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By faith, you are required to call something "evolved", even when you don't see *how*?

How long can you hold on to the secret behind your Evolution?

  • Only a moment.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • About a minute.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • About an hour.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • About a day.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Whatever life is.

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • That depends on whom I have kept it for.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The same way I keep my virginity.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • As long as God wants me to.

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I've been told many times that faith and science don't mix, but there is interpretation of science that science on its own can't understand: namely,
By faith, you are required to call something "evolved", even when you don't see *how*
The point being that the assumption certain "things" are evolved, limits what can actually (evolve). This is not to say that something would be more evolved, if it was anticipated in the right way, but that the anticipation itself may be confused with something that is not evolution - unless it is kept within the definition of Evolution that is yet to be. There is a strength in maintaining something's secret, that won't evolve any other way.

Perhaps this is new to you; the Bible says "hope that is seen, is not hope; for how can you hope in something you see?" (from memory, letters) in other words, we as believers are called to keep everything secret, not just Evolution. I am speaking from experience, that more of what "applies" is discovered, if we do not first dictate what it is we must see, from our perspective. When two creatures that both keep the same secret, encounter each other, the secret is only more kept, if done properly! Just think what a mate is able to do, if the secret itself is "open to interpretation". I mean I can understand why you would virtue signal a particular "Evolution" if you thought the two aspects (the Evolution and the being secret) were related to the same thing, but imagine if it were up to the optimum mate, whether you would mate at all - the more secret, the more attractive!

What you may find, is that you have no strength at all - keeping secret - unless you practice it. It will not come naturally, at first; your first intention, will be to share that you have merely begun to keep something secret. What I want to discover, here, is what comes after that: what is it that a secret needs, to evolve? At first, you may think "a secret can't evolve, it's always the same secret", but think about what you are saying: are you saying that nothing evolved can be kept secret? That doesn't make sense. What makes sense, is that the more evolved something becomes the easier it becomes to keep a secret. The more you keep it a secret, the more light the idea that it really is an evolved secret...

As Jesus said "the first will be last and the last first" (from memory, gospels), this applies to "Evolution" too. Think about it: how easy and light is it to keep "Evolution" evolved? Now compare that with how difficult it is to keep a secret - they are not the same thing, are they? In reality, you can't afford to keep mutating, crossing your fingers that your adaptation won't be wasted effort, given the change that has taken place between the present and the most recent adaptation. I mean if you are an ape and you want to evolve an ape adaptation, if your species has already become human, your ape adaptation will be a wasted effort. This can be avoided, by sticking with the adaptation you currently have. If you had kept it a secret, your adaptation would still apply, because you would still have a reference point that remained the same for both species.

In reality what I am saying is "keep your having been an ape, to yourself" because "you might find a context in which to apply your belief, that is not wrong (given the right tolerance)"; ape secret to ape, there is nothing wrong, that is worth fighting for. Perhaps when you are more practiced at this, the more it will make sense. That is my prayer?
 

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Hi there,

So I've been told many times that faith and science don't mix, but there is interpretation of science that science on its own can't understand: namely,The point being that the assumption certain "things" are evolved, limits what can actually (evolve). This is not to say that something would be more evolved, if it was anticipated in the right way, but that the anticipation itself may be confused with something that is not evolution - unless it is kept within the definition of Evolution that is yet to be. There is a strength in maintaining something's secret, that won't evolve any other way.

Perhaps this is new to you; the Bible says "hope that is seen, is not hope; for how can you hope in something you see?" (from memory, letters) in other words, we as believers are called to keep everything secret, not just Evolution. I am speaking from experience, that more of what "applies" is discovered, if we do not first dictate what it is we must see, from our perspective. When two creatures that both keep the same secret, encounter each other, the secret is only more kept, if done properly! Just think what a mate is able to do, if the secret itself is "open to interpretation". I mean I can understand why you would virtue signal a particular "Evolution" if you thought the two aspects (the Evolution and the being secret) were related to the same thing, but imagine if it were up to the optimum mate, whether you would mate at all - the more secret, the more attractive!

What you may find, is that you have no strength at all - keeping secret - unless you practice it. It will not come naturally, at first; your first intention, will be to share that you have merely begun to keep something secret. What I want to discover, here, is what comes after that: what is it that a secret needs, to evolve? At first, you may think "a secret can't evolve, it's always the same secret", but think about what you are saying: are you saying that nothing evolved can be kept secret? That doesn't make sense. What makes sense, is that the more evolved something becomes the easier it becomes to keep a secret. The more you keep it a secret, the more light the idea that it really is an evolved secret...

