When did “consciousness” enter the Universe?

[Astrid]

I don't think there is any question about evolution other than whether or not it is consciously directed.

For me-
No evidence
No explanatory power
The grim spectre of infinite regress
Adds up a question not worth asking.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

For me-
No evidence
No explanatory power
The grim spectre of infinite regress
Adds up a question not worth asking.

Because you can have no answer that fits your model?

 

[Astrid]

Because you can have no answer that fits your model?

Who said model?

No, because it makes sense, and it works.

It applies to many things.

Religion /metaphy not, as they say incl.

 

[Bradskii]

"We speak of the evolution of Life in Matter, the evolution of Mind in Matter; but evolution is a word which merely states the phenomenon without explaining it. For there seems to be no reason why Life should evolve out of material elements or Mind out of living form, unless we accept the Vedantic solution that Life is already involved in Matter and Mind in Life because in essence Matter is a form of veiled Life, Life a form of veiled Consciousness. And then there seems to be little objection to a farther step in the series and the admission that mental consciousness may itself be only a form and a veil of higher states which are beyond Mind. In that case, the unconquerable impulse of man towards God, Light, Bliss, Freedom, Immortality presents itself in its right place in the chain as simply the imperative impulse by which Nature is seeking to evolve beyond Mind, and appears to be as natural, true and just as the impulse towards Life which she has planted in certain forms of Matter or the impulse towards Mind which she has planted in certain forms of Life. As there, so here, the impulse exists more or less obscurely in her different vessels with an ever-ascending series in the power of its will-to-be; as there, so here, it is gradually evolving and bound fully to evolve the necessary organs and faculties." Aurobindo p. 5

If you have no objection, if someone at some point asks me what 'deepity' means, I'll direct them to this post.

And by the way, the link you gave to the pdf is a link to your hard drive. Or at least the one on your office computer. You might want to delete it as I think it includes your name.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

If you have no objection, if someone at some point asks me what 'deepity' means, I'll direct them to this post.

And by the way, the link you gave to the pdf is a link to your hard drive. Or at least the one on your office computer. You might want to delete it as I think it includes your name.

Thanks. This is all Google drive I cannot get used to.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

"We speak of the evolution of Life in Matter, the evolution of Mind in Matter; but evolution is a word which merely states the phenomenon without explaining it. For there seems to be no reason why Life should evolve out of material elements or Mind out of living form, unless we accept the Vedantic solution that Life is already involved in Matter and Mind in Life because in essence Matter is a form of veiled Life, Life a form of veiled Consciousness. And then there seems to be little objection to a farther step in the series and the admission that mental consciousness may itself be only a form and a veil of higher states which are beyond Mind. In that case, the unconquerable impulse of man towards God, Light, Bliss, Freedom, Immortality presents itself in its right place in the chain as simply the imperative impulse by which Nature is seeking to evolve beyond Mind, and appears to be as natural, true and just as the impulse towards Life which she has planted in certain forms of Matter or the impulse towards Mind which she has planted in certain forms of Life. As there, so here, the impulse exists more or less obscurely in her different vessels with an ever-ascending series in the power of its will-to-be; as there, so here, it is gradually evolving and bound fully to evolve the necessary organs and faculties."The Life Divine " Aurobindo p. 5

"... there seems to be no reason why Life should evolve out of material elements or Mind out of living form..." Just goes to show that starting from an admission of ignorance of the subject is unlikely to be productive, particularly when you use it to shoehorn in unsubstantiated suppositions. A lack of understanding doesn't mean that 'anything goes' and your pet idea must be right.

A wise man would understand that. It's known as 'garbage in, garbage out'.

 

[SelfSim]

"... there seems to be no reason why Life should evolve out of material elements or Mind out of living form..."

As an aside, you may find interesting, (and in keeping with your suggested process definition of life), this paper, which was recently published in the Journal of Molecular Medicine:
The Multiple Paths to Multiple Life
Its sort of an architecture modelling type way of coming up with a life definition which, interestingly, ends up including viruses. I'm not sure I agree with their idea of life arising mulitple times, without some kind of tangible evidence though .. (although its possible).