The nonsense of "faith produces works"

[Titus Dorn]

Hello, 5thKingdom.

I would like to answer your question to, Biblebeliever 1611

 

[Titus Dorn]

Since regeneration is NOT because of the will of man...
then HOW does man acquire the (saving) faith you speak of?

This is the Biblical answer to your question,
Romans 10:17
So then Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible teaches we get Faith from hearing the gospel. Therefore faith comes from understanding the gospel of Jesus Christ when we hear it read to us or spoken to us by one who has already learned it.

 

[timothyu]

Therefore faith comes from understanding the gospel of Jesus Christ when we hear it read to us or spoken to us by one who has already learned it.

Would that not imply they haver added an opinion? Some go on about salvation gospel, others promote the Gospel of the Kingdom, others have other ideas. IMO it is not about what others have learned but about what it says.

 

[5thKingdom]

This is the Biblical answer to your question,
Romans 10:17
So then Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible teaches we get Faith from hearing the gospel. Therefore faith comes from understanding the gospel of Jesus Christ when we hear it read to us or spoken to us by one who has already learned it.

First, who in the world are "we"?


1) Do "we" represent those who reject Christ?
2) Do "we" represent unsaved "tares" in the church (sown by Satan)
3) Do "we" represent those God "chose/elected" before the earth


You see... you must first IDENTIFY who "we" represent.


The problem you have is not understanding the CONTEXT of the
passage only includes a small portion of those who hear the Gospel.
Have you never read:


Many are called [many are "called" by the Gospel]
But few are chosen [few are "chosen" to be saved]


So... when you THINK you understand something about a Biblical
doctrine, then you must TEST your theory against all related verses.
If any verse contradicts your theory then you know (at best) you
have only found some partial-truth... and not Biblical Truth.


So.... yes, God uses Scripture to save "us".
But that "us" only includes those "chosen/elected" before the world.
The word "us" does not include Jews or Moslems or Buddhists or
Hindus or Atheists or Secular Humanists or the "tares" withing the
Christian church which are sown by Satan [Mat 13]


Which brings us to the SECOND problem of your statement.
Everyone in the church hears the Gospel... but few are saved.
So that shows there is something more to salvation than just
hearing the Scriptures. God also has to open our hearts and
give us the will and ability to understand the Scriptures in order
that we be saved.


In other words: 100 people can HEAR the same Gospel and
only 10 of them are saved. Why is that? Your statement does
not reflect that reality. Because you assumed that MAN decides
whether to "believe" or not when the Bible insists it is GOD (not man)
that decides who CAN hear and who CAN believe.


Read Mark 4:11-12 again (carefully)
The men HEARD the Gospel but remain unsaved.
Obviously they were never part of "we" since they were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.


They were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" the Gospel, they were
NEVER MEANT to "understand" the Gospel (that they heard) and
they were NEVER MEANT to "be converted" and they were also
NEVER MEANT "to have their sins forgiven".


So to say salvation comes by HEARING the Gospel...
is to only say a partial-truth because the Bible is clear
that MANY hear the Gospel but only FEW are "chosen"
or "elected" to perceive/understand/be converted and
have their sins forgiven.


Do you not know God CREATED some men to be
"vessels of mercy" and other men to be "vessels of wrath"?
Some are CREATED to be "vessels of honor" and others are
CREATED to be "vessels of dishonor". [Rom 9]


The Gospel of the Bible is more complicated than you suggest
with the notion that men who hear the Gospel can DECIDE
whether they will be saved or not. That is the age-old
heresy of synergism.


Jim

 

[Titus Dorn]

Would that not imply they haver added an opinion? Some go on about salvation gospel, others promote the Gospel of the Kingdom, others have other ideas. IMO it is not about what others have learned but about what it says.

No Sir, I did not intend for there to be any room for personal opinions.

God says what He means and means what He says.

The scriptures must be allowed to interpret themselves. No one can come to the knowledge of the truth by opinions. God teaches us through His sacred word that His revelation can be understood and God even commands that we learn and understand it!

Timothy was said to have: 2Timothy 3:15 " from a child known the Holy scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation "

Paul taught we can understand the Bible: Ephesians 3:4 "Whereby when ye read, ye may UNDERSTAND my knowledge in the mystery of Christ."

