Does the recently confirmed existence of UfO's pose a threat to Christianity?

[FredVB]

I started this thread in Nov 2019... but as of July 2020 the new "step wise" bombshell is "off-world vehicles" recovered. ==== Google it.

And and google astrophysicist govt contractor by the name of Eric Davis - briefing the DOD on what he calls off-world vehicles.

I did actually Google search it, I found the basis to this claim is not that off world vehicles not of this earth are really known to have been found. It was still hypothetical.
NYT retracts 'off-world vehicles' recovered bit from its UFO article

You might enjoy the CS Lewis' Space Trilogy. The man was not only brilliant and personable, but wise. His insights are probably going to inspire Christians until the end.

I had read them, in a couple of periods of my life. I think I still have the book set. I agree, I think these are among his brilliant works, and inspiring.

 

[BobRyan]

I did actually Google search it, I found the basis to this claim is not that off world vehicles not of this earth are really known to have been found. It was still hypothetical.
NYT retracts 'off-world vehicles' recovered bit from its UFO article



I had read them, in a couple of periods of my life. I think I still have the book set. I agree, I think these are among his brilliant works, and inspiring.

from that link:

==============================================
"the new article published by The New York Times titled 'No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon's U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public' where NYT writers Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean explained that former Democratic senator Harry Reid "pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader".

But the sentence right after that has been completely edited since my original article, where I'll now provide you with a before an after:"

Read more: NYT retracts 'off-world vehicles' recovered bit from its UFO article
=============================================

I think we all would agree that articles can be edited after the fact.

however the reason for my post was not a quote from "Harry Reid" as we can see here in this post of mine that you quoted

I started this thread in Nov 2019... but as of July 2020 the new "step wise" bombshell is "off-world vehicles" recovered. ==== Google it.

And and google astrophysicist govt contractor by the name of Eric Davis - briefing the DOD on what he calls off-world vehicles.


Start with PopularMechanics - they have the best commentary -
Government UFO Research | Pentagon Has UFO Vehicles, Materials

• "In fact, Davis briefed a Department of Defense (DOD) agency as recently as March about retrieving materials from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

The world is being desensitized to this sort of information to the point that it is accepted as every-day news. A step close to Standard Operating Procedures - where the world begins to "expect" news along this line to come to light every few months. The perfect environment for the 2 Thess 2 effect. In fact Matt 24 predicts such a shock-and-awe program "that if possible it would deceive the very elect"

===================

Ex-Pentagon Official: ‘Off-World Vehicles’ Have Been Found

Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth'



No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public

• "Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”

===============================================

U.F.O. -- Pentagon Consultant Briefed Senators on 'Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth' | National Review

My interest was in this "The astrophysicist Eric Davis, who consulted with the Pentagon’s original UFO program and now works for the defense contractor Aerospace Corporation, told the Times that after he examined certain materials, he came to the conclusion that “we couldn’t make [them] ourselves.” In fact, Davis briefed a Department of Defense (DOD) agency as recently as March about retrieving materials from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
from the popular mechanics link above: Government UFO Research | Pentagon Has UFO Vehicles, Materials

 

[FredVB]

from that link:

"the new article published by The New York Times titled 'No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon's U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public' where NYT writers Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean explained that former Democratic senator Harry Reid "pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader".

But the sentence right after that has been completely edited since my original article, where I'll now provide you with a before an after:"

Read more: NYT retracts 'off-world vehicles' recovered bit from its UFO article
=============================================

I think we all would agree that articles can be edited after the fact.

My interest was in this "The astrophysicist Eric Davis, who consulted with the Pentagon’s original UFO program and now works for the defense contractor Aerospace Corporation, told the Times that after he examined certain materials, he came to the conclusion that “we couldn’t make [them] ourselves.” In fact, Davis briefed a Department of Defense (DOD) agency as recently as March about retrieving materials from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
from the popular mechanics link above: Government UFO Research | Pentagon Has UFO Vehicles, Materials

Alright then. But it was edited. While articles can be edited after they are first published, it remains a question why this would be edited out. Would you say it is because this information is being suppressed, after the comment was published, and knowledge of materials that are not of this earth (no actual vehicles being found are involved in the discussed possible find after all) are now being hidden from public awareness, with that which was just an excuse saying it was a misunderstanding?