As Jesus said "the first will be last and the last first" (from memory, gospels), this applies to "Evolution" too. Think about it: how easy and light is it to keep "Evolution" evolved? Now compare that with how difficult it is to keep a secret - they are not the same thing, are they? In reality, you can't afford to keep mutating, crossing your fingers that your adaptation won't be wasted effort, given the change that has taken place between the present and the most recent adaptation. I mean if you are an ape and you want to evolve an ape adaptation, if your species has already become human, your ape adaptation will be a wasted effort. This can be avoided, by sticking with the adaptation you currently have. If you had kept it a secret, your adaptation would still apply, because you would still have a reference point that remained the same for both species.

In reality what I am saying is "keep your having been an ape, to yourself" because "you might find a context in which to apply your belief, that is not wrong (given the right tolerance)"; ape secret to ape, there is nothing wrong, that is worth fighting for. Perhaps when you are more practiced at this, the more it will make sense. That is my prayer?
Obviously I am not at all practiced. Nothing you are saying makes sense to me.
 
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mindfulzen

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We have been indocterinated evolution at school, I do not consider it anymore. I do not see how it must be one or the other. Regardless if people believe in evolution as told to take on faith, does not change that God made man. To each their own. I do not waste my time to make everything I was taught about the universe, evolution, DNA, etc fir together with my faith. That would be some job, It would be a 10 year project, that could only make me question the faith. And I do not do missionary. I have learned that we only get kicked off secular sites if we preach. So it is not fruitful to argue with atheists about science vs religion, they just false report, and our voices shutdown. Those atheists who discuss evolution, never seem to genuinly want another viewpoint, just want reaffirmation and a "win" in a debate.
 
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Aussie Pete

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We have been indocterinated evolution at school, I do not consider it anymore. I do not see how it must be one or the other. Regardless if people believe in evolution as told to take on faith, does not change that God made man. To each their own. I do not waste my time to make everything I was taught about the universe, evolution, DNA, etc fir together with my faith. That would be some job, It would be a 10 year project, that could only make me question the faith. And I do not do missionary. I have learned that we only get kicked off secular sites if we preach. So it is not fruitful to argue with atheists about science vs religion, they just false report, and our voices shutdown. Those atheists who discuss evolution, never seem to genuinly want another viewpoint, just want reaffirmation and a "win" in a debate.
We agree on that. I am blessed to be from a generation that was taught both evolution and creation and I was able to make up my own mind. I believed creation although I was not a Christian.
 
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Gottservant

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We have been indocterinated evolution at school, I do not consider it anymore. I do not see how it must be one or the other. Regardless if people believe in evolution as told to take on faith, does not change that God made man. To each their own. I do not waste my time to make everything I was taught about the universe, evolution, DNA, etc fir together with my faith. That would be some job, It would be a 10 year project, that could only make me question the faith. And I do not do missionary. I have learned that we only get kicked off secular sites if we preach. So it is not fruitful to argue with atheists about science vs religion, they just false report, and our voices shutdown. Those atheists who discuss evolution, never seem to genuinly want another viewpoint, just want reaffirmation and a "win" in a debate.

We are all tempted to go our own way, debating Evolution can be a way to find faith in Jesus you might not have found, any other way - but as you say, it takes years.
 
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Gottservant

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We agree on that. I am blessed to be from a generation that was taught both evolution and creation and I was able to make up my own mind. I believed creation although I was not a Christian.

You are rare!

I have never believed in Evolution, even once, but I have been fixated on it, trying to understand it (which is the same thing as believing it, to begin with).

The problem for me, is that I have lost my sanity, in the process - my words are very hard for people to understand.

I want "Evolution" to be something I can bottle, but the Lord says "it's not healthy, to bottle that much"!
 
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mindfulzen

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We agree on that. I am blessed to be from a generation that was taught both evolution and creation and I was able to make up my own mind. I believed creation although I was not a Christian.
I just accepted what I was taught in school was true, and tried to be able to explain it, to pass tests and not get bad grades. I have not given it much thought. It never mattered to me as an atheist or christian. I actually have no opinion on it, even after reading this post. Making sense of this question seems to me, to be like eating apples in edens garden. What I do not question, do not concern me.
 
