Why do SDA preach

[BobRyan]

This is a DEAD horse!

We are doing nothing but circular debating! You as an SDA are imbedded in that teaching and it will not natter one iotta what you are shown....so why are we do this?????
.

We compare what the Bible says to what other doctrines state because we believe the Bible is more than "Sabbath blablabla"

KEEP THE SABBATH blah blah blah the SABBATH.

We find Christ's statement on the conflict between scripture and tradition in Mark 7:6-13 to be "instructive" and way above "blablabla"

 

[Ceallaigh]

Interesting diversion from the Sabbath points were both SDAs and non-SDA scholars agree.

Sorry bro, but the Mark of the Beast is a part of SDA theology regarding the sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew 19:16-19.........
"And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
..
18Then he said to Him, “Which ones?”
...

WHERE IS "KEEP THE SABBATH"???????
.

And where is "Do not take God's name in vain"? Ex 20:7 and where is "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and where is "do not have any other gods" ? - none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

What is your point???

Your "Sabbath blablaba" statement appears very weak just then

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry bro, but the Mark of the Beast is a part of SDA theology regarding the sabbath.

many things are part of SDA theology --

but you were focused on questioning the point about SDA statements on the Sabbath in agreement with Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations - then when that idea failed dropped it like a hot potato without addressing the obvious "elephant" in your living room at that point. Which is "what are the implications" for your view failing to account for historic documented fact on the agreement details? (Which is the very reason those details keep coming up).

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry bro, but the Mark of the Beast is a part of SDA theology regarding the sabbath.

It is a prediction about the future - a future where religious liberty is totally smashed by the federal government to the point of not even allowing Bible Sabbath observance at all. "Others" will "predict" that such a future event can never happen and if in the future it does not happen then by SDA understanding on that point - the Mark of the Beast could never happen. Is this really what you want to get in to "who is better at that prediction about what is still future"?

Have you really come to the Seventh-day Baptist position on this and now for you the only question left is about "predicting the future"? Is that seriously your position???

 

[BobRyan]

The practice of "gaming the topic" is where one takes nothing at all very seriously in terms of reading the Bible or finding truth - drops any line of argument that does not appear to be going well - and simply looks for another angle to toss out with no real interest on which way that one goes either.

 

[Major1]

And where is "Do not take God's name in vain"? Ex 20:7 and where is "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and where is "do not have any other gods" ? - none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

What is your point???

Your "Sabbath blablaba" statement appears very weak just then

That is a Straw man answer. Those points were not in the equation and Jesus spoke to the ones that He thought mattered and the Sabbath was not one of them.

 

[Major1]

We compare what the Bible says to what other doctrines state because we believe the Bible is more than "Sabbath blablabla"



We find Christ's statement on the conflict between scripture and tradition in Mark 7:6-13 to be "instructive" and way above "blablabla"

I do not accept that. IF you accepted Bible doctrine instead of SDA teaching, we would not be having this conversation at all......would we?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
And where is "Do not take God's name in vain"?Ex 20:7
and where is "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
and where is "do not have any other gods" ?

- none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

What is your point???

That is a Straw man answer.

On the contrary it goes STRAIGHT to the obvious point -- - none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

Matt 19 is not a case of Christ saying to take God's name in vain or to ignore the 4th commandment.

 

[Ceallaigh]

That is a Straw man answer. Those points were not in the equation and Jesus spoke to the ones that He thought mattered and the Sabbath was not one of them.

Jesus seemed to go in the opposite direction of telling the people to keep the sabbath. The ones demanding the sabbath be kept were the Pharisees.

 

[BobRyan]

I do not accept that. IF you accepted Bible doctrine instead of SDA teaching, we would not be having this conversation at all......would we?

On the contrary - your objections are against the very Sabbath details that SDAs agree with the Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations where they also freely admit to the 7th day Sabbath for mankind and the TEN written on the heart. So not just the Bible details where SDAs agree with all the other Bible Sabbath keeping denominations but you object to even the ones where we agree with Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations!!

In fact it is pretty hard to find any point where your position is not at all identifying anything unique to SDA doctrine, when it comes to the Sabbath

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus seemed to go in the opposite direction of telling the people to keep the Sabbath.

Just not in the Bible. In the Bible we find that Jesus said "Keep the Commandments" and in the bible we are told that it was Jesus' custom to lead out in Sabbath services Luke 4. And in the Bible we find Jesus in direct opposition to those claiming he was opposed to scripture/opposed to God's law Matt 5.

Bible details matter.

 

[Ceallaigh]

BobRyan said: ↑
And where is "Do not take God's name in vain"?Ex 20:7
and where is "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
and where is "do not have any other gods" ?

- none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

What is your point???



On the contrary it goes STRAIGHT to the obvious point -- - none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

Matt 19 is not a case of Christ saying to take God's name in vain or to ignore the 4th commandment.

Where is have no other Gods?

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

And it's not that Jesus said to ignore the sabbath, it's that neither Jesus nor the Apostles said to keep it or warned against breaking it.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Just not in the Bible. In the Bible we find that Jesus said "Keep the Commandments" and in the bible we are told that it was Jesus' custom to lead out in Sabbath services Luke 4. And in the Bible we find Jesus in direct opposition to those claiming he was opposed to scripture/opposed to God's law Matt 5.

Bible details matter.

I said what Jesus told the people about the sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Where is have no other Gods?

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

You shot your own argument in the foot when you admit that commandments NOT mentioned by Jesus in Matt 19 -- continue to apply. (Basically you just made my argument). That was my whole point - what we find in Matt 19 was not some sort of "new tiny Bible being invented on the spot" - rather Jesus gives specific examples that pertain only to "Love your neighbor as yourself" and entirely ignored all the ones based on "Love God with all your heart" in Matt 19 because He was dealing with a specific issue there.