The question of this thread is asking if any UFO information coming out would alter or threaten the faith of any of us. I respond that the important points of Christianity do not depend on whether there are UFOs or not, or whether there is any life on other worlds, anywhere in the very wide universe, even fully intelligent life, which even we are not likely to be. My beliefs are already different in ways from those of other believers. Anything found involving UFO information, materials not of this earth, or discoveries of things in the space away from the earth, would not alter my Christian faith. God did make this universe big enough for others, but still I doubt any in a world we cannot get to can come to this world where we are. We are facing the more immediate decline and even coming fall of civilization here. We would never get to the capacity to go to worlds much further than where we have reached already. Resources are too limited here for us, why think any on other worlds, with all the intelligence needed for it, have so much more resources and would have much more stability than what we have here, to have travel for any of them possible to go to any world around another star very far away?

 

[BobRyan]

regarding a quote from Democratic senator Harry Reid

"the new article published by The New York Times titled 'No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon's U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public' where NYT writers Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean explained that former Democratic senator Harry Reid "pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader".

But the sentence right after that has been completely edited

Alright then. But it was edited. While articles can be edited after they are first published, it remains a question why this would be edited out. Would you say it is because this information is being suppressed, after the comment was published, and knowledge of materials that are not of this earth (no actual vehicles being found are involved in the discussed possible find after all) are now being hidden from public awareness, with that which was just an excuse saying it was a misunderstanding?

I think Davis is a more reliable witness - and Reid probably does not want his name on something that was likely "more classified" when he talked about it - than it is now when Davis is talking about it (Given all the DOD release bombshells on this topic since 2018).

Reid's statements are from before 2017.

The question of this thread is asking if any UFO information coming out would alter or threaten the faith of any of us. I respond that the important points of Christianity do not depend on whether there are UFOs or not, or whether there is any life on other worlds, anywhere in the very wide universe, even fully intelligent life,

A full on intelligent life UFO narrative complete with entire civilizations - far in advance - claiming to have "evolve" and claiming to "clarifiy" what we think about God and the universe and how it "really works" would be much harder to deal with than what we deal with today.

My beliefs are already different in ways from those of other believers. Anything found involving UFO information, materials not of this earth, or discoveries of things in the space away from the earth, would not alter my Christian faith.

When an evolutionist says Genesis is wrong - God did not create man -- some half chimp half
homosapien did it, it is all just guesswork and wishful thinking.

But when someone claims to come from x-light years away and can make many more claims along those lines .. the task gets exponentially more difficult to untangle knots.

We are facing the more immediate decline and even coming fall of civilization here. We would never get to the capacity to go to worlds much further than where we have reached already. Resources are too limited here for us, why think any on other worlds,

The DOD evidence is that they are already coming here. The problem is not that we might leap out into solar systems far away and discover something -- that would be very far off. The problem becomes immediate when they show up here and the story telling begins. No real control over that one.

And the narrative seems to be going in the direction "oops we already found that they have been coming here - we just forgot to tell the public.. here are all the toys, videos, story-telling and science we have from it so far"

 

[FredVB]

I think Davis is a more reliable witness - and Reid probably does not want his name on something that was likely "more classified" when he talked about it - than it is now when Davis is talking about it (Given all the DOD release bombshells on this topic since 2018).
Reid's statements are from before 2017.

So then it means there is suppression of information about the true facts they have, with that. Even as there was no sign of panic from that statement coming out, and alien cult belief is pretty widespread now.

A full on intelligent life UFO narrative complete with entire civilizations - far in advance - claiming to have "evolve" and claiming to "clarifiy" what we think about God and the universe and how it "really works" would be much harder to deal with than what we deal with today.

When an evolutionist says Genesis is wrong - God did not create man -- some half chimp half
homosapien did it, it is all just guesswork and wishful thinking.

But when someone claims to come from x-light years away and can make many more claims along those lines .. the task gets exponentially more difficult to untangle knots.

The DOD evidence is that they are already coming here. The problem is not that we might leap out into solar systems far away and discover something -- that would be very far off. The problem becomes immediate when they show up here and the story telling begins. No real control over that one.