The main cause of all the misunderstanding of not knowing the scriptures is simply a lack of diligent study:
2Timothy 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a WORKMAN that needeth not be ashamed, rightly DIVIDING the word of truth.

Since the word of God must be rightly divided, it must be also true that it can be wrongly divided. Wrongly divided comes from man's ignorant opinions.

God expects us to understand His will: Ephesians 5:17
Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Why would God give us His book containing His will for us, command us to read it and understand it, then make it impossible for us to understand as the calvinist teach?

 

[Titus Dorn]

Thank God the gospel is much more simpler and logical than the false teachings of John Calvin and his followers.

with the notion that men who hear the Gospel can DECIDE
whether they will be saved or not. That is the age-old
heresy of synergism.

What does Paul have to say about how we acquire faith in Jesus and His word?

Does he teach we must first have a miracle worked on us by His Holy Spirit that we may have faith?

Or does Paul teach we ourselves get faith from mentally understanding the gospel that is preached to us?

Heres the answer,

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by HEARING and HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

Paul teaches we get faith from the hearing the word of God.

Nowhere does Paul say God must first work a miracle on us to understand in order to have fairh.

The Bible teaches faith comes from the word not directly from Holy Spirit baptism.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"Faith does not produce perfection." True.



"We are not saved through works." True.



"Faith does not equal works." True.


"Faith does not produce works." False.

If faith produced works then there’s no point in Jesus’ message in John 15:1-7.

 

[timothyu]

God says what He means and means what He says.

I agree and yet man with our theology keeps diverting to focus on ourselves, from what Jesus said, that God was coming back to depose man as governors of this world and take the seat Himself. Empire builders don't like that idea, even within Christianity itself.

 

[timothyu]

Why would God give us His book containing His will for us, command us to read it and understand it, then make it impossible for us to understand as the calvinist teach?

I agree and as said above, it is man that continually steps in and gets in His way, putting ourselves and out wants before the will of God and what He wants.

 

[Titus Dorn]

I agree and yet man with our theology keeps diverting to focus on ourselves, from what Jesus said, that God was coming back to depose man as governors of this world and take the seat Himself.

I am glad you agree only God and His Word has all authority. That leaves none for man.

 

[timothyu]

I am glad you agree only God and His Word has all authority. That leaves none for man.

I added to that quote in case you want to change your mind "Empire builders don't like that idea, even within Christianity itself."

 

[Titus Dorn]

First, who in the world are "we"?


1) Do "we" represent those who reject Christ?
2) Do "we" represent unsaved "tares" in the church (sown by Satan)
3) Do "we" represent those God "chose/elected" before the earth


You see... you must first IDENTIFY who "we" represent.


The problem you have is not understanding the CONTEXT of the
passage only includes a small portion of those who hear the Gospel.
Have you never read:


Many are called [many are "called" by the Gospel]
But few are chosen [few are "chosen" to be saved]


So... when you THINK you understand something about a Biblical
doctrine, then you must TEST your theory against all related verses.
If any verse contradicts your theory then you know (at best) you
have only found some partial-truth... and not Biblical Truth.


So.... yes, God uses Scripture to save "us".
But that "us" only includes those "chosen/elected" before the world.
The word "us" does not include Jews or Moslems or Buddhists or
Hindus or Atheists or Secular Humanists or the "tares" withing the
Christian church which are sown by Satan [Mat 13]


Which brings us to the SECOND problem of your statement.
Everyone in the church hears the Gospel... but few are saved.
So that shows there is something more to salvation than just
hearing the Scriptures. God also has to open our hearts and
give us the will and ability to understand the Scriptures in order
that we be saved.


In other words: 100 people can HEAR the same Gospel and
only 10 of them are saved. Why is that? Your statement does
not reflect that reality. Because you assumed that MAN decides
whether to "believe" or not when the Bible insists it is GOD (not man)
that decides who CAN hear and who CAN believe.


Read Mark 4:11-12 again (carefully)
The men HEARD the Gospel but remain unsaved.
Obviously they were never part of "we" since they were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.


They were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" the Gospel, they were
NEVER MEANT to "understand" the Gospel (that they heard) and
they were NEVER MEANT to "be converted" and they were also
NEVER MEANT "to have their sins forgiven".


