More than 150 Houston hospital workers fired or quit after refusing COVID-19 vaccine

[expos4ever]

Ok, this explains overcounting in Covid deaths, but doesn't explain why the same methods aren't being applied to vaccination deaths.

Fair question, but it is pretty easy to see why what you are suggesting does not make sense. I want to think about how to word my reply, so no answer yet.

 

[Aldebaran]

Which hospital ICU

Which hospital ICUs are being filled with vaccinated people suffering from serious side effects? Is it anything like we have seen with covid-19 infections?

I didn't say anything about any particular hospital ICU. But the patient would obviously go to the one that's in their area.

 

[FireDragon76]

Two other people understood it. So far.



If these vaccines can turn some into asymptomatic spreaders, how does that work with your plaint?

The vaccines greatly reduce the possibility of spreading the disease.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm surprised we're not hearing from people on the Left complaining that all these health care workers who have been hailed as heroes not too long ago are now being fired from their jobs by a hospital system that obviously sees these workers as disposable.

Heroes get vaccinated so they don't make other people sick.

 

[Aldebaran]

Heroes get vaccinated so they don't make other people sick.

Then I guess that makes me more of a hero than the doctors and nurses that worked long overtime hours during the pandemic to keep as many people alive as possible. Just because I got a shot, and some of the doctors and nurses didn't.

BTW, since doctors and nurses actually work in healthcare and see the people and the illnesses they come into the hospitals with, and the effects of vaccines on people, doesn't it make you wonder why so many of them are electing to not get the vaccine?

 

[FireDragon76]

Then I guess that makes me more of a hero than the doctors and nurses that worked long overtime hours during the pandemic to keep as many people alive as possible. Just because I got a shot, and some of the doctors and nurses didn't.

BTW, since doctors and nurses actually work in healthcare and see the people and the illnesses they come into the hospitals with, and the effects of vaccines on people, doesn't it make you wonder why so many of them are electing to not get the vaccine?

Very few doctors and nurses are refusing to be vaccinated.

 

[Aldebaran]

Very few doctors and nurses are refusing to be vaccinated.

153 at a single hospital is quite a few.
153 Hospital Workers Quit Or Were Fired Because They Refused To Get COVID Vaccines

 

[FireDragon76]

153 at a single hospital is quite a few.
153 Hospital Workers Quit Or Were Fired Because They Refused To Get COVID Vaccines

It's about 1 percent of all those working at the hospital. That is only a few, and certainly not representative of the doctors and medical staff as a whole.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I self-reported to VAERS that the vaccine turned me into a newt.

I got better.

Burn her anyway.

 

[trunks2k]

It's about 1 percent of all those working at the hospital. That is only a few, and certainly not representative of the doctors and medical staff as a whole.

And not all of that number were doctors and nurses. That number includes people like janitors, security people, etc. And even if you go to the people that provide some sort of care, you have people like nurses aides.

 

[expos4ever]

BTW, since doctors and nurses actually work in healthcare and see the people and the illnesses they come into the hospitals with, and the effects of vaccines on people, doesn't it make you wonder why so many of them are electing to not get the vaccine?

I think it is important to unpack this a little. With all respect to nurses, they, as a body, are likely not particularly qualified to render an informed judgment on the vaccines. Do you have any actual data to quantify the degree of hesitancy, and how that breaks down between doctors and nurses?

Here are the result of one study:

Among 2,761 respondents (72% female, average age, 44), 2,233 (80.9%) accepted the vaccine. Physicians, environmental services workers and healthcare managers were more likely to accept vaccination compared to nurses

While 81% is not 100%, this particular study suggests the strong majority of health care workers do accept the vaccine. And, as I suspected, hesitancy is higher among nurses who are, I am quite certain, generally not nearly as qualified as a doctor would be in assessing vaccine safety.

 

[expos4ever]

153 at a single hospital is quite a few.
153 Hospital Workers Quit Or Were Fired Because They Refused To Get COVID Vaccines

How many of these 153 were non-medical types (janitors, clerks, orderlies, etc.)?

 

[cow451]

Then I guess that makes me more of a hero than the doctors and nurses that worked long overtime hours during the pandemic to keep as many people alive as possible. Just because I got a shot, and some of the doctors and nurses didn't.

