nothing to say about Jesus Christ, rendering the question meaningless.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There's no Scripture that says Saturday is the Lord's day, but that doesn't stop you and your fellow Sabbatarians from making that claim.
That is because the Hebrew scriptures never used the term Sunday or Saturday. They counted the days as day 1 (our Sunday); day 2 (our Monday); day 3 (our Tuesday); day 4 (our Wednesday): day 5: 6. preparation before the Sabbath (day 6 Hebrew time of our Friday) and 7. Sabbath (day 7 or our Saturday). Their time also started for each day from sunset to sunset so biblical time is from the evening of the previous day to sunset of the following day. So as posted elsewhere show me the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lord's day"? There is none. There is also no scripture that says Saturday is "the Lords day" because the Hebrews did not count time this way.

As posted earlier in the Koine Greek κυριακός means pertaining to the Lord, or belonging to the Lord. In the Koine Greek Revelation 1:10, τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ (tē kyriakē hēmerathe Lord’s day”) the Greek word κυριακῇ (kyriakē), translated “Lord’s,” is a dative feminine singular adjective, agreeing in case and gender with the noun it modifies (i.e., ἡμέρᾳ [hēmera; “day”]). It comes from κυριακός (kyriakos), an adjective meaning “belonging to the Lord.” or pertaining to the Lord or something that the Lord claims ownership of. “Lord’s” is an adjective attributing a quality to the noun it modifies (i.e., “day”). The Lord’s Day, therefore, is a day belonging to Jesus Christ as Lord. The word κυριακῇ (kyriakē is not referenced anywhere to Sunday or the first day of the week in the bible. (Original source already provided)

The day that Jesus claims ownership of in His very words according to the scriptures is the Sabbath day. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day in Matthew 12:8. At the same time in the OP we examined both the old and new testament scriptures from *Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15; Exodus 20:10 that all show that the day Jesus and God claim ownership of is the Sabbath day. The OP then shows that from scripture there is no link (which you have now agreed) to "the Lords day" being Sunday. The challenged anyone to show from the scriptures alone that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". So far no one is up to the challenge because there is no scripture that says anywhere in the bible that "the Lords day is Sunday or the first day of the week.
At least we have a biblical and historical reason for calling Sunday the Lord's Day. Sabbatarians don't have anything to stand on, the Holy Scriptures and the entire history of the Christian Church stands in condemnation of the Sabbatarian error.
You have no biblical proof that "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. That is the challenge of this OP and not one scripture has been provided to support that claim. It is true latter after the book of Revelation was written by John the term "the Lords day" came to be known as Sunday or the first day of the week in the church. This however is not proof that "the Lords day" as applied to scripture is proof that the "Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 means Sunday or the first day of the week because there is no scripture in all the bible that links Revelation 1:10 to Sunday or the first day of the week. We should also remember the scriptures from Paul, Peter and Jesus that state false teachers were entering the church after the departing of Paul who where even present in His day. So to seek to find the truth of God's Word outside of the scriptures is a step in the wrong direction in my view. So to make claims here that the Lords day is Sunday or the first day of the week when this claim is not supported in scripture and at best is a man-made teaching and tradition found outside of the bible and unsupported by scripture when the OP provides scripture demonstrating what the Lords day in the very words of Jesus and God in Matthew 12:8 and else where is simply a false statement.
"For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men." - 2 Timothy 3:6-9 -CryptoLutheran
Good scripture. Now where is your biblical support that says "the Lords day" is the first day of the week? There is none. Therefore all you have is the teachings and traditions of men outside of the bible that is not supported by scripture. There is only one definition of truth in the scriptures and that is Gods' Word (John 17:17) and you have none to support your view in regards to "the Lords day" now do you. So according to 2 Timothy 3:6-9 "Those who oppose the truth" are simply those who oppose Gods' Word.

Take Care.
 
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swordsman1

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The section I highlighted in red that you had highlighted but did not understand is not the Koine Greek but modern Greek application and meaning of κυριακός 4th Century AD. Lets look at the highlighted section here in detail.

certainly Sunday (so in Mod. Gk., and cp. POxy 3407 [IV A.D.])

