The nonsense of "faith produces works"

[New Testament Christian]

New Creation Church, since you are so keen.

Like pulling teeth, Guojing!

Now show me New Creation church in the New Testament?

 

[New Testament Christian]

My question to you is, if there is only one way to understand, which is yours, why didn't Peter use that in his reply in Acts 11:2 onwards?

Peter and the Jewish believers obviously did not understand Mark 16:15-16 the way you understood it.

I dont have a doctrine of my own.

I follow the doctrine of Christ,

 

[Guojing]

All creature does not mean all creature, REALLY,!!

Go into all the world does not mean all the world, REALLY?

It becomes more apparent to believe your doctrine you must believe the scriptures don't mean what they say!

Peter did not teach Mark 16:15-16 to Cornelius? Really?

Why was Cornelius commanded to be water baptized by Peter then?

A gentile getting water baptized, sound familiar, Acts 2:38?

You don't understand my point is it?

If Mark 16:15-16 is to be understood like how you understand it:

1. Why did Peter tell Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be with gentiles in Acts 10?
2. Why didn't Peter use your understanding of Mark 16:15-16 in his reply to the circumcised believers in Acts 11?

 

[New Testament Christian]

You don't understand my point is it?

If Mark 16:15-16 is to be understood like how you understand it:

1. Why did Peter tell Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be with gentiles in Acts 10?
2. Why didn't Peter use your understanding of Mark 16:15-16 in his reply to the circumcised believers in Acts 11?

This is why it is of no effect to discuss the scriptures with you.

I have answered some of your points.

You just ignore and go on to your next attempt to prove your doctrine correct. It does not work that way Sir.

Now you claimed Peter did not teach Mark 16:15-16 to Cornelius.

Yet he did!

Acts 10:37-38
...and he commanded them to be baptized....

Exactly what Jesus said, Mark 16:15-16.

Ok, every creature is not every creature

Go into all the world is not all the world.

Do you think you can convince me the scriptures don't say what they mean and mean what they say?

 

[Guojing]

This is why it is of no effect to discuss the scriptures with you.

I have answered some of your points.

You just ignore and go on to your next attempt to prove your doctrine correct. It does not work that way Sir.

Now you claimed Peter did not teach Mark 16:15-16 to Cornelius.

Yet he did!

Acts 10:37-38
...and he commanded them to be baptized....

Exactly what Jesus said, Mark 16:15-16.

Ok, every creature is not every creature

Go into all the world is not all the world.

Do you think you can convince me the scriptures don't say what they mean and mean what they say?

Well if you still fail to understand my point, we can move on then.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Well if you still fail to understand my point, we can move on then.

Nah, I understand

You, are going to defend your churches man made doctrines till you finally realize your wrong.

No man may ever help you see you're deceived,
I just hope it's not Jesus on judgment day.

Matthew 7:21-23

 

[Guojing]

Nah, I understand

You, are going to defend your churches man made doctrines till you finally realize your wrong.

No man may ever help you see you're deceived,
I just hope it's not Jesus on judgment day.

Matthew 7:21-23

If Mark 16:15-16 is to be understood like how you understand it:

1. Why did Peter tell Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be with gentiles in Acts 10?
2. Why didn't Peter use your understanding of Mark 16:15-16 in his reply to the circumcised believers in Acts 11?

You addressed neither of the 2 points I have asked you.

 

[New Testament Christian]

You addressed neither of the 2 points I have asked you.

It was unlawful for Jews to keep company with gentiles. They were considered unclean.

Why didn't Peter use my understanding of the gospel in Mark 16:15-16 to the Jews in Acts 11?

Guojing, Are you not aware Cornelius was the first Gentile to be taught Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16?

Jesus did teach all the world was to hear His gospel in Mark 16:15-16.

This was to occur when God sent Peter to preach Mark 16:15-16 to Cornelius.

You reject that Cornelius was preached the gospel that Jesus commanded His apostles to preach in Mark 16:15-16. Cornelius' conversion confirmed Jesus' teaching in Mark 16:15-16.

Matthew 24:14
And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM will be preached IN ALL THE WORLD AS A WITNESS TO ALL NATIONS, AND THEN THE END WILL COME.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I honestly think the idea that true faith somehow automatically produces works is complete nonsense. I believe that doing works is a result of your own free will and free choice. If you truly have faith, you will not become a robot that is automatically programmed to do everything right. That is sinless perfectionism and it's a false teaching. No-one is perfect, we are all sinners and we are still sinful even after salvation. The Bible says there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

The Bible teaches that we are saved through faith and not through works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

So if we are saved through faith, but we are not saved through works, that should prove that faith has absolutely nothing to do with works. They are two totally separate things. If we are saved through faith, but we are not saved through works, then the logical conclusion is that faith does not equal works. We can do good works to earn rewards in heaven but none of that can ever be a payment for sin. Salvation has to be 100% through Jesus Christ. He is the way, the truth and the life.

