When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?

[dlamberth]

Thought I'd try this out to see where it went.
I have some questions that I’m wondering how you all might answer.

The basic question I'm asking is "When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?"

Was it at the moment of the Big Bang?
Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang?
Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth?
Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists?
What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe?
The religious? What would you say?
The spiritual minded folks? Same question.
Any other ideas?

 

[Ophiolite]

Thought I'd try this out to see where it went.
I have some questions that I’m wondering how you all might answer.

The basic question I'm asking is "When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?"

Was it at the moment of the Big Bang?
Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang?
Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth?
Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists?
What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe?
The religious? What would you say?
The spiritual? Same question.
Any other ideas?

When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?" I have little idea. Taking the more likely notion surrounding abiogenesis and subsequent evolution we might suspect somewhere about 3 billion years ago.
Was it at the moment of the Big Bang? There is no evidence to suggest there was
Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang? There is no evidence to suggest there was
Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth? In parallel is an odd way to put it. It evolved as an integral part of some of the creatures (and not the first).
Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists? There is no evidence to suggest this is so.
What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe? More or less what I said in my first response, with some outliers.
The religious? Which religion? There seem to be an enormous range of views, even within a single religion.
What would you say? I think I've said it twice now.
The spiritual? I have never knowingly seen the answer to that presented anywhere. It seems such an odd question, I am wondering if I have misunderstood what you are asking.

 

[HTacianas]

Thought I'd try this out to see where it went.
I have some questions that I’m wondering how you all might answer.

The basic question I'm asking is "When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?"

Was it at the moment of the Big Bang?
Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang?
Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth?
Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists?
What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe?
The religious? What would you say?
The spiritual? Same question.
Any other ideas?

Since you asked what would I say, I say consciousness entered when God breathed the breath of life into mankind as represented by Adam. It was mankind's destiny to commune with God, and it was through that consciousness that he would accomplish it. But mankind fell and did not live up to his potential.

 

[dlamberth]

The spiritual? I have never knowingly seen the answer to that presented anywhere. It seems such an odd question, I am wondering if I have misunderstood what you are asking.

You misunderstood the question because I didn't put it down clearly.
I've gone back and edited it.
Thanks for highlighting it.

 

[dlamberth]

Since you asked what would I say, I say consciousness entered when God breathed the breath of life into mankind as represented by Adam. It was mankind's destiny to commune with God, and it was through that consciousness that he would accomplish it. But mankind fell and did not live up to his potential.

Thanks. I get the God's Breath image that you drew and use it in other ways. What I'm wondering about now though, is what about the animals created before Adam? Did they have to wait around a bit for that spark of consciousness until the moment that God breathed life into mankind?

 

[Bradskii]

Thought I'd try this out to see where it went.
I have some questions that I’m wondering how you all might answer.

The basic question I'm asking is "When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?"

Was it at the moment of the Big Bang?
Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang?
Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth?
Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists?
What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe?
The religious? What would you say?
The spiritual? Same question.
Any other ideas?

It might be a good idea to define it up front. I've got an idea that people will have different definitions. The standard definition might be 'self awareness'. But then we have the problem of determining what creatures have it so we can work out when it likely emerged.

 

[Sabertooth]

Consciousness predates the natural Universe [Genesis 1:1].
If you are talking among creatures, it would be Day 5, the birds & the sea creatures [Genesis 1:20-22].

 

[Shemjaza]

When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?" I have little idea. Taking the more likely notion surrounding abiogenesis and subsequent evolution we might suspect somewhere about 3 billion years ago.
Was it at the moment of the Big Bang? There is no evidence to suggest there was
Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang? There is no evidence to suggest there was
Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth? In parallel is an odd way to put it. It evolved as an integral part of some of the creatures (and not the first).
Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists? There is no evidence to suggest this is so.
What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe? More or less what I said in my first response, with some outliers.
The religious? Which religion? There seem to be an enormous range of views, even within a single religion.
What would you say? I think I've said it twice now.
The spiritual? I have never knowingly seen the answer to that presented anywhere. It seems such an odd question, I am wondering if I have misunderstood what you are asking.

Mostly agree with this assessment... I feel that 3 billion is a little optimistic.

Plants, single celled life and many animals function fine with just reactive behavior and no consciousness.

I'd assume it predates the Cambrian, but not by a vast amount.

(But as always with ancient life, particularly the soft bodied, it's really hard to know.)