So to say salvation comes by HEARING the Gospel...
is to only say a partial-truth because the Bible is clear
that MANY hear the Gospel but only FEW are "chosen"
or "elected" to perceive/understand/be converted and
have their sins forgiven.


Do you not know God CREATED some men to be
"vessels of mercy" and other men to be "vessels of wrath"?
Some are CREATED to be "vessels of honor" and others are
CREATED to be "vessels of dishonor". [Rom 9]


The Gospel of the Bible is more complicated than you suggest
with the notion that men who hear the Gospel can DECIDE
whether they will be saved or not. That is the age-old
heresy of synergism.


Jim

All of your argument is based on the false premise that God must "open our hearts" miraculously through Holy Spirit baptism.

You have not yet given any verses for this belief. You start with this premise as being Biblical and build your theology upon it.

First prove by scripture that God gives us faith directly through a miraculous operation of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:17 teaches the opposite, we get faith from the hearing of the word.

Your doctrine says we first are regenerated by a miracle: direct operation of the Holy Spirit.

Regeneration means saved.

So the order of how one is saved in calvinism is:

1.) Totally depraved man who hates all that is Godly.

2.) God has preselected this man as one of His elect.

3.) At some point in this mans life God will perform a miracle on him by giving him the baptism of the Holy Spirit, at this instance he is regenerated, his nature is transformed from total depravity to morally upright desiring to serve God for the rest of this life and the next.

4.) Only now does he have the ability to come to faith by God giving him this ability and understand the scriptures.

So, you have in calvinism the man being regenerated ie saved before faith.

This can be shown easily to be unscriptual.

Also if God Himself directly gives us faith and not ourselves through hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and believing it. Then God has created us without a free will. He makes all of our choices for us. God made the choice that we would believe. We therefore have no free will to choose God.

Does the scriptures teach we are regenerated ie saved before we have faith?

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED.

Paul clearly shows us in Romans 10 verse 9 that being saved first must come Faith, then we are saved. John Calvin's doctrine has the order reversed!

Paul teaches further nakes it clear that to even believe in Jesus one must first hear the gospel of Jesus Chirst. His Word, Romans 10:17.

Romans 10:-13-14
For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? (Sounds real familiar, Romans 10:17)

And how shall they hear without a preacher?

It must be shown somewhere in Paul's writings that he puts regeneration before faith for Calvin's doctrine to be correct.

Nowhere does Paul teach a miracle is performed by the Holy Spirit that regenerates us first, therefore saved, then we are able to have faith in God.

If so, provide the scriptures?

Also if Paul ever taught what Calvin taught anywhere in his epistles he would contradict the verses that I have already provided.

Paul has already taught multiple times faith cometh before regeneration.

For regeneration to occur before faith, Paul must be proven false.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Please show where Paul taught we are miraculously regenerated before faith?

Also that a miracle must occur for God to give us faith?

 

[timothyu]

The land is rife with crime and oppression. The old government has fallen and a new one must be formed. Will the people chose the same old system of man that never resolves the crime and oppression but thrives on it... or will it chose one that allows no other way but loving all as self, caring for others, seeking no gain at the expense of others?
Since the Garden, man has chosen the first but in the end only those who see the latter as being the wiser system, will be allowed in the final land governed by God. Man has never succeeded in overcoming the results of our self interest, so that governance will have no place or support in the new world.

The choice remains ours and in that world there won't be political forums where people call each other down as their respective leaders trade places in governing. No room for our nonsense in the Kingdom.

 

[Titus Dorn]

Message for whoever comes across this message,

Hello, my name is Titus Dorn I live in Indiana,

I just tested my temperature, it is running at 100 degrees.

Have not gone to have covid test yet. Hoping to get through the night and go in the morning.

If I die, I want every one on this forum to know that I love you and hope you all will seek the truth. Just as our merciful, Almighty God, I desire that all men everywhere be saved!

If you will seek the truth, God promises you will find the truth,

Matthew 7:7-8,

7-8
Ask and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you:

For everyone that asketh receiveth and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Love everyone both friend and foe, take care Titus Dorn

 

[5thKingdom]

The land is rife with crime and oppression. The old government has fallen and a new one must be formed. Will the people chose the same old system of man that never resolves the crime and oppression but thrives on it... or will it chose one that allows no other way but loving all as self, caring for others, seeking no gain at the expense of others?
Since the Garden, man has chosen the first but in the end only those who see the latter as being the wiser system, will be allowed in the final land governed by God. Man has never succeeded in overcoming the results of our self interest, so that governance will have no place or support in the new world.