What good is faith without love and who has both faith and love without works?

 

[New Testament Christian]

What good is faith without love and who has both faith and love without works?

Right on, right on, right on!!!

 

[Guojing]

It was unlawful for Jews to keep company with gentiles. They were considered unclean.

Why didn't Peter use my understanding of the gospel in Mark 16:15-16 to the Jews in Acts 11?

Guojing, Are you not aware Cornelius was the first Gentile to be taught Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16?

Jesus did teach all the world was to hear His gospel in Mark 16:15-16.

This was to occur when God sent Peter to preach Mark 16:15-16 to Cornelius.

You reject that Cornelius was preached the gospel that Jesus commanded His apostles to preach in Mark 16:15-16. Cornelius' conversion confirmed Jesus' teaching in Mark 16:15-16.

Matthew 24:14
And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM will be preached IN ALL THE WORLD AS A WITNESS TO ALL NATIONS, AND THEN THE END WILL COME.

So it is unlawful for Peter to associate himself with gentiles, and yet Jesus instructed Peter to preach to gentiles?

You can preach to gentiles without associating with them? How does that work?

 

[New Testament Christian]

So it is unlawful for Peter to associate himself with gentiles, and yet Jesus instructed Peter to preach to gentiles?

You can preach to gentiles without associating with them? How does that work?

Well, Guojing if you would read Acts chapter 10 and Acts chapter 11 it explains your misunderstanding of Peter and his preaching the gospel to gentiles.

God explained your question to Peter in Acts 10:9-29.

Acts 10:28
Then he said to them, You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

 

[Guojing]

Well, Guojing if you would read Acts chapter 10 and Acts chapter 11 it explains your misunderstanding of Peter and his preaching the gospel to gentiles.

God explained your question to Peter in Acts 10:9-29.

Acts 10:28
Then he said to them, You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

You are still avoiding my point.

That incident, "God has shown me", only happened in the beginning part of Acts 10, with the vision about unclean animals, not during Mark 16:15-16.

Would you agree with that?

 

[New Testament Christian]

You are still avoiding my point.

That incident, "God has shown me", only happened in the beginning part of Acts 10, with the vision about unclean animals, not during Mark 16:15-16.

Would you agree with that?

So what?
That is how God chose to order his plan of salvation.

First to the Jews then later to the gentiles.

Jesus said in Mark 16:15-16 for His disciples to teach His gospel to the whole world.

Did that not happen?

Yes, it sure did happen!!! Peter obeyed Jesus and preached the one gospel of Jesus Christ to the first gentile convert, Cornelius.

Thus fulfilling Jesus' commands to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

If you dont like that Jewish followers of Christ did not immediately teach all gentiles before Cornelius' conversion.

You can take you're objection up with God on judgment day.

God chose his gospel to begin with the Jews, then to the gentiles.

And ALL people from ALL nations did hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, Jesus' disciples did exactly as He commanded in Mark 16:15-16.

The most obvious fact that Cornelius obeyed Jesus' gospel was Cornelius was commanded to be water baptized by Peter, Acts 10:47-48 ; Mark 16:15-16.

 

[Guojing]

So what?
That is how God chose to order his plan of salvation.

First to the Jews then later to the gentiles.

Jesus said in Mark 16:15-16 for His disciples to teach His gospel to the whole world.

Did that not happen?

Yes, it sure did happen!!! Peter obeyed Jesus and preached the one gospel of Jesus Christ to the first gentile convert, Cornelius.

Thus fulfilling Jesus' commands to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

If you dont like that Jewish followers of Christ did not immediately teach all gentiles before Cornelius' conversion.

You can take you're objection up with God on judgment day.

God chose his gospel to begin with the Jews, then to the gentiles.

And ALL people from ALL nations did hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, Jesus' disciples did exactly as He commanded in Mark 16:15-16.

The most obvious fact that Cornelius obeyed Jesus' gospel was Cornelius was commanded to be water baptized by Peter, Acts 10:47-48 ; Mark 16:15-16.

Okay at least you agree with that point. Let's move on, I rest my case.