This section you highlighted here is in reference to the historical application of "the Lords day" to Sunday in the Mod. Grk. that is the meaning here is the abbreviation to modern Greek some time latter after Revelation 1:10 was written in the Koine Greek. It is not the meaning of the original Koine Greek where the primary meaning of the Koine Greek is pertaining to the Lord or belonging to the Lord. Now where you see POxy 3407 IV A.D, in brackets after Sunday, this is in reference to the historical applications of "the Lords day" in the early Church found in POxy 3407 documents up to 4th Century A.D (POxy 3407. Didymas 14:1; Ignatius, Magnus 9:1; Apocrypha Gospel of Peter 12:50 ; The Bible Knowledge Background: Johns Gospel Hebrews-Revelation; pg 353).

I'm afraid you are wrong. It is you that has misread BDAG, not me. Let me show you by looking at the entry for the phrase again...

κ. ἡμέρα the Lord’s day (Kephal. I 192, 1; 193, 31; ὁ μὲν τέλειος … ἀεὶ ἄγει κ. ἡμέρας Orig, C. Cels. 8, 22, 6) i.e. certainly Sunday (so in Mod. Gk., and cp. POxy 3407 [IV a.d.]) Rv 1:10 (WStott, NTS 12, ’65, 70–75).​

The word Sunday here is not the translation of the modern Greek word. Translations are always and only in italics. If you had read the Foreward of BDAG you would have known this. So in this instance the Lord’s day is the literal translation of κυριακός ἡμέρας . Next follows the list of Hellenistic literature in which the word occurs (in brackets). Then, "i.e. certainly Sunday" is in normal typeface - it is a note to accompany the preceding translation, not an additional translation. What then follows in brackets are addition examples of the word in later literature, the modern Greek and the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. So according to BDAG, κυριακός ἡμέρας is without doubt a reference to Sunday.

This can be confirmed by looking at the entry for 'day' (ἡμέρα) in BDAG (highlighted in blue)....

ἡμέρα, ας, ἡ (Hom.+; loanw. in rabb.)
① the period betw. sunrise and sunset, day
...
ⓓ Of festive days: ἡ ἡμέρα τῶν σαββάτων (σάββατον 1bβ) or τοῦ σαββάτου (σάββ. 1a) Lk 4:16; 13:14b, 16; J 19:31; Ac 13:14 (Just., D. 27, 5). ἡ ἡμέρα or αἱ ἡμέραι τ. ἀζύμων Lk 22:7; Ac 12:3; 20:6. ἡ ἡμέρα τ. πεντηκοστῆς Ac 2:1; 20:16. μεγάλη ἡμέρα the great day (of atonement) PtK 2 p. 14, 29. In gen. of a Judean festival GJs 1:2; 2:2 (the author no longer has a clear understanding of the precise festival signified by the term; s. Amann and deStrycker on 1:2). ἡ κυριακὴ ἡμέρα the Lord’s Day, Sunday Rv 1:10 (cp. Just. A I, 67, 7 τὴν … τοῦ ἡλίου ἡμέραν).


Hope that helps.
 
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timothyu

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A holy day in observance of the most significant event in the history of the universe
Significant to man perhaps but the real event will be as Jesus taught, the return of the Father among us. Time to focus on the main event
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I'm afraid you are wrong. It is you that has misread BDAG, not me. Let me show you by looking at the entry for the phrase again...

κ. ἡμέρα the Lord’s day (Kephal. I 192, 1; 193, 31; ὁ μὲν τέλειος … ἀεὶ ἄγει κ. ἡμέρας Orig, C. Cels. 8, 22, 6) i.e. certainly Sunday (so in Mod. Gk., and cp. POxy 3407 [IV a.d.]) Rv 1:10 (WStott, NTS 12, ’65, 70–75).​

The word Sunday here is not the translation of the modern Greek word. Translations are always and only in italics. If you had read the Foreward of BDAG you would have known this. So in this instance the Lord’s day is the literal translation of κυριακός ἡμέρας . Next follows the list of Hellenistic literature in which the word occurs (in brackets). Then, "i.e. certainly Sunday" is in normal typeface - it is a note to accompany the preceding translation, not an additional translation. What then follows in brackets are addition examples of the word in later literature, the modern Greek and the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. So according to BDAG, κυριακός ἡμέρας is without doubt a reference to Sunday.