The choice remains ours and in that world there won't be political forums where people call each other down as their respective leaders trade places in governing. No room for our nonsense in the Kingdom.

---


You obviously do not understand about the events at the
"time of the end" [Dan 12:8-10].. or fulfillment of the "mysteries"
of Daniel's prophecies and the "Abomination of Desolation" being
"placed" or "set-up". That's a shame. It was something to see.


BTW: Man does not determine the course of history.
History is the reflection of God's Salvation Program and
it is God's Providence that directs the course of history,
not men. Men are neither sovereign nor autonomous.
That was Satan's Big Lie in the garden... and still today.


This was true during the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom
And true during the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
And true during the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13]
And true during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]... also shown as the Revelation Beast AND Daniel's
Fourth Kingdom/Beast AND Satan's "Little Season".


The Bible provides (literally) DOZENS of different perspectives
of this same time period and these same people... those living
on earth when the Lord Returns.


In any case, the "time-of-the-end" (or "Season and Time")
[Dan 7:11-12] has already been written in stone and - as the
Bible absolutely PROMISED the last saints "shall understand"
these things [Dan 12:8-10] and the Lord Jesus Christ PROMISED
these last saints "shall see all these things", meaning the fulfillment
of ALL Great Tribulation "signs" or "prophecies" [Mat 25:15,33]


Please note, in Matthew 25:33 the Lord Jesus Christ PROMISED
the last saints - living on earth when He Returns - "shall see" not
just some... but "all of these things" come to pass.


We (last saints) have already seen Rev 19:20 fulfilled.
And we are now waiting to see Rev 20:10 be fulfilled.


You can see the events which happen BETWEEN fulfillment
of Rev 19:20 (which is past) and Rev 20:10 (almost here)...
in chapters 1.2 and 1.3 below (pay close attention to 1.3)

https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1


Jim
.

 

[timothyu]

Was just talking about the choices that God gave mankind

 

[5thKingdom]

Was just talking about the choices that God gave mankind

The choices God gave was to ADAM.
Adam rebelled against God and chose to follow Satan.
In that day Adam died spiritually (shown by him being
kicked out of the Garden - representing God's Kingdom)
And Adam (and all his offspring) became spiritually DEAD.


Being spiritually DEAD our "free will" is to always sin...
as that is our "sin nature" until we are regenerated.


Which is why we all need to be "born again" as we are
translated OUT of Satan's Kingdom of Babylon and INTO
the Kingdom of God. This is all very basic and essential elecment
of Christian theology ... it's called "Original Sin".


Because all men are born spiritually dead. God must take
out our stoney heart a- nd give us a new heart when He
regenerates us. Natural man is not capable of ever
understanding the things of God UNTIL they are
"born again". [Jn 6:44, 6:37, 6:39]


1Co_2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Romans 3:10-12
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


Your confusion (and contradiction of Scripture) is the result of you
following a false synergetic heresy... instead of understanding and
following the monergistic Gospel of the Bible)


NO MAN can come to God unless the Father first "draw them".
ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come to Jesus and
NONE will be lost - no, not even one.


That is what the Gospel of the Bible teaches.
And that is what the saints have proclaimed since the time
of the Apostles.


There is no "free choice" to DEAD men captive to Satan.
The "free choice" begins AFTER regeneration... no man can
even "see" the Kingdom of God UNLESS/UNTIL they have been
regenerated (born again). Christian theology 101.


Jim

 

[timothyu]

Which is why we all need to be "born again" as we are
translated OUT of Satan's Kingdom of Babylon and INTO
the Kingdom of God. This is all very basic and essential elecment
of Christian theology ... it's called "Original Sin".

