Why did the Lord come to the earth?

[Guojing]

I wasn’t aware that Covenant Theology was the accepted theology of the general theology forum. That’s denomination specific and could only be deemed as authoritative teaching in said forum. That’s in violation of forum rules.

Covenant Theology, like dispensationalism, is a framework some people use for bible interpretation.

Neither would be considered a denomination.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

So you believe his first coming was also for the gentiles?

I can’t answer that since your question shows me that our minds are not on the same page. Or the same world for that matter.

We will just have to accept that we live in different realities and be friends anyway.

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I accept the fact that I’m the oddball here.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Jesus said it, take it up with him.

[A ransom purchases one's freedom from captivity.
Mankind is captive to the wrath (Romans 5:9) and condemnation of God (Romans 5:18) for their sin.
Sin is an offence against the law of the Almighty God of the Universe, for which law breaking there is penalty--everlasting separation from God in the "second death."
The penalty is paid for all those who choose to apply it--by faith in the person and atoning death (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin with its penalty, giving them right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous, penalty paid.

So. . .who demanded the ransom: the law of God.

What was the purpose of the ransom: to buy back one's freedom from the sentence of captivity to the second death.

The many--those who apply the payment to their penalty for sin--are freed from the captivity of the second death.]

Oh my.

So very sad.

What a horrible god you have.

I like mine much better.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

The grammar of Galatians 2:7-9 is not that difficult to understand, unless maybe English is your third language.

It's not two different gospels, it's two different missions of the one gospel.
Paul was to take the one gospel to the Gentiles, and Peter was to take the same gospel to the Jews.

This dividing things which are the same into two things erroneously claimed to be different is standard dispensational methodology, and contrary to authoritative NT teaching.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I now know all I need to.

 

[Guojing]

I can’t answer that since your question shows me that our minds are not on the same page. Or the same world for that matter.

We will just have to accept that we live in different realities and be friends anyway.

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I accept the fact that I’m the oddball here.

Didn't you answer my question with a No?

Thanks for the question, Guojing.

I am happy to answer you.

He was not. In general.

If you don't think he was only sent to the nation Israel in his first coming, it must follow Jesus was also sent to the gentiles then correct?

 

[.Jeremiah.]

The wrath of God is his punishment of sin; i.e., everlasting separation from and disfavor of him.

You are right

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Didn't you answer my question with a No?



If you don't think he was only sent to the nation Israel in his first coming, it must follow Jesus was also sent to the gentiles then correct?

If you say so

You are right

 

[Guojing]

If you say so

You are right

I was clarifying whether that was what you meant when you answered with a No.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

I was clarifying whether that was what you meant when you answered with a No.

Ah. I think I got a bit lost in the conversation.

Sorry about that.

I just scrolled back to try to figure out my problem.

I think I answered your question.

I am happy to give you my thoughts whenever you ask.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Paul said he did (Galatians 1:6-9).

Actually, the notion you just stated is one of the most twisted and destroying of all.
True knowledge of God is in his revelation of himself in the God-breathed Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16), and not in our own subjective notions of him.

You are right.

 

[Clare73]

Oh my.

So very sad.

What a horrible god you have.

I like mine much better.

Now, all he has to do is exist.

What is your authority for the existence of your God?

 

[Clare73]

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I now know all I need to.

You learn quickly. . .I wish everyone did.

 

[Clare73]

You are right

So I'm right about a horrible God?

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Now, all he has to do is exist.

What is your authority for the existence of your God?

That is a wonderful question you ask.

I never thought about that.

At first thought, I would start off by saying the Bible. Pretty good authority since the Bible IS God, imo.
I am sure that the existence of God can be seen in examining our world. To me, I ask, how could this wondrous universe NOT come from God?

 

[.Jeremiah.]

You learn quickly. . .I wish everyone did.

Thank you.
I try.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

So I'm right about a horrible God?

Sorry, we have so many threads going between us, I am lost what I was referring to.

But I can assure you that it would not have been that.

I hope.

 

[Marumorose]

Please don’t get offended from my post here.

My goal is to learn. I am quite new to Christianity and still learning.

My problem is possibly that I have a deep thirst to learn more about the Lord. All the time. I study the Bible virtually every day.

Today, during my study, something new came to me. Oddly, a concept that was causing me some mental anguish was relieved when reading a chapter in Zechariah. I surely wasn’t expecting it, but it led me into a further search. I decided to put my findings into words and post it here. I am seeking constructive comments and guidance.

Personally, I focus primarily on the OT, and heavily on the gospels, particularly the words of Jesus. If you have information to assist me, please use those portions of our beautiful Bible. Thanks to all.


So here we go:


It doesn’t seem to make sense that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.


Let’s examine this concept from statements in the gospels which give us information relative to the life of Jesus. I will considerably simplify this for brevity.


Jesus was born.


At age 12, he visits the temple.


He is a carpenter until age 30.


When he was around 30 years old, he is baptized and begins a ministry.


From this point until his day of crucifixion he traveled around Judea; enlisted some followers, performed miracles, taught the people, schooled the pharisees, and had a few temptations.


Let’s now focus on the final day.


It appears that some people think that Jesus’ purpose was to die on a cross for the sins of some people. Let’s examine this claim.


First, it must be that the Lord came to the earth for some purpose.

Unless there is a purpose, why do anything?

We probably all agree that the Lord had a purpose, but what is that purpose?

After the arrival on earth, the Lord proceeded to exercise various means available to him to reach his intended result.

And when the result occurs, following his purpose, then the purpose has been completed, or finished.


Matthew 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


(The law and prophets are the Christian Old Testament.)

Which are the ONLY scriptures that Jesus ever spoke of.


From the above, it appears that we can see the purpose.