 

[SelfSim]

i) "When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?"
Around the same time humans first started talking about 'the Universe'.
ii) Was it at the moment of the Big Bang?
No. I think we humans have been aware of our own consciousness (and been talking about it) way before the term 'Big Bang' (a model) meant anything.
iii) Did consciousness exist before the Big Bang?
Yes. The Big Bang is only a fairly recent model.
iv) Did consciousness evolve into existence in parallel with the first creatures here on Earth?
No. Philosophers have been talking and writing about their thoughts about what consciousness is, for only thousands of years.
v) Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists?
Consciousness is not a useful parameter for our models of the universe. It adds nothing much which can be shown as resulting in useful predictions. Consciousness as part of QM measurement models might be a useful parameter to add though.
vi) What does science say about when consciousness entered the Universe?
See my above responses.
vii) The religious? What would you say?
Just about anything, I'd reckon(?)
viii) The spiritual minded folks? Same question.
Answers would be the same as for religious thinkers, I would think(?)
ix) Any other ideas?
Give us a context if your trying to get clarity on the meanings of any ideas.

 

[Bradskii]

i) "When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?"
Around the same time humans first started talking about 'the Universe'.

We weren't conscious before we had a concept of the universe?

Like I said upstream, we really should define what we mean by it. If it's simply being self aware then we were obviously that when all we knew was our immediate environment.

 

[SelfSim]

We weren't conscious before we had a concept of the universe?

When there was no concept of the universe, consciousness couldn't have already entered it now, could it? What the universe means, has changed many times. Which version of that are we talking about? The night sky? The LCDM universe?, The Solar System? The multiverse?, Etc.
The fact that what it means has changed, is evidence that its a model under our human control .. not a fixed, absolute thing, (although 'a thing' may have been exactly all it meant, initially).

Like I said upstream, we really should define what we mean by it. If it's simply being self aware then we were obviously that when all we knew was our immediate environment.

But 'knowing our immediate environment' wasn't in the question. Knowing our immediate environment, is another model, entirely.

 

[Ophiolite]

Mostly agree with this assessment... I feel that 3 billion is a little optimistic.

Plants, single celled life and many animals function fine with just reactive behavior and no consciousness.

I'd assume it predates the Cambrian, but not by a vast amount.

(But as always with ancient life, particularly the soft bodied, it's really hard to know.)

I wasn't referring to consciousness on Earth, but consciousness on some other planet, anywhere in the universe. I'm basing that on estimates (leaning to the pessimistic) on when the first terrestrial planets formed and then adding a further five billion years for conscious life to evolve. I've not considered alternate life forms in radically diferent environments, since that would be territory that would make wild guesses look like rock solid facts.

 

[Bradskii]

When there was no concept of the universe, consciousness couldn't have already entered it now, could it?

The universe exists whether we have a concept of it or not. When we became conscious, that consciousness became part of the universe.

The universe may exist within a higher dimensional existence. We have no concept of it but our consciousness exists within it.

 

[Shemjaza]

I wasn't referring to consciousness on Earth, but consciousness on some other planet, anywhere in the universe. I'm basing that on estimates (leaning to the pessimistic) on when the first terrestrial planets formed and then adding a further five billion years for conscious life to evolve. I've not considered alternate life forms in radically diferent environments, since that would be territory that would make wild guesses look like rock solid facts.

That's fair.

 

[SelfSim]

The universe exists whether we have a concept of it or not.

Yep .. thats the Big Belief, all right. One that is held onto sooo tightly .. Pretty much a religious faith too.

When we became conscious, that consciousness became part of the universe.

That's a model which works .. (There are others).
(By the way, it wasn't us that became conscious there also).

The universe may exist within a higher dimensional existence. We have no concept of it but our consciousness exists within it.

Yawn! Got any more bed-time stories?

 

[Ophiolite]

The universe exists whether we have a concept of it or not. When we became conscious, that consciousness became part of the universe.

The universe may exist within a higher dimensional existence. We have no concept of it but our consciousness exists within it.

@SelfSim is a conscious entity Jim, but not as we know them.*

*See his response to your post for supporting evidence.

 

[Bradskii]

Yep .. thats the Big Belief, all right. One that is held onto sooo tightly ..

So if we all die, then the universe...ceases to exist?

 

[jacknife]

So if we all die, then the universe...ceases to exist?

You ever play the Legend of Zelda link's awakening?

 

[durangodawood]

So if we all die, then the universe...ceases to exist?

You have entered the selfsim rabbit hole. He's discussing from a different paradigm of the nature of reality than the rest of us. Its almost like he's using a different language. I'm not even saying he's wrong. Just that the discussion always means something different to him than to the rest of us.

 

[durangodawood]

...Does the Universe itself have a consciousness that exist because the Universe exists?...

I dont even understand what this would mean.

Is the universe an understanding or aware "self"? Is that the idea?