Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[Saint Steven]

I see hell as what is where God isn't.

So, neither one of us has complete biblical support then?
We are one and the same. (horrors) - lol

Oops, sorry. I thought I was replying to RR.

 

[RickReads]

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

You have to be made alive for any of this to apply.

 

[zoidar]

So, neither one of us has complete biblical support then?
We are one and the same. (horrors) - lol

The Bible isn't giving us enough information to know exactly what hell is, but I think the Bible is clear enough that it's an eternal consequence. My current view is annihilation. At least I don't view hell as a place where people are literally tortured in fire.

 

[returntosender]

I haven't sent anyone not one person after you. You've done that all on your own. . You ought to know by now that you can't fool everyone. i have always told you exactly how I feel about you. Unlike you, I don't stab you in the back. It's easy to figure out who you have been talking to. I have miss judged him.

 

[Saint Steven]

You have to be made alive for any of this to apply.

That's the lens I was writing about. That is clearly not what it plainly says.

It says, "When you were dead... God made you alive... having cancelled the charge of our legal indebtedness... on the cross... he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."

A done deal before we were even born. Paid in full.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

 

[Saint Steven]

I haven't sent anyone not one person after you. You've done that all on your own. . You ought to know by now that you can't fool everyone. i have always told you exactly how I feel about you. Unlike you, I don't stab you in the back. It's easy to figure out who you have been talking to. I have miss judged him.

Still reading my posts I see. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

The Bible isn't giving us enough information to know exactly what hell is, but I think the Bible is clear enough that it's an eternal consequence. My current view is annihilation. At least I don't view hell as a place where people are literally tortured in fire.

Right, not enough information and even conflicting information. Annihilation is the more human position than ECT. But it falls short of Ultimate Redemption. (UR) WWJD?

 

[zoidar]

That's the lens I was writing about. That is clearly not what it plainly says.

It says, "When you were dead... God made you alive... having cancelled the charge of our legal indebtedness... on the cross... he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."

A done deal before we were even born. Paid in full.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ (How? We were made alive when we came to faith in Him.). He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross (all this refers to believers). 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[/QUOTE]

 

[Saint Steven]

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ (How? We were made alive when we came to faith in Him.). He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross (all this refers to believers). 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

[/QUOTE]
This is what happens when you view scripture through a presumptive lens. You have to make insertions in what it plainly says to make it work for you.

This scripture clearly communicates that it is not about us at all. Christ did this for us on the cross. Thousands of years before we were even born.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's the lens I was writing about. That is clearly not what it plainly says.

It says, "When you were dead... God made you alive... having cancelled the charge of our legal indebtedness... on the cross... he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."

A done deal before we were even born. Paid in full.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

 

[zoidar]

This is what happens when you view scripture through a presumptive lens. You have to make insertions in what it plainly says to make it work for you.

This scripture clearly communicates that it is not about us at all. Christ did this for us on the cross. Thousands of years before we were even born.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's the lens I was writing about. That is clearly not what it plainly says.

It says, "When you were dead... God made you alive... having cancelled the charge of our legal indebtedness... on the cross... he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."

A done deal before we were even born. Paid in full.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Yes, but Paul says you, the Christians. When they were dead in sins they were made alive. In what way are those that don't know Christ alive? They don't live a new life.

I agree it could be understood as you do, but I think the understanding I use is the correct one.

 

[Servus]

You have to be "in the mood" to share scriptures? - lol

Knocked out of the saddle that easily? Wow.

Have you been PMing with Roxanne?
There is something familiar about this whole thing.
She has sent others to plague me several times in the past. (over 10 years)
Are you her latest pawn?

Oh so that's the Roxanne who's emails keep showing up in my junk folder.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, but Paul says you, the Christians. When they were dead in sins they were made alive. In what way are those that don't know Christ alive? They don't live a new life.

I agree it could be understood as you do, but I think the understanding I use is the correct one.

But that would be a claim that the atonement was only for the saved. Not so.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[John Mullally]

[QUOTE="RickReads, post: 76069194, member: 430647"As for your verse, yes the sins of the whole world have been atoned for. But I believe that you have to seek the atonement in order to receive it.[/QUOTE]That is pretty much the view I hear in the Christian circle that I am in.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.​

 

[RickReads]

That's the lens I was writing about. That is clearly not what it plainly says.

It says, "When you were dead... God made you alive... having cancelled the charge of our legal indebtedness... on the cross... he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."

A done deal before we were even born. Paid in full.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

What you are calling the lens is the question, "what does it mean to be made alive in Christ."

The Biblical answer, be born again.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


This action is the circumcision of the heart, it`s the infusion of the Holy Spirit to transform a believer into a new creature in Christ.

If someone doesn`t have this then they are still dead.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[zoidar]

But that would be a claim that the atonement was only for the saved. Not so.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The atoning sacrifice is for everyone, I agree there, but the sins of a person are not borne away until he is justified by faith, from my understanding

 

[returntosender]

Still have a big head. I was reading Rick's. You are blocked if I am signed in. Unfortunately I saw your nastiness but i am glad as I found out cormack is a gossip, funny.

 

[returntosender]

Oh so that's the Roxanne who's emails keep showing up in my junk folder.

So you are a liar too? You just proved it. How would I have your email?

 

[Saint Steven]

What you are calling the lens is the question, "what does it mean to be made alive in Christ."

Again, you have to steer AWAY from the scripture quoted to make it say what you want it to say. That's my point.

This scripture CLEARLY says that Christ did this (again, Christ did this) ON THE CROSS. He cancelled the debt of our legal indebtedness ON THE CROSS. He took it away ON THE CROSS. He disarmed the powers and authorities ON THE CROSS. He triumphed over them ON THE CROSS. Where do you find us in this equation? What did we do? NOTHING.

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

 

[RickReads]

So you are a liar too? You just proved it. How would I have your email?

He`s yanking your chain.

 

[Saint Steven]

So you are a liar too? You just proved it. How would I have your email?

So, you are accusing me of being a liar? That's rich.

MMXX said: ↑
Oh so that's the Roxanne who's emails keep showing up in my junk folder.