Which is nothing more than setting aside the self serving ways of the flesh (man) for the ways of God (spirit) two opposing systems. As I said, ever since the Garden God has given us two choices, our way or His. When man realizes that following of our ways leads to trouble, and compares them to God's answer to our backwards thinking , then the choice should be obvious, repentance made of man's ways, allegiance given to God's ways, and off we go in a new direction. Original sin and all sin for that matter is simply the result of putting our will ahead of the will of God. We create the Establishment in our own image and God gives us a minority followed counter-culture made in His image. Even Christianity is composed of the two opposing factions because it is made up of man.

 

[5thKingdom]

Which is nothing more than setting aside the self serving ways of the flesh (man) for the ways of God (spirit) two opposing systems.

First, there are NOT two (2) opposing systems.
There are literally THOUSANDS of false "gospels" of synergism
and there is only ONE Biblical Gospel of Truth. You have already
gone astray when you think there's only "two opposing systems".


NO.... man cannot "set aside" his DEAD spirit.
It requires GOD WORKS before anything happens...
including ANY "good work". Regeneration precedes any
repentance. Regeneration is not contingent on a work of man.
"His Sheep" were NAMED (elected/chosen) before the world began.


Although all of the false synergistic heresies contradict Scripture
and pretend that MAN decides if he was "elected" - and then GOD
is OBLIGATED to transfer their spirit from DEATH into LIFE...
(from the Kingdom of Satan INTO the "Kingdom of God")... just
because that man said the "sinner's prayer". That is hilarious,
you pretend DEAD men (captive to Satan) can just "decide"
(which is a "work") to save themselves. Complete heresy.


It makes MAN the initiator of GRACE, instead of God.
Man cannot "see" the Kingdom of God unless/until they are
"born again"... you have the Gospel exactly backward where
God is secondary and is OBLIGATED to act whenever WE SAY...
I find it hard to understand how any serious Bible "student"
could ever take such blatant heresy seriously.
But all the "tares" believe this heresy.


Church history shows your "gospel" of synergism was rejected
(a) while the Apostles preached and it was rejected as heresy again
when (b) it was declared heresy by the (Protestant) churches. Your
heresy has a very long history of being rejected by the "wheat" in
the church while it's accepted by the "tares" in the church. It is the
very reason we now have THOUSANDS of Protestant churches
teaching this heresy (along with the false Roman Catholic gospel,
which is also a synergistic "gospel")


It was always PART of the Gospel - that "tares" would infiltrate
the "wheat" of the church and the "leaven" of their false doctrines would corrupt the Gospel so that MOST of the churches become heretical... you can prove this reality (to yourself) easily by reading
Revelation chapters 2 & 3 which show the "churches" were corrupted
from the start. Passages about the "time-of-the-end" [Dan 12]
show corruption only increases when all the "lost sheep" are found
and all the saints have been "sealed". In fact, the Bible is clear that
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" can not start until AFTER the last saint has been "sealed/saved" [Rev 7:1-3].


BTW: that Biblical fact (alone) contradicts MANY of the
false "gospels" taught in churches today. Exactly as predicted
in passages about events occurring during the Great Tribulation.


Your confusion about HOW we are transferred from death to life
is the same confusion that all synergistic heresies have... it directly
contradicts the Word of God. See below - your argument is with
God - and your argument is with Scripture (not with me).

As I said, ever since the Garden God has given us two choices

Again, that's hilarious... "two choices". LOL.
Did Lazarus have the "choice" of remaining DEAD
or "choosing" to become alive. You can continue to repeat
synergistic heresy... it does not make your delusion Biblical truth.


Even a little Biblical history demonstrates your heresy.
During the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Matt 22:2] were
Gentiles being saved? - could they "decide" to translate their
spirit OUT of Satan's Kingdom and into the "Kingdom of God"?
Of course that does not even pass the "giggle test"...
so WHY do you pretend otherwise with the NT?


Jesus was very clear [Mat 13] the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
consists of MANY unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan and destined
to the SAME fire as Satan - Mat 25:43) and relatively FEW "wheat"
(sown by God and destined to eternal life).


And yet you pretend the "tare" (sown by Satan) can just "decide"
to become a "wheat" (sown by God). That notion is not found
anywhere in the Gospel of the Bible, no-matter how much you wish.


Truth contradicts your heretical synergism - which is WHY you are
now (and forever) diminished to the degree you must intentionally
IGNORE what the Bible establishes in God's Word - in order for you
to protect your heresy. You IGNORE Scripture to PROTECT heresy.