BTW, since doctors and nurses actually work in healthcare and see the people and the illnesses they come into the hospitals with, and the effects of vaccines on people, doesn't it make you wonder why so many of them are electing to not get the vaccine?

It is an extremely small percentage. But thanks for caring.

 

[cow451]

For those keeping score at home.....https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...covid-deaths-in-us-are-now-among-unvaccinated

 

[Hank77]

I didn't say anything about any particular hospital ICU. But the patient would obviously go to the one that's in their area.

Surely if serious side effects of the vaccine were so prevalent that they could compare to the serious side effects of the actual virus the patients would be stacking up in the ICUs like they do with the covid 19 virus.

Lung transplants are saving covid 19 patients around the country.

 

[expos4ever]

I want to address a very legitimate question that Aldebaran raised re counting. As you may know, there was a time when everyone (in the UK, I believe) who died - even if hit by a truck - within 28 days of getting a positive covid test was considered a covid death. Even though this seems suspicious, and even though the anti-vaxxers have leapt all over this, there is, I believe, a solid explanation as to why this is indeed a "fair" way to count covid deaths. I have provide such an explanation in this thread. Fine.

The question that Aldebaran raised was "why is it not appropriate, then, to count everyone who has died within 28 days of a vaccine as a vaccine-caused death?". Fair question.

Let's look at covid first. Let's say that 5% of all people over 60 who test positive for covid will die because of covid. Let's say that 80% of those who die due to covid will die within 28 days. Let's suppose you get a positive test result on 1 January. Your odds of being dead by the end of January are then 0.80 x 0.05 = 0.04 (4%). What are your odds of dying of something else? Let's say we restrict ourselves to people over 60 and assume that everyone will be dead by 80 in the absence of covid. Doing some simple math, your odds of dying in that same month of January from something other than covid is about 1 in 250 - 0.4% (there are about 250 months in the 20 years from 60 to 80 and you will necessarily die in one of those months).

This is the key takeaway: assuming that you do die in January, it is about 10 times more likely that you will die of covid than of something else - remember, in this scenario, you tested positive on January 1st. This shows why this "count every death within 28 days of a positive covid test" strategy is actually not unreasonable.

What about vaccines now? Same idea - you get vaccinated on 1 January and you are dead by the end of January. Are you ten times as likely to have died of the vaccine as of any other reason?

I suggest the answer is obviously no. And, therefore, it would not be reasonable to count every death within 28 days of a vaccine as vaccine-caused death. In order for your death to have been 10 times as likely to be vaccine-caused as "other-cause" caused, the vaccine would need to kill 4 % of the 60 and over people who take it within a month.

And that is not remotely the case.

 

[cow451]

I want to address a very legitimate question that Aldebaran raised re counting. As you may know, there was a time when everyone (in the UK, I believe) who died - even if hit by a truck - within 28 days of getting a positive covid test was considered a covid death. Even though this seems suspicious, and even though the anti-vaxxers have leapt all over this, there is, I believe, a solid explanation as to why this is indeed a "fair" way to count covid deaths. I have provide such an explanation in this thread. Fine.

The question that Aldebaran raised was "why is it not appropriate, then, to count everyone who has died within 28 days of a vaccine as a vaccine-caused death?". Fair question.

Let's look at covid first. Let's say that 5% of all people over 60 who test positive for covid will die because of covid. Let's say that 80% of those who die due to covid will die within 28 days. Let's suppose you get a positive test result on 1 January. Your odds of being dead by the end of January are then 0.80 x 0.05 = 0.04 (4%). What are your odds of dying of something else? Let's say we restrict ourselves to people over 60 and assume that everyone will be dead by 80 in the absence of covid. Doing some simple math, your odds of dying in that same month of January from something other than covid is about 1 in 250 - 0.4% (there are about 250 months in the 20 years from 60 to 80 and you will necessarily die in one of those months).

This is the key takeaway: assuming that you do die in January, it is about 10 times more likely that you will die of covid than of something else - remember, in this scenario, you tested positive on January 1st. This shows why this "count every death within 28 days of a positive covid test" strategy is actually not unreasonable.