His purpose was stated by the Lord himself, so hopefully, we cannot disagree.


Now, what exactly MUST be fulfilled? Is it a few select verses here and there?


John 5:39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The Lord himself again tells us the answer. ALL the scriptures testify of him, then all must be fulfilled. What are these scriptures he speaks about? Most people would probably conclude that they are what Christians refer to as the Old Testament. That’s it.


The life of Jesus and his work are spoken of throughout the Scriptures, there is no doubt.


So the purpose of the Lord, fulfilling the scriptures, would be his ‘enactment’ of all events in those scriptures. When is this purpose, then, completed?


Many times in the gospels the Lord speaks about fulfilling the scriptures. The night before his death, he chastened Peter, after Peter cut an ear off a servant:


Matthew 26:52-54 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


The final time on the cross:


John 19:24 24. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.


And it continues:


John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.


We see that the purpose that the Lord came for was accomplished.


After being accomplished, Jesus spoke his final words:


John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


“It is finished”.


His final words tell us that his purpose was finished.


Nothing else to do, so Jesus “gave up the ghost”


He gave his own life, no one on earth took it.


He had accomplished his purpose.


The death of the empty body hanging on the cross came AFTER his purpose was finished.


It appears that the death is merely the end of the earthly body, since the purpose of Jesus was accomplished by the spirit within, which was released by him just before his death.

God bless you if you made it through that long post of mine.

To answer your question, Why did Jesus Christ come into the world?
Answer: So that we can go to heaven. The only way to make it to heaven was through his blood because we were not worthy to make it to heaven.
Jesus Christ is the creator of everything and we were made in his image. We are all in him
In the old testament, they made sacrifices for the forgiveness of the sins of the physical body and not the spiritual body.
So Jesus Christ sacrificed himself so that our spiritual bodies can be forgiven and not die and we can be able to go to heaven and be with him. God Bless

 

[Ligurian]

I must agree with Ligurian; you MUST keep his commandments, or you don’t love him. It’s completely obvious to me, because the Lord said it with his own mouth, unless you don’t believe Luke, Matthew, Mark and Moses?

It is written pretty straightforward in many places.

I am wondering how people understand the concept of loving the Lord? It’s really quite simple to me.
And it doesn’t come from saying it.
I can say “I’m the queen of England”, but that doesn’t make it so.
Only my actions can give proof of my claims.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

John 15:7 If ye abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is My Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be My disciples.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

ok

You didn’t answer my question AGAIN.
You just quoted some verses.

SO, I will ask directly:

How do YOU love the Lord? (With all your heart, soul, mind and strength). How do you do it?

The Lord said that (loving the Lord), is the GREATEST commandment. OF ALL.

The Lord said there is another, that is LIKE it. Yes, another 1, like the greatest.

The Lord said ALL of the law and the prophets HANG ON THOSE. ALL OF THE LAW.

So, I don’t need to prooftext some strange verses, and throw them at people, and ask “do you do this”? That’s the problem with christianity today. Too many people throwing a few prooftexted verses at everyone else.

The Lord made it simple:

“Master, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said unto him, “Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.”

So, I ask again: How do you love the Lord thy God?
What ways do you DO it?

I'm sorry, I thought your "questions" were rhetorical... especially, since I already told michael21 that I keep the Commandments of Jesus. The OT says with all your heart and soul, but doesn't say with your mind. Surely the reasons are clear for that as well, since the New Covenant is written in our mind, according to the Prophets... and Jesus says the Holy Spirit reminds His sheep of what He said and teaches what Jesus means. The only reason I replied to your rhetorical questions was to confirm what you said, I sure didn't expect to get accused of something by doing so. Are you His sheep?

 

[Ligurian]

That is not Biblical Christianity, that is heresy.

Galilee was occupied by Gentiles, and was called Galilee of the Gentiles before Israel occupied it.
It kept its name after Israel finally occupied it. That is the origin of the name.

It's not about ten tribes.

He saves men from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9) because of their sin.

Jesus said: "Whoever believes in the Son is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already." (John 3:18).

The Kingdom of God is here and now (Luke 11:20).
The Gospel of the Kingdom . . .is the Gospel of Jesus. . .is the Gospel of grace. . .is the Gospel of Christ. . .is the "Gospel of Paul". . .is the Gospel of the New Covenant. . .

The NT presents only one Gospel, "Repent and believe for the forgivenss of your sin."

Thank God!

Two gospels is an invention of man, so contrary to the NT, one can't believe it even got off the ground.

Contra-Biblical. . .says no such thing. . ."And" is not "Then."

Contra-NT. . .doctrine of man. . .

Speaking of shutting up the Kingdom against men. . .

There is only one gospel, enjoying several names, but still only the one gospel.

Your multiple gospels is an invention of man, contrary to authoritativ NT teaching.

Same gospel. . .of which there is only one.

Multiple gospels is an invention of man totally contrary to authoritive NT teaching.

1 Corinthians 3:10, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
.

You follow the good news of "Christ crucified".

Vive la Difference! between "authoritive NT teaching" and Matthew 23:8.

I follow the good news of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since we know what Jesus taught we know what Peter's gospel is, Galatians 2:7-9... which couldn't have been "Christ crucified" yet, since the Pharisees hadn't yet killed Jesus to steal His inheritance.

 

[Clare73]

That is a wonderful question you ask.
I never thought about that.
At first thought, I would start off by saying the Bible. Pretty good authority since
the Bible IS God, imo.
I am sure that the existence of God can be seen in examining our world. To me, I ask, how could this wondrous universe NOT come from God?

The Bible is a written document, it is not the person of God.
It reveals God, it is God's truth, but it itself is not God himself.
But there is no true knowledge of God apart from or in disagreement with it.