This can be confirmed by looking at the entry for 'day' (ἡμέρα) in BDAG (highlighted in blue)....

ἡμέρα, ας, ἡ (Hom.+; loanw. in rabb.)
① the period betw. sunrise and sunset, day
...
ⓓ Of festive days: ἡ ἡμέρα τῶν σαββάτων (σάββατον 1bβ) or τοῦ σαββάτου (σάββ. 1a) Lk 4:16; 13:14b, 16; J 19:31; Ac 13:14 (Just., D. 27, 5). ἡ ἡμέρα or αἱ ἡμέραι τ. ἀζύμων Lk 22:7; Ac 12:3; 20:6. ἡ ἡμέρα τ. πεντηκοστῆς Ac 2:1; 20:16. μεγάλη ἡμέρα the great day (of atonement) PtK 2 p. 14, 29. In gen. of a Judean festival GJs 1:2; 2:2 (the author no longer has a clear understanding of the precise festival signified by the term; s. Amann and deStrycker on 1:2). ἡ κυριακὴ ἡμέρα the Lord’s Day, Sunday Rv 1:10 (cp. Just. A I, 67, 7 τὴν … τοῦ ἡλίου ἡμέραν).


Hope that helps.

Not really. Your simply repeated yourself without addressing anything in the post you are quoting from. While at the same time anything new you have added here does not support your claims that κυριακὴ ἡμέρα means Sunday. If what you claimed is true you should be able to find me scripture the references κυριακὴ ἡμέρα to Sunday. You have none and I posted to you in the post you are quoting from

κυριακός, ή, όν (s. κύριος) pert. to belonging to the Lord, the Lord’s (oft. in ins [since 68 A.D.: OGI 669, 13; 18]

From BDAG here is the primary meaning of κυριακός, the section in brackets here the OGI 669. 13; 18 is in reference to the original Greek manuscripts where the translations in bold have come from which means belonging to the Lord or pertaining to the Lord.

The section you highlighted earlier...

i.e. certainly Sunday (so in Mod. Gk., and cp. POxy 3407 [IV A.D.])

Is in reference to the historical usage of "the Lords day" to Sunday. For Example the section that says Mod. Grk. is an abbreviation to modern Greek some time latter after Revelation 1:10 was written in the Koine Greek. It is not the meaning of the original Koine Greek where the primary meaning of the Koine Greek is pertaining to the Lord or belonging to the Lord. Now where you see POxy 3407 IV A.D, in brackets after Sunday, this is in reference to the usage of "the Lords day" in the early Church found in POxy 3407 documents up to 4th Century A.D (POxy 3407. Didymas 14:1; Ignatius, Magnus 9:1; Apocrypha Gospel of Peter 12:50 ; The Bible Knowledge Background: Johns Gospel Hebrews-Revelation; pg 353).

Let's drive it home. Find me a single scripture in all of the bible (Koine Greek) that says Sunday means κυριακός, which means pertaining to or belonging to the Lord. - There is none. Therefore your misreading BDAG!

Lets talk more when have scripture to share showing "the Lords day" is the first day of the week or you can correctly read a Lexicon. Please see post #481 linked that shows why your claims and teachings here are not biblical. Of course we will agree to disagree because for me only Gods' Word is true and you have not provided any to support your teachings.

Take Care.
 
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Servus

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This is another of those "the Resurrection wasn't all that big a deal" things again, isn't it? That's why y'all rail against Pascha, innit? A holy day in observance of the most significant event in the history of the universe is "pagan", as is calling the day of the week when our Lord arose "the Lord's Day". That smacks of wanting That Old Time Religion back, sacrificing cows keeping Shabbos.

I noticed what seemed like an aversion to the Resurrection.
 
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swordsman1

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Not really. Your simply repeated yourself without addressing anything in the post you are quoting from. Lets talk more when have scripture to share showing "the Lords day" is the first day of the week or you can correctly read a Lexicon. Please see post #481 linked that shows why your claims and teachings here are not biblical. Of course we will agree to disagree because for me only Gods' Word is true and you have not provided any to support your teachings.