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Gottservant

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I just accepted what I was taught in school was true, and tried to be able to explain it, to pass tests and not get bad grades. I have not given it much thought. It never mattered to me as an atheist or christian. I actually have no opinion on it, even after reading this post. Making sense of this question seems to me, to be like eating apples in edens garden. What I do not question, do not concern me.

This is something of a marvel!

You grew up with "Evolution" and were never curious?

Tell me: in what way do you find humbling yourself easiest and lightest?

I remember what God has put me through, for His Faith - with the idea that maybe it need not be some sort of "need"?
 
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mindfulzen

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We are all tempted to go our own way, debating Evolution can be a way to find faith in Jesus you might not have found, any other way - but as you say, it takes years.
We each have our path. I may be a simple man, because I must not merge all the knowledge from school, documentaries, etc with my faith. It does not matter what Tyson De Grasse and others say about the origin or the universe, and much of it I do not understand, so I cannot merge it with faith. Not my field. Most people get impressed by experts and repeat them, even if they do not fully understand what they speak of. I just say, I do not know. And I have a hard time believing that you can measure the age of sedimentsamples, fossils, rocks, etc with the carbon13 test, or whatever it is called. That has not been proven to me, how can it be so accurate? this fossil is 4800 years. Seems to just be a guesstimate that they decided on, so they could keep investigating how long ago the dinosaurs existed, and when vesuv erupted last. So, if I do not believe in the datingmethods accuracy, their "truths" about how old the earth is, how it came about, etc. Then I do not occupy my mind with it. Just fun and interesting to watch documentaries about some timeperiods. If neanderthales existed 5 000 years ago, or 5 million years ago, does not change anything for me.
 
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mindfulzen

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This is something of a marvel!

You grew up with "Evolution" and were never curious?

Tell me: in what way do you find humbling yourself easiest and lightest?

I remember what God has put me through, for His Faith - with the idea that maybe it need not be some sort of "need"?
Never questioned it. I was taught about neanderthales and all the stages of evolution in school and on television, and went to the library to borrow books on it. I was interested in that and dinosaurs, and stuff like that. It was fun, but I just accepted it as true, without questioning it. Wanted to learn more. There was a french educational series called "and then there was man" or something, when I grew up. About a beard of knowledge who travelled through time, and educated kids about all the interesting events in history. So I read books about what the latest episode covered. I think it was a worldwide hit, from the 80s. Rewatched it some years ago, still fun.

I am not sure if I understand the question about humbling myself. But i'll take a stab without being sure. I would say, by not pretending to be knowledgable about a subject I do not understand. Asking questins when I want to know something, even if I ought to know it, and I may look silly. Being dispassionate about it, we are not supposed to judge, so I just go by that. If I do not ask questions and pretend to know, I will never learn, and I will have walls to knowledge because of silly pride. And for me, pride is a grave sin.
 
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Frank Robert

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Those atheists who discuss evolution, never seem to genuinly want another viewpoint, just want reaffirmation and a "win" in a debate.
Atheists are not the only ones who understand and discuss evolution. Creationist who refer to evolution as a viewpoint are denying the overwhelming evidence for evolution based solely on their own belief and viewpoint.
 
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mindfulzen

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Atheists are not the only ones who understand and discuss evolution. Creationist who refer to evolution as a viewpoint are denying the overwhelming evidence for evolution based solely on their own belief and viewpoint.
Mayby. I meant issues with atheists in general. Evolution never interested me much, did not debate it. Was more into other issues regarding religion, both as an atheist and christian. I have been on both sides. I was out to get the logical win, because of silly impossible burden of proof as an atheist. Never understanding that faith cannot be proved, it is a feeling, all others can do is accept it or reject it. A light onto your feet.
 
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Frank Robert

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Mayby. I meant issues with atheists in general. Evolution never interested me much, did not debate it. Was more into other issues regarding religion, both as an atheist and christian. I have been on both sides. I was out to get the logical win, because of silly impossible burden of proof as an atheist. Never understanding that faith cannot be proved, it is a feeling, all others can do is accept it or reject it. A light onto your feet.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s) and both atheists and theists admit god(s) can not be proved or disproved. There are no logical reasons for theists and atheists to battle over evolution. It is obvious that creationists label evolution as a belief and viewpoint to get their religious beliefs into schools.
 