And it's not that Jesus said to ignore the Sabbath,

Indeed - in fact He said not to accuse him of doing that at all

it's that neither Jesus nor the Apostles said to keep it or warned against breaking it.

which is true of "Do not take God's name in vain" but is not true of the Sabbath.

You statement is the real form of a strawman

In the NT We have not one "week day 1 is the LORD's day" but by contrast we have quotes directly from the Sabbath commandment several times as well as "Every Sabbath" Gospel preaching.

Ignoring the details in these posts is not helping as much as you might have at first hoped.

 

[BobRyan]

I said what Jesus told the people about the sabbath.

He never said "do not take God's Name in vain" but He did say "keep the commandments" and he did say "the Sabbath was MADE FOR Mankind" Mark 2:27

And James 2 "Walk as He walked" fits with Luke 4 stating that it was Jesus' custom to lead out in Sabbath worship. How many ways are you looking for to find a position in contradiction to Bible details?? (Throw away that shovel).

At least start with the Bible details so obvious that Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to them. Why make it so hard on yourself?

If I were determined not to read much of the Bible and just wanted the easiest position - I would start with the part so easy that Bible scholars on both sides of a given debate freely admit to them. How does one NOT see that?

 

[Major1]

BobRyan said: ↑
And where is "Do not take God's name in vain"?Ex 20:7
and where is "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
and where is "do not have any other gods" ?

- none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

What is your point???



On the contrary it goes STRAIGHT to the obvious point -- - none of the commands related to man's obligation to God are listed in Matt 19 or in Romans 13.

Matt 19 is not a case of Christ saying to take God's name in vain or to ignore the 4th commandment.

Bob.....By citing some of the Ten Commandments, Jesus clarified that He was speaking about God’s commands, not the commands of the Sanhedrin.

Now, because Christ did not directly refer to four commandments, is it alright to break them? For instance, is it acceptable to worship other gods? To swear, break the Sabbath or covet? The answer: of course not!

James 2:10:
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

However......and the root of the whole discussion is that the Law was not given to the Church. The 10 Commandments were given to the children of Israel.

The Israelites were commanded to keep the Sabbath holy. However, no command for Christians to keep the Sabbath is found in the New Testament.

Now.....YOU and every single SDA believers can observe and worship on the Sabbath!
I do not care even one little bit! All I am saying is that you can not do it and say the Bible demands it!!!!!

We can banter back and forth all day but the truth is that There is no command in the Bible to keep the Sabbath nor was it practiced prior to the giving of the Law on Mount Sinai. ALL Scripture verses merely document God’s resting from His work on the seventh day.
Now YOU and I both know that!!!!!!!!

The Sabbath was ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Ex. 20:8-11and was given to The nation of Israel and was commanded by God to have a complete day of worship and rest. PEROID!

If you want to follow the Law as given to the nation of Israel then by all means do it!

Exodus 31:13-17.......
“ Speak you also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. … 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."

 

[Major1]

On the contrary - your objections are against the very Sabbath details that SDAs agree with the Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations where they also freely admit to the 7th day Sabbath for mankind and the TEN written on the heart. So not just the Bible details where SDAs agree with all the other Bible Sabbath keeping denominations but you object to even the ones where we agree with Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations!!

In fact it is pretty hard to find any point where your position is not at all identifying anything unique to SDA doctrine, when it comes to the Sabbath

Good grief!

 

[Ceallaigh]

You shot your own argument in the foot when you admit that commandments NOT mentioned by Jesus in Matt 19 -- continue to apply. (Basically you just made my argument). That was my whole point - what we find in Matt 19 was not some sort of "new tiny Bible being invented on the spot" - rather Jesus gives specific examples that pertain only to "Love your neighbor as yourself" and entirely ignored all the ones based on "Love God with all your heart" in Matt 19 because He was dealing with a specific issue there.

I thought the point was that when it came to keeping the ten commandments being reiterated in the New Testament, keeping the sabbath is conspicuously missing.

Indeed - in fact He said not to accuse him of doing that at all

which is true of "Do not take God's name in vain" but is not true of the Sabbath.

Matthew 5:33 basically says not to say "I swear to God".

You statement is the real form of a strawman

In the NT We have not one "week day 1 is the LORD's day" but by contrast we have quotes directly from the Sabbath commandment several times as well as "Every Sabbath" Gospel preaching.

Ignoring the details in these posts is not helping as much as you might have at first hoped.

I think you're confusing me with Major1

 

[BobRyan]

Bob.....By citing some of the Ten Commandments, Jesus clarified that He was speaking about God’s commands, not the commands of the Sanhedrin.

There is no way that Jesus thought "do not take God's name vain" was a Sanherin command to be avoided. I think with both know that.

Rather He specifically dealing with "Love your Neighbor as yourself" related issues because this is where the man that has come to him -- is most seriously flawed and most likely to see a flaw if pointed out to him.

Now, because Christ did not directly refer to four commandments, is it alright to break them? For instance, is it acceptable to worship other gods? To swear, break the Sabbath or covet? The answer: of course not!

Indeed - Matt 19 cannot be used as a kind of template-tiny-Bible telling us to ignore all of God's Word except what we find there.

However......and the root of the whole discussion is that the Law was not given to the Church.

Jesus does not say anything in Matt 19 along the lines of "The Law was not given to the church" - you are into eisegesis at that point.

The 10 Commandments were known to Jeremiah and his readers so when his NEW Covenant says that "God writes His law" on the heart and mind. And it is "the Law" known to Jeremiah and the one that includes the TEN having "honor your father and mother as the first Commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2