Israel - Vaccination Rate Doesn’t Seem To Impact The Infection Rate

[JustSomeBloke]

Having done some similar analysis myself on the UK data, and found a less than compelling case for vaccination, I can't say I'm really surprised to find that the same type of analysis on Israeli data suggests that the vaccines might not be very effective.

An initial review of the data surprised the analysts. A summary follows a review of some examples. The first one reveals the week of June 27th to July 3rd in the age cohort 20-29 years old. According to the data in this cohort, those new COVID-19 cases involving individuals fully vaccinated totaled 79%. How about the percentage of this population that’s fully vaccinated? It turns out to be 78%, indicating that at least for this cohort, the vaccination rate doesn’t seem to impact the infection rate.


In another cohort, aged 30-39 from the week of June 27th to July 3rd, the new COVID-19 cases percentage involving people fully vaccinated came out at 80% while the percentage of the population in that age group fully vaccinated came in at 83%.


In yet another example from the week of July 27th to July 3rd in the 40-49 years old age group, new COVID-19 cases involving fully vaccinated people totaled 84%, and the percentage of the population in this age group that were fully vaccinated stood at 86%.

A breakdown for all age groups is given in the table below:

The complete article can be read by clicking here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is an extremely new "news" site. There should be a story about this from a more reliable source. Does the AP support this claim?

 

[JustSomeBloke]

This is an extremely new "news" site. There should be a story about this from a more reliable source. Does the AP support this claim?

They've been around since 2018, so clearly not purely motivated by COVID. Anyway, your criticism is a Genetic Logical Fallacy.

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.​

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
​

When will people like you ever learn to judge information on its merits, rather than its origin? I have called people out numerous times on stuff like this, and the logical fallacies still keep coming.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They've been around since 2018, so clearly not purely motivated by COVID. Anyway, your criticism is a Genetic Logical Fallacy.

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.​

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
​

When will people like you ever learn to judge information on its merits, rather than its origin? I have called people out numerous times on stuff like this, and the logical fallacies still keep coming.

LOL! So wrong. It is always a give away when people mess up their logical fallacies.

I never claimed that the site was wrong. I pointed out, quite correctly, that the site is too new to have a reputation yet. They don't. I checked. That does not mean that they are wrong. It only means that they are no more valid of a source than an average man on the street.

 

[Sabertooth]

Which vaccines are being used over there?
Did they, at least, have mild cases as a result?

 

[JustSomeBloke]

LOL! So wrong. It is always a give away when people mess up their logical fallacies.

I never claimed that the site was wrong. I pointed out, quite correctly, that the site is too new to have a reputation yet. They don't. I checked. That does not mean that they are wrong.

Please don't give me that rubbish excuse. You were implying that if it doesn't appear in AP, you think it's not worth attaching any significance. I've called you on your logical fallacy, now man-up, and own it, instead of wriggling.

It only means that they are no more valid of a source than an average man on the street.

#sarc on#
Yeah, I know what you mean, their panel of consultants only includes the inventor of mRNA vaccines.
#sarc off#

Dr. Robert Malone
The inventor of mRNA vaccines and RNA transfection, Dr. Malone has extensive research and development experience in the areas of pre-clinical discovery research, clinical trials, vaccines, gene therapy, bio-defense, and immunology.

If you had just spent a few minutes browsing and reading, like I did, instead of jumping in with both feet with genetic logical fallacies, you could've avoided all this. But no, you had to be the first to rush in, to try, and fail, at discrediting something that doesn't fit your dogma.

Which vaccines are being used over there?

It's in the article.

Moreover, the data indicates that the current vaccines used (Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech, AstraZeneca) may have a decreasing effect on reduced hospitalizations and death if one does get infected with the Delta variant.

 

[Andrewn]

Having done some similar analysis myself on the UK data, and found a less than compelling case for vaccination, I can't say I'm really surprised to find that the same type of analysis on Israeli data suggests that the vaccines might not be very effective.

I'm also reading concerning data from the UK and Israel. Both countries share one characteristic: early vaccination. They started vaccinating their populations early and now immunity seems to be waning out.

Even though studies show that vaccines, especially mRNA vaccines, are effective against the delta variant, we expected that immunity would be short-lived. In fact, Pfizer admitted this fact and is already applying for approval of booster shots.