And the narrative seems to be going in the direction "oops we already found that they have been coming here - we just forgot to tell the public.. here are all the toys, videos, story-telling and science we have from it so far"

If such 'aliens' were actually appearing so that they would be seen by any, at least through media news besides those seeing them directly, with a new narrative from their advanced perspective, which would be communicated and understood by human people, surely many would believe it. But you notice already by now that there large numbers of denialists about almost any relevant news or scientific understanding. There would be a great number still denying the narrative, certainly there would be among those disbelieving biological macro evolution already. Some would deny even the aliens. It would not be the end of Christianity from that. Of course many more among Christians would accept evolution then.

But more to the narrative from the 'aliens' being revealed that is strange and new would be much more doubtful to everyone. If such was promoted, aliens might be much more questioned. In any case there must already be questions about where they came from, how far away that is, and how long it took to get here from there. If the trip to here is near to lightspeed, or somehow faster with wormhole travel or something that enables that, it might be questioned and even pushed if any human volunteer could go on a ride on the alien ship that they would have come with, to another body in space that would not be a long trip, to see that for evidence supporting their claim.

There is a lie, a great lie, that is coming according to Bible prophecy, which will deceive a great many. It may be here. I already see great cultic followings. But aliens or anything corresponding to them are not portrayed in any prophetic scriptures. I don't expect real aliens to come. But I sure can believe other life, some really more intelligent than we show we are, would be somewhere else in this great universe. But how they get here would be really questionable. But I would not lose Christian faith over it. Some though will dismiss Christianity for them if this were to happen, I imagine.

 

[BobRyan]

If such 'aliens' were actually appearing so that they would be seen by any, at least through media news besides those seeing them directly, with a new narrative from their advanced perspective, which would be communicated and understood by human people, surely many would believe it. But you notice already by now that there large numbers of denialists about almost any relevant news or scientific understanding. There would be a great number still denying the narrative, certainly there would be among those disbelieving biological macro evolution already. Some would deny even the aliens. It would not be the end of Christianity from that. Of course many more among Christians would accept evolution then.

"believers" in that system would include both Christian and non-Christian - so one impact would be a huge increase in difficulty in regards to evangelism.

The second impact would be to put the "space-alien deniers" far down into the kook-fringe-ignored status. Currently Christianity is a favorite thing to "kick" - but we can still evangelize.

What then would be the "new Christianity" that all the Christians who fall for this - would create?

 

[FredVB]

"believers" in that system would include both Christian and non-Christian - so one impact would be a huge increase in difficulty in regards to evangelism.

The second impact would be to put the "deniers" far down into the kook-fringe-ignored status. Currently Christianity is a favorite thing to "kick" - but we can still evangelize.

What then would be the "new Christianity" that all the Christians who fall for this - would create?

My worry is not that apparent aliens will be the great lie that deceives many. I just don't see that. But I do see the path of the great lie forming already. Many are not understanding Mystery Babylon, with interpretations they learned. They dismiss what I say when that comes up.

 

[Sal Mercurio]

Jesus said, he "WILL NOT" return until the son of perdition is revealed and we can take that to the bank.
The son of perdition or the 1st beast appoints a false prophet who will demonstrate signs and wonders from heaven. These are the minions of hell and Spiritual warfare just became quite visible. Believe it.
There are no other planetary beings. The dragon is on the earth and soon he will spew fire.

 

[Davy]

Lord Jesus said the last days would be just like the days of Noah, they were eating and drinking, giving and taking in marriage until the flood came. What was happening in the days of Noah?

Per Genesis 6, a group of fallen angels called the "sons of God" left their own estate and habitation, and came down from heaven and took wives of the flesh daughters of the man Adam, trying to taint the bloodline that Jesus would be born through. Their marriages with flesh woman produced a giant hybrid race of men of great physical stature which became the mythological legends of old. And because Noah was 'perfect in his generations', that is pointing in the Hebrew to bloodline purity, so that event was not just about a bunch of mean bullies on the earth.

So if the UFO phenomena is real, only those who aren't familiar with God's Word would be deceived enough to believe it's about aliens from another solar system, etc.

 

[The Liturgist]

So to reiterate an earlier point, there is no confirmation of extra-terrestrial spacecraft type UFOs, Senator Harry Reid was eccentric on this point (he was a character in general; his home town, Searchlight, is close to where I live, a tiny mining community on US 95 near the border of Nevada with California and Arizona, and in the desert one tends to see mirages. Yesterday I saw a peculiarly shaped cloud in a snowstorm. I attributed it to the beauty of God’s creation, did not consider it the work of aliens, and my Christian faith remains solid.