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jacknife

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Hi there,

So I've been told many times that faith and science don't mix, but there is interpretation of science that science on its own can't understand: namely,The point being that the assumption certain "things" are evolved, limits what can actually (evolve). This is not to say that something would be more evolved, if it was anticipated in the right way, but that the anticipation itself may be confused with something that is not evolution - unless it is kept within the definition of Evolution that is yet to be. There is a strength in maintaining something's secret, that won't evolve any other way.

Perhaps this is new to you; the Bible says "hope that is seen, is not hope; for how can you hope in something you see?" (from memory, letters) in other words, we as believers are called to keep everything secret, not just Evolution. I am speaking from experience, that more of what "applies" is discovered, if we do not first dictate what it is we must see, from our perspective. When two creatures that both keep the same secret, encounter each other, the secret is only more kept, if done properly! Just think what a mate is able to do, if the secret itself is "open to interpretation". I mean I can understand why you would virtue signal a particular "Evolution" if you thought the two aspects (the Evolution and the being secret) were related to the same thing, but imagine if it were up to the optimum mate, whether you would mate at all - the more secret, the more attractive!

What you may find, is that you have no strength at all - keeping secret - unless you practice it. It will not come naturally, at first; your first intention, will be to share that you have merely begun to keep something secret. What I want to discover, here, is what comes after that: what is it that a secret needs, to evolve? At first, you may think "a secret can't evolve, it's always the same secret", but think about what you are saying: are you saying that nothing evolved can be kept secret? That doesn't make sense. What makes sense, is that the more evolved something becomes the easier it becomes to keep a secret. The more you keep it a secret, the more light the idea that it really is an evolved secret...

As Jesus said "the first will be last and the last first" (from memory, gospels), this applies to "Evolution" too. Think about it: how easy and light is it to keep "Evolution" evolved? Now compare that with how difficult it is to keep a secret - they are not the same thing, are they? In reality, you can't afford to keep mutating, crossing your fingers that your adaptation won't be wasted effort, given the change that has taken place between the present and the most recent adaptation. I mean if you are an ape and you want to evolve an ape adaptation, if your species has already become human, your ape adaptation will be a wasted effort. This can be avoided, by sticking with the adaptation you currently have. If you had kept it a secret, your adaptation would still apply, because you would still have a reference point that remained the same for both species.

In reality what I am saying is "keep your having been an ape, to yourself" because "you might find a context in which to apply your belief, that is not wrong (given the right tolerance)"; ape secret to ape, there is nothing wrong, that is worth fighting for. Perhaps when you are more practiced at this, the more it will make sense. That is my prayer?
Hey gotta I see you still post here. And still you haven't learned the very basics of evolution.
 
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jacknife

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Evolution is fantasy...
I've always wondered why is it always evolution people go after? Why not gravity or germ theory? Regardless the fantasy of evolution has been producing results for over 150 years. You can't just hand wave all the evidence away.
 
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mindfulzen

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Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s) and both atheists and theists admit god(s) can not be proved or disproved. There are no logical reasons for theists and atheists to battle over evolution. It is obvious that creationists label evolution as a belief and viewpoint to get their religious beliefs into schools.
I know what an atheist is, I was that, and I was very into distinction between agnostic and atheist. I thought I was agnostic at a point. I did argue against christians as an atheist, because I simply did not like that it shaped society. I wasted much time focusing on those issues, time I should have spent with people in my life instead. I cannot speak o the evolutionissue per se, my battles was more about society, culture and politics, from a humanistic viewpoint if you will. It is a wokething. And atheists are different. For me it was about hitchens and dawkins. and being against religion totally. They ridiculed religion for fun.
 
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jacknife

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I know what an atheist, I was that, and I was very into distinction between agnostic and atheist. I thought I was agnostic at a point. I did argue against christians as an atheist, because I simply did not like that it shaped society. I wasted much time focusing on those issues, time I should have spent with people in my life instead. I cannot speak o the evolutionissue per se, my battles was more about society, culture and politics, from a humanistic viewpoint if you will. It is a wokething. And atheists are different. For me it was about hitchens and dawkins. and being against religion totally. They ridiculed religion for fun.
That's not super uncommon many atheists don't really get into dawkins or hitchens heck i'd never even heard of hitchens until I joined this forum.
 
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