Take Care.

Sorry but you have been proved wrong. You asked whether any lexicon says κυριακή ημέρα means Sunday. And yes, as I have shown, the most respected lexicon in the world says exactly that.

ἡ κυριακὴ ἡμέρα the Lord’s Day, Sunday Rv 1:10 (cp. Just. A I, 67, 7 τὴν … τοῦ ἡλίου ἡμέραν).
 
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swordsman1

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Actually no. Both post #481 linked and post # 502 linked proves it is you that is wrong. That is why your not able to address it as it show your trying to apply Modern Greek application of κυριακὴ ἡμέρα (the Lords day) to Koine Greek which means Pertaining to or belonging to the Lord. That is a day belonging to the Lord that the Lord claims ownership of. There is no scripture that says Sunday is "the Lords day" so it is impossible that Revelation 1:10 means Sunday in the original Koine Greek to κυριακὴ ἡμέρα which is translated correctly as "the Lords day" and not Sunday in the modern Greek.

This only supports what I said to you in the post you are quoting from earlier. Did you read it? This is after the book of Revelation was written.

certainly Sunday (so in Mod. Gk., and cp. POxy 3407 [IV A.D.])

This section you highlighted here is in reference to the historical application of "the Lords day" to Sunday in the Mod. Grk. that is the meaning here is the abbreviation to modern Greek some time latter after Revelation 1:10 was written in the Koine Greek. It is not the meaning of the original Koine Greek where the primary meaning of the Koine Greek is pertaining to the Lord or belonging to the Lord. Now where you see POxy 3407 IV A.D, in brackets after Sunday, this is in reference to the historical applications of "the Lords day" in the early Church found in POxy 3407 documents up to 4th Century A.D (POxy 3407. Didymas 14:1; Ignatius, Magnus 9:1; Apocrypha Gospel of Peter 12:50 ; The Bible Knowledge Background: Johns Gospel Hebrews-Revelation; pg 353).

Your mistake here is trying to apply modern day Greek and application to biblical Koine Greek where Sunday is never mentioned in the bible or was it ever a part in the Jewish days of reckoning. What your claiming is that every bible translation got κυριακὴ ἡμέρα which is translated as "the Lords day" got it wrong.

Hope this is helpful

You haven't read my post #498 properly. Read it again carefully. It will explain where you went wrong.

You have a copy of BDAG, so if you want further proof look up ἡμέρα (day) and read section
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Look let's keep this simple. Go to you own copy of BDAG. Look up the entry for ἡμέρα (day) section ⓓ and post it here.
I explained it simply in the post you are quoting from. Your claiming every bible translation is wrong by claiming that the biblical Koine Greek meaning of κυριακὴ ἡμέρα (the Lords day) is not correct and it means Sunday. I even pointed to the sections within BDAG that prove what I am showing you is correct and where your mistake is. I do not know what else to say to you except we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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swordsman1

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I explained it simply in the post you are quoting from. Your claiming every bible translation is wrong by claiming that the biblical Koine Greek meaning of κυριακὴ ἡμέρα (the Lords day) is not correct and it means Sunday. I even pointed to the sections within BDAG that prove what I am showing you is correct. I do not know what else to say to you except we will have to agree to disagree.

Why can't you do my simple request? It is easy enough. Go to you own copy of BDAG. Look up the entry for ἡμέρα (day) section ⓓ and post it here.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why can't you do my simple request? It is easy enough. Go to you own copy of BDAG. Look up the entry for ἡμέρα (day) section ⓓ and post it here.
Because the only way you can prove that Sunday is "the Lords day" is to prove it from scripture and there is none. All you have to prove it is the teachings and traditions of men outside of the bible that is not the bible. The original Greek in all bible translation of κυριακῇ ἡμέρα, translated as the Lord's day not Sunday as Sunday was never used in Hebrew culture.
 
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ViaCrucis

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But plenty to say on the Sabbath,.

In that case, they're quite right about the Sabbath: it was given exclusively to them, and no one else.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timothyu

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In that case, they're quite right about the Sabbath: it was given exclusively to them, and no one else.
Perhaps the information was but the 12 tribes didn't exist at the time. This would have been pre-Noah.
 
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