As far as AZ and J&J vaccines are concerned, they're significantly less effective against delta variant.

Coronavirus in Israel: What do we know about the 143 hospitalized people?

 

[Guojing]

Having done some similar analysis myself on the UK data, and found a less than compelling case for vaccination, I can't say I'm really surprised to find that the same type of analysis on Israeli data suggests that the vaccines might not be very effective.

An initial review of the data surprised the analysts. A summary follows a review of some examples. The first one reveals the week of June 27th to July 3rd in the age cohort 20-29 years old. According to the data in this cohort, those new COVID-19 cases involving individuals fully vaccinated totaled 79%. How about the percentage of this population that’s fully vaccinated? It turns out to be 78%, indicating that at least for this cohort, the vaccination rate doesn’t seem to impact the infection rate.


In another cohort, aged 30-39 from the week of June 27th to July 3rd, the new COVID-19 cases percentage involving people fully vaccinated came out at 80% while the percentage of the population in that age group fully vaccinated came in at 83%.


In yet another example from the week of July 27th to July 3rd in the 40-49 years old age group, new COVID-19 cases involving fully vaccinated people totaled 84%, and the percentage of the population in this age group that were fully vaccinated stood at 86%.

A breakdown for all age groups is given in the table below:

The complete article can be read by clicking here.

The objective of the vaccine is not to reduce infection rate.

Its to reduce the rate of people needing to be hospitalized and under oxygen support

 

[Gregory Thompson]

They've been around since 2018, so clearly not purely motivated by COVID. Anyway, your criticism is a Genetic Logical Fallacy.

You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.​

This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
​

When will people like you ever learn to judge information on its merits, rather than its origin? I have called people out numerous times on stuff like this, and the logical fallacies still keep coming.

Sounds like the "Label something so you can dismiss it" fallacy

If it's not a reputable source, then it's not news.

 

[FireDragon76]

The main point of vaccination is to reduce the death rate. Vaccinated people can still become infected and even spread the virus, even if the viral load and severity of illness is lower. But they are much less likely to end up in the hospital or ICU, which is important for lowering overall mortality and economic damage.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please don't give me that rubbish excuse. You were implying that if it doesn't appear in AP, you think it's not worth attaching any significance. I've called you on your logical fallacy, now man-up, and own it, instead of wriggling.


#sarc on#
Yeah, I know what you mean, their panel of consultants only includes the inventor of mRNA vaccines.
#sarc off#

Dr. Robert Malone
The inventor of mRNA vaccines and RNA transfection, Dr. Malone has extensive research and development experience in the areas of pre-clinical discovery research, clinical trials, vaccines, gene therapy, bio-defense, and immunology.

If you had just spent a few minutes browsing and reading, like I did, instead of jumping in with both feet with genetic logical fallacies, you could've avoided all this. But no, you had to be the first to rush in, to try, and fail, at discrediting something that doesn't fit your dogma.


It's in the article.

Moreover, the data indicates that the current vaccines used (Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech, AstraZeneca) may have a decreasing effect on reduced hospitalizations and death if one does get infected with the Delta variant.

Nope not a r"rubbish excuse ". You screwed up and use a logical fallacy incorrectly.

Try again.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

I'm also reading concerning data from the UK and Israel. Both countries share one characteristic: early vaccination. They started vaccinating their populations early and now immunity seems to be waning out.

Even though studies show that vaccines, especially mRNA vaccines, are effective against the delta variant, we expected that immunity would be short-lived. In fact, Pfizer admitted this fact and is already applying for approval of booster shots.

As far as AZ and J&J vaccines are concerned, they're significantly less effective against delta variant.

LOL! How very convenient! Jabs forever! It's like giving the pharmaceuticals industry a license to print money!

Or maybe the trials were crooked, and the vaccines never really worked. One of the trials was performed entirely by Israeli Ministry of Health employees and pharmaceuticals employees. The vested interests were painfully obvious

The objective of the vaccine is not to reduce infection rate.

Its to reduce the rate of people needing to be hospitalized and under oxygen support

The trials were never designed to prove that the vaccines can do that.

Covid-19 vaccine trials cannot tell us if they will save lives

So it would hardly be surprising if the vaccines failed in any of that.

Sounds like the "Label something so you can dismiss it" fallacy

If it's not a reputable source, then it's not news.