 

[BobRyan]

So to reiterate an earlier point, there is no confirmation of extra-terrestrial spacecraft type UFOs, Senator Harry Reid was eccentric .

That is as good a story as we might hope for.

=================== meanwhile
April 27,2020 from DoD

Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release

"The Department of Defense has authorized the release of three unclassified Navy videos, one taken in November 2004 and the other two in January 2015, which have been circulating in the public domain after unauthorized releases in 2007 and 2017. The U.S. Navy previously acknowledged that these videos circulating in the public domain were indeed Navy videos. After a thorough review, the department has determined that the authorized release of these unclassified videos does not reveal any sensitive capabilities or systems, and does not impinge on any subsequent investigations of military air space incursions by unidentified aerial phenomena. DOD is releasing the videos in order to clear up any misconceptions by the public on whether or not the footage that has been circulating was real, or whether or not there is more to the videos. The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as "unidentified." The released videos can be found at the Naval Air Systems Command FOIA Reading Room: Documents | NAVAIR - FOIA.
"

The pilots report that they were out maneuvered by technology far beyond what they had ...
The DoD was "doubling down" on the reports from 2017 and also on their own spokes people making the rounds of news outlets in 2019 confirming the story.

=============================

Yesterday I saw a peculiarly shaped cloud in a snowstorm.

Well if you are waiting for the DoD to do a press release on your story ... it might be a while.

 

[BobRyan]

=====================
A history of documented above-top-secret classification regarding this topic
10 Shocking Statements about UFOs by Scientists and Government Officials | Mysterious Universe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...os-are-real-navy-says-please-stop-saying-ufo/

========================================
Update April 2020
Those "announcements" above were all from 2019.. but now in 2020 -- April - the DOD has come out to "remind us" that they already told us all this and that it is all "legit".

Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release


https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/pentagon-declassifies-three-ufo-videos-taken-by-us-navy-pilots/

How odd that the OP ends with this --

Update April 2020
Those "announcements" above were all from 2019.. but now in 2020 -- April - the DOD has come out to "remind us" that they already told us all this and that it is all "legit".

Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release


https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/pentagon-declassifies-three-ufo-videos-taken-by-us-navy-pilots/

======================================

Instead of this

Alternate-reality Update April 2020

"After two and half years of careful followup investigation - all of those reports from 2017 through 2019 turned out to be a flock of birds and false radar image reflections ... nothing to see here"

 

[The Liturgist]

That is as good a story as we might hope for.

=================== meanwhile
April 27,2020 from DoD

Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release

"The Department of Defense has authorized the release of three unclassified Navy videos, one taken in November 2004 and the other two in January 2015, which have been circulating in the public domain after unauthorized releases in 2007 and 2017. The U.S. Navy previously acknowledged that these videos circulating in the public domain were indeed Navy videos. After a thorough review, the department has determined that the authorized release of these unclassified videos does not reveal any sensitive capabilities or systems, and does not impinge on any subsequent investigations of military air space incursions by unidentified aerial phenomena. DOD is releasing the videos in order to clear up any misconceptions by the public on whether or not the footage that has been circulating was real, or whether or not there is more to the videos. The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as "unidentified." The released videos can be found at the Naval Air Systems Command FOIA Reading Room: Documents | NAVAIR - FOIA.
"

The pilots report that they were out maneuvered by technology far beyond what they had ...
The DoD was "doubling down" on the reports from 2017 and also on their own spokes people making the rounds of news outlets in 2019 confirming the story.

=============================



Well if you are waiting for the DoD to do a press release on your story ... it might be a while.

I’ve seen the videos, and frankly, your assertion that the flight crews thought it was alien technology is entirely unfounded.

It was either an experimental weapons system or some natural phenomena, or perhaps the appearance of a demon in the aerial realm (interestingly, monks in some texts are advised to avoid gazing at the sky owing to demonic activity, relating to Satan being “the prince of power of the air.”

i have spoken with Orthodox priests about this by the way, and they assured me it was advice intended strictly for monastics, and laity need not fear looking at a sunset or other beautiful weather. But since monks are engaged in unceasing spiritual warfare, things are different for them.