What about vaccines now? Same idea - you get vaccinated on 1 January and you are dead by the end of January. Are you ten times as likely to have died of the vaccine as of any other reason?

I suggest the answer is obviously no. And, therefore, it would not be reasonable to count every death within 28 days of a vaccine as vaccine-caused death. In order for your death to have been 10 times as likely to be vaccine-caused as "other-cause" caused, the vaccine would need to kill 4 % of the 60 and over people who take it within a month.

And that is not remotely the case.

A poster understands statistics.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You can't really blame people for not wanting to take a covid vaccine. I certainly wouldn't.

View attachment 301247

Covid Statistics Death

VAERS isn't a reliable source...it's unverified claims that populate a database that's entirely user-submitted. It's no more reliable than Yelp.

I went into this in great detail in another thread when another user tried to use it to justify their anti-vaccine position in another thread a while back...

VAERS - Report an Adverse Event Step 1

This is the link where people can submit it, it requires no proof of causation, and literally anyone can fill it out based on what they "think" happened... you could fill out a false report right now if you really wanted to, and it'd be available in the downloadable spreadsheets within a few days.


And if you want a sample of just how reliable that data is... they have an option to download the entire database for 2021 in an easy to read CSV file.

But just a few highlights of some of these totally reliable VAERS submissions of adverse covid vaccine reactions...

"About 5 hrs after receiving vaccine muscle ache in shoulder. Penis reduced in size, length, and circumference is significant since following day and pain in penal area from day 3 and day 5 most noticeable. Shape of penis has changed (noticed on day 4 due to an erection) and the skin has become loose with the size reduction (like baggy pants.)" -- a very scientific description, and totally not a 16 year old kid trying to make cheesy anatomy jokes.

"Explosive Diarhea and a touch of the AIDS" -- I'm glad this person only got 'a touch' of the AIDS and not full blown AIDS...that could've been serious...and they almost spelled diarrhea correctly.

"I feel like <***> dude!" -- a very thorough assessment, I'm sure that's the official terminology they teach in med school.

"666 Blood clots, heart attack, died 5 times survived, Blood is very thick blood thinners unable to thin" -- yeah, I'm sure that happened.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'd be interested to see the breakdown in positions/profession among these hospital workers that are refusing...


I've seen some anti-vaccine activists use these types of descriptions/surveys before, and they always use the broad terms like "hospital workers" or "medical workers" -- knowing that the general reader will read that and just assume "Doctor or RN".
(the most popular attempt was when they were all linking the "40% of Medical Workers are hesitant about the vaccine" articles)

"Medical Worker" could mean Chief Neurosurgeon or Pulmonologist (two positions that require decades of training/expertise), or it could mean a CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant), which is a position that can be attained after knocking out a 4 week training course... or an LPN which only requires a year of training and has almost no training (if any?) in the field of immunology.

It could also mean other state licensed positions that are kinda/sorta tied in with the field, like Chiropractors (who have a well established anti-vaccine bias)

"Hospital Worker" is even more vague, the guy who does HVAC maintenance at the facility is a "Hospital Worker", their opinion on vaccines shouldn't be given any more weight than an HVAC guy who does work a grocery store.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think it is important to unpack this a little. With all respect to nurses, they, as a body, are likely not particularly qualified to render an informed judgment on the vaccines. Do you have any actual data to quantify the degree of hesitancy, and how that breaks down between doctors and nurses?

Here are the result of one study:

Among 2,761 respondents (72% female, average age, 44), 2,233 (80.9%) accepted the vaccine. Physicians, environmental services workers and healthcare managers were more likely to accept vaccination compared to nurses

While 81% is not 100%, this particular study suggests the strong majority of health care workers do accept the vaccine. And, as I suspected, hesitancy is higher among nurses who are, I am quite certain, generally not nearly as qualified as a doctor would be in assessing vaccine safety.

Nurses may not be "as qualified" as doctors, but they sure are closer to being qualified that pretty much everyone else in society, including the politicians. The nurses administer the shots, and have more face-to-face time with patients than doctors do. It's not as if they're in the dark about medical issues.