Actually that's known as the 'Fallacy Fallacy'. But seeing as Subduction Zone never provided a proper and logical rebuttal of the article, and simply relied on a Genetic Logical Fallacy, I'm still the winner.

Good grief! How much more of this arrant nonsense do I have to put up with?

The main point of vaccination is to reduce the death rate. Vaccinated people can still become infected and even spread the virus, even if the total viral load is lower. But they are much less likely to end up in the ICU.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vaccines turn out not to have much impact on deaths either. Certainly the UK data I looked at suggests that might be the case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sounds like the "Label something so you can dismiss it" fallacy

If it's not a reputable source, then it's not news.

If a site has no reputation then it is neither convincing or unconvincing. It is mere an opinion until they have earned either a good or bad reputation. I tried to follow links in the article, but they were in Hebrew.

But let's try to reason logically. If the story is true one should be able to find the same story in reliable sources. Ones that have demonstrated that they do not lean right or left. That was why I asked if the AP had anything on it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

LOL! How very convenient! Jabs forever! It's like giving the pharmaceuticals industry a license to print money!

Or maybe the trials were crooked, and the vaccines never really worked. One of the trials was performed entirely by Israeli Ministry of Health employees and pharmaceuticals employees. The vested interests were painfully obvious

A lot of ghost stories have been coming out in the name of Israel in regards to the vaccine. Based on previous information patterns on the internet, it's most likely fraudulent information.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If a site has no reputation then it is neither convincing or unconvincing. It is mere an opinion until they have earned either a good or bad reputation. I tried to follow links in the article, but they were in Hebrew.

But let's try to reason logically. If the story is true one should be able to find the same story in reliable sources. Ones that have demonstrated that they do not lean right or left. That was why I asked if the AP had anything on it.

I was saying, it's not "news"

it could be viewed as any other personal website on the internet.

 

[FireDragon76]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vaccines turn out not to have much impact on deaths either. Certainly the UK data I looked at suggests that might be the case.

It's already had a huge impact in countries like the US and Canada. States with high vaccination rates have far lower death rates due to COVID.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A lot of ghost stories have been coming out in the name of Israel in regards to the vaccine. Based on previous information patterns on the internet, it's most likely fraudulent information.

Which is why I like to find a reputable source before I make a full judgment. Of course for that reasonable stance, I did not confirm or deny the OP, I was attacked by what appears to be a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Which is why I like to find a reputable source before I make a full judgment. Of course for that reasonable stance, I did not confirm or deny the OP, I was attacked by what appears to be a conspiracy theorist.

I don't mind holding out for some real information either.

 

[rubyshoes]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vaccines turn out not to have much impact on deaths either. Certainly the UK data I looked at suggests that might be the case.

What data are you looking at? Our UK death rate in comparison to infection rate had plummeted compared to what it was pre vaccine.

The last time we hit 40,000 new infections per day (January time), we had a 7 day average of over 1000 deaths per day. This time we have hit 40,000 new infections a day with a 7 day average of 55 deaths per day

 

[JustSomeBloke]

If a site has no reputation then it is neither convincing or unconvincing. It is mere an opinion until they have earned either a good or bad reputation. I tried to follow links in the article, but they were in Hebrew.

But let's try to reason logically. If the story is true one should be able to find the same story in reliable sources. Ones that have demonstrated that they do not lean right or left. That was why I asked if the AP had anything on it.

So you'd rather listen to the AP than one of the inventors of mRNA vaccine technology?

By the way, the pro-vaxxers are so desperate to get jabs into everyone, they even re-wrote Wikipedia to remove the inventor's name. But I suppose you'll just apply your Genetic Logical Fallacy to that too.

I give up. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

P.S. There's no such thing as totally impartial media. The idea that you're waiting for a source that doesn't 'lean right or left' is laughable.

I was saying, it's not "news"

it could be viewed as any other personal website on the internet.

You should know by now that nobody who is even a tiny bit sceptical of covid vaccines ever gets media time or space. The fact that the MSM don't want to listen to the person who invented mRNA vaccines tells you just how corrupt the MSM are.

I don't mind holding out for some real information either.

LOL! You really don't get it do you!

What data are you looking at? Our UK death rate in comparison to infection rate had plummeted compared to what it was pre vaccine.

I started a thread on that.