 

[mlepfitjw]

space aliens!

 

[BobRyan]

I’ve seen the videos, and frankly, your assertion that the flight crews thought it was alien technology is entirely unfounded.

I said they stated it was "beyond anything we had". (As opposed to "very talented rocks")

My exact quote "The pilots report that they were out maneuvered by technology far beyond what they had"

"A whole fleet of them" according to one eye-witness.

Naval Pilots Witness UFOs | HISTORY

Pilot says the radar jamming done by these objects "an act of war" technically speaking.

Fighter pilot says UFO he chased in 2004 committed 'act of war'

Pilot on-camera says "what we saw exceeded anything we had in our inventory"

Retired Navy pilot who spotted 'Tic Tac' UFO: There's something out there

from the link above:
CARLSON: Do you think the U.S. government has concluded that this is not Russia, China or some other country?

FRAVOR: I'm pretty sure that that, you know, just by some of the phone calls that we've gotten, some of the people that we have talked to in the government, that they are unaware of what this is. I think that ties directly with the East Coast siding with the gimbal video, and I'd be willing to say just because I'm in contact with a lot of these people, that there are more incidents that are starting to come out, that people are starting to report inside the governments of things that they've seen and I think you're seeing it from people in the past, because it always had that taboo to come out and talk about these things.

You're now finding people from the past that are saying, hey, I saw this, I just never told reporter, but when I did, I was told not to say anything.

CARLSON: Yes.

FRAVOR: So I think, since 2017, the world is starting to change, because of the publicity, because of the attention of the Senate and the Congress, because of people like Marco Rubio and the Intel Committee of telling the DoD, hey, I want a report. I think you're starting to see more and more of that.

 

[BobRyan]

space aliens!

Everyone agrees to "stop short of saying that on camera" -- apparently

or perhaps the appearance of a demon in the aerial realm (interestingly, monks in some texts are advised to avoid gazing at the sky owing to demonic activity, relating to Satan being “the prince of power of the air.”

technically that would also be "space aliens"

If a space-aliens story gained default-acceptance status then...

"believers" in that system would include both Christian and non-Christian - so one impact would be a huge increase in difficulty in regards to evangelism.

The second impact would be to put the "space-alien deniers" far down into the kook-fringe-ignored status. Currently Christianity is a favorite thing to "kick" - but we can still evangelize.

What then would be the "new Christianity" that all the Christians who fall for this - would create?

and claiming everything having technology beyond our own "must be the devil" and not a competing space-alien civilization would get less and less serious discussion.

 

[Jipsah]

Pilot on-camera says "what we saw exceeded anything we had in our inventory"

That settles it then. If there's anything out there that appears to be badder anything we have in our unventory, it has to be aliens.

 

[Davy]

These events, even any admitting by government officials of the existence of aliens, is nothing but a prep for the coming pseudo-Christ to play Christ in Jerusalem for the end. That pseudo-Christ will be Satan himself, de facto, in person, here on earth, as Satan also has the image of a man.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV


There's only 2 different dimensions written of in God's Word, this earthly one we live in, and the heavenly one where God and the angels dwell, which includes Satan's abode of the wicked called hell.

Since that Scripture says when Satan is cast down, his place will not be found in heaven anymore. That leaves only one other place he can go to, i.e., this earthly dimension we live in. He is coming here, and the majority of the world is not prepared for it. Instead, the world is being prepared to accept that there is life on other solar systems, and to accept Satan and his host as visitors from...

 

[Isilwen]

Does anyone watch the series History's Greatest Mysteries? There was a three-episode series called Roswell: The First Witness. In the series, they talked alot about a journal, and in the last episode, they finally decided who it probably belonged to and talked with that person's children.

The last name was Saunders and well, the gentlemen that they are talking about is my girlfriend's grandfather and the children they interviewed were my girlfriend's aunt and uncle. They didn't interview her mom, but they showed pictures that included her mom in them.

The one thing that my girlfriend's grandfather always said was the truth is out there. It was right around the time of the X-Files show, but he used the phrase none-the-less.

 

[FredVB]

There are great lies and deceptions spreading. Belief in aliens is a small matter in comparison to other deceptions spreading.