God provides DOZENS of passages showing a synergistic doctrine
contradicts the NATURE of man - and the MEANS of salvation.
The first being repentance is a PRODUCT of having been regenerated
and never the CAUSE of that regeneration. Theology 101.


Regardless of whether you LIKE this Biblical reality or not.
Regardless of whether you ACCEPT Bible Truth or not.
You are only repeating the same old synergistic heresy
that Satan always uses - you can "be like God".


Men cannot be sovereign and autonomous - only God can.
Man cannot "be like God" unless he is "elected/chosen"
(by God's Good Pleasure) before the world began...
I will now demonstrate your folly in three (3)
different passages.


(#1) What part of 1Co 2:14 did you not understand?
The natural man (before regeneration) can do nothing
to change his DEAD spirit. Dead is dead...
does that reality confuse you?


1Co_2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.


And that is why, (in both the OT and NT) God insists that
(wait for it.....) NO MAN will ever seek God before regeneration,
"No, not even one". Please tell me WHAT PART of "NO MAN"
do you not understand?


Rom 3:10-12
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


Please tell me WHAT PART of Romans 3:10-12 confuses you?
Why do you intentionally ignore Scriptures that contradict your
synergistic heresy... you do so because you MUST in order to
protect your synergistic heresy. "NO MAN" is as clear as it gets.
Then God's emphasizes that reality, by saying "No, not even one".


(#2) Please tell me WHAT PART of John 6 confuses you when
it established that "NO MAN" (not even one) will ever come to
Christ unless the Father FIRST "draws" them... and "ALL MEN"
the father draws "shall come" to Jesus - and NONE OF THEM
can ever be lost. I already gave you those Scriptures and now
you MUST (you are forced to) intentionally ignore the very
Words of Christ - in order to protect your heretical synergism.


So, "NO MAN" can come to Christ unless the Father FIRST
"draws" them, and "ALL MEN" who are drawn "shall come"
and Jesus loses "NONE" of them... not even one.


And (#3) the Lord Jesus clearly explained [Mark 4:11-12]
that some men were NEVER MEANT to ever "perceive"
the Gospel, they were NEVER MEANT to ever "understand"
the Gospel, they were NEVER MEANT to ever "be converted"
by the Gospel or to ever "have their sins forgiven" by God.


You see... your synergistic false "gospel" is a direct contradiction
of the monergistic Biblical Truth - which is the Word of God. You
must do what you are doing now... you intentionally ignore
all the Scriptures that directly contradict you heresies.


You see... your heresy says ALL MEN and ANY MAN
has the ability to become saved. And yet Mark 4 contradicts
that most basic and essential element of your heresy... establishing
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved.


Listen, I have been preaching for almost 50 years and I believe God
when He says FEW men are given understanding of Biblical Truth.
So I am NOT trying to change your mind because your words
demonstrate you were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" Truth.
I am only showing how you contradict Scriptures, and
how you also intentionally ignore Scriptures.


I am just illustrating a few of the heresies you teach
and showing you are neither capable or qualified
to "perceive" these Biblical "mysteries".
Only the "elect" can understand.
It has always been this way.


Remember that Jesus PROMISES that many/most who
call Him "Lord" are people NEVER MEANT to be saved.
You should believe that Jesus was not lying about that.
[Mat 7:21-23 and Luke 13:23-30 and Mat 25:1-13]


So, while I have no expectation of you being able to "perceive",
I am also commanded to refute (with Scripture) your heresy,
and that is what I have done above.


You offer ZERO passages saying Gentiles were being saved
during the Jewish Gospel and you offer ZERO passages saying
unsaved "tares" in the church can ever become saved. You do
what all heresies must do - intentionally ignore all the Scriptures
that contradict your false "gospel". We are known by our "fruit".
And our "fruit" includes both our behaviors and doctrines.


Jim

 

[timothyu]

You have already
gone astray when you think there's only "two opposing systems".

God's way and man's adversarial ways

you have the Gospel exactly backward where
God is secondary and is OBLIGATED to act whenever WE SAY...

I never said that but if it fits into your sermon, go ahead

Again, that's hilarious... "two choices". LOL.

That's right. Carry on in the adversarial spirit of man or repent of it and follow the will of God


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