JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[HARK!]

Give scripture that teaches God speaks directly apart from His word today?

When Yah speaks; it is his word. It doesn't matter what day it is.

 

[Titus Dorn]

When Yah speaks; it is his word. It doesn't matter what day it is.

Now I understand why you believe the way you do. Jesus is speaking directly to you apart from His word.

 

[HARK!]

Now I understand why you believe the way you do. Jesus is speaking directly to you apart from His word.

(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

 

[klutedavid]

Context:

Circumcision

Incorrect, circumcision and the law are together.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."

 

[klutedavid]

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-34
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."

Yahshua is quoting the Shema:

(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

What is the love of YHWH?

What did YHWH say?

From the Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

What did Daniel say?

(CLV) Dn 9:4
I prayed indeed to Yahweh my Eloah. I confessed and said intensely, Oh, Yahweh, the great and fear inspiring El, Keeper of the covenant and the benignity for those loving Him and keeping His instructions:

What did Nehemiah say?

(CLV) Ne 1:5
I said: Oh, Yahweh Elohim of the heavens, the great and fear-inspiring El, Who is keeping the covenant and the benignity with those loving Him and observing His instructions,

What did Yahshua say?

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:21
He who has My precepts and is keeping them, he it is who is loving Me. Now he who is loving Me will be loved by My Father, and I shall be loving him and shall be disclosing Myself to him."

What did those who Yahshua taught say?

(CLV) 1Jn 5:2
In this we know that we are loving the children of God, whenever we may be loving God and may be doing His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

What precepts do you see in John's first letter?

 

[HARK!]

Incorrect, circumcision and the law are together.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."

Did you even follow the link? What James commanded was of the Law of Moses.

Faith precedes obedience. The story of Abraham makes this quite clear.

Circumcision is an outward sign of what has taken place within, much like baptism.

Circumcision is a seal of faith.

(CLV) Ro 4:11
And he obtained the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which was in uncircumcision, for him to be the father of all those who are believing through uncircumcision, for righteousness to be reckoned to them,

Yet in absence of the change within, through faith, circumcision and baptism mean nothing.

On the flip side faith without works is dead.

 

[HARK!]

What precepts do you see in John's first letter?

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

Do you view the fact that John didn't list all of YHWH's precepts, one by one, in his first letter as some kind of loophole to skirt around what YHWH himself said?

He made it clear that we heard it from the beginning, in his second letter, for those who didn't catch on the first time.

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

Who came first, John or Moses?

(CLV) Dt 30:11
For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.

 

[Joy]

MOD HAT ON

After Staff Review
This Thread
is Now
Permanently Closed
RV: Flaming and Goading

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[DarylFawcett]

ADVISOR HAT ON!!!

As the thread had a clean-up by @Grumman Tomcat the thread is being re-opened.

ADVISOR HAT OFF!!!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Many thanks to those spending some time to clean up the thread @Grumman Tomcat . Thanks very much to @DarylFawcett and others for re-opening the thread. Please all friendly discussion addressing the posts and scriptures no flaming or goading other people if you may not agree with them please. Show why you may or may not agree or disagree from the scriptures.

God bless all

 

[Titus Dorn]

Matthew 5:17-19
Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to FULLFIL.
For assuredly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is FULLFILLED.Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When is the law of Moses fullfilled, completed, accomplished? Let the Bible speak for itself,

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

BUT AFTER FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR.

Jesus Christ ended the law of Moses He fullfilled, He brought it to completion. When He died on the cross.

Now we have FAITH in Him, 1Corinthians 15:1-4 and His work that He done on the cross to save us by believing in Him and His word.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes(Faith).

The ten commandments and the Sabbath are under the old law, the old covenant, the law of Moses.

Jesus has accomplished, completed and ended that old law. This must include Sabbath and the ten commandments. They are from the old law.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by FAITH in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by FAITH in Christ and NOT by the works of the law; for by the works of the law NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

Paul teaches the ten commandments and Sabbath keeping cannot justify ie save man. They have ended because they are the old law, Romans 10:4. Faith is here, the old law served its purpose.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Matthew 5:17-19
Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to FULLFIL. For assuredly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is FULLFILLED.Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When is the law of Moses fullfilled, completed, accomplished? Let the Bible speak for itself

We should always let the bible speak for itself and the bible says in the very scriptures you have provided that you are not considering in Matthew (highlighted below)..

Matthew 5:17-19 [17], THINK NOT THAT I CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS: I CAME NOT TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFILL. [18], FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS AWAY FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL THINGS BE ACCOMPLISHED. [19], WHOSOEVER THEREFORE SHALL BREAK ONE OF THESE LEAST COMMANDMENTS, AND SHALL TEACH MEN SO, SHALL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN: BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL DO AND TEACH THEM, HE SHALL BE CALLED GREAT IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

The section highlighted above is what you seem to be not considering in claiming that God’s law is abolished and no longer the standard of moral right doing when obeyed or moral wrong doing when disobeyed because it is written in the scriptures that through the law we have a knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. Jesus by saying he came to fulfill the law therefore is not saying he came to abolish or destroy God’s law according as this would be in contradiction of the scriptures in v17 because the very first thing Jesus say is “do not think that have come to destroy or abolish” the law, he came to fulfill the law. That is all the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus and are fulfilled in Him as the promised Messiah and Savior of the world who perfectly obeyed Gods’ law. The scripture also does not say or teach anywhere that Jesus perfectly obeyed God’s law so that we no longer have to and that no requirement from Gods’ law has changed according to v18 till heaven and earth passes away and all things according to God’s plan of salvation has been accomplished with v19 stating that those who teach it is now ok to break anyone of God’s laws will be called least in God’s kingdom and those who are least according to the scripture are those who are not a part of Gods’ kingdom and are lost (see 1 John 2:3-4).

According to the scriptures in Matthew Jesus did not fulfill the righteous requirements of God’s law so that we do not have to as the scriptures continue in v20 where is says For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, YE SHALL IN NO WISE ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. These are the very words of Jesus in fulfillment of Isaiah 42:21 where it is written “It pleased Jehovah, for his righteousness' sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.”

Jesus came to magnify God’s 10 commandment from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (applying adultery and murder to our thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show us that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to God’s law. Evil (moral wrong doing) begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart according to Jesus is what defiles a man in Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28.

Jesus magnified the law to the inside out. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have God’s new covenant promise to of a new heart to love and why we need to be born again by faith in God's Word for salvation to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10.

This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8. Without Jesus we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born of God to love *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's law from the inside out and applying God’s 10 commandments to our very thoughts.

Whosoever is born of god to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not commit sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news of the gospel in the new covenant. We have a Saviour to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4. So according to Matthew 5:17- 32 Jesus did not come to fulfill the law so that we no longer have to this is a teaching that Jesus warns us about in the very scriptures you quote and is a doctrine of devils that disagrees with pretty much the entire bible. Therefore according to the scripture unless we are born again from the inside out we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Titus Dorn]

We should always let the bible speak for itself and the bible says in the very scriptures you have provided that you are not considering in Matthew (highlighted below)..

Matthew 5:17-19 [17], THINK NOT THAT I CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS: I CAME NOT TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFILL. [18], FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS AWAY FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL THINGS BE ACCOMPLISHED. [19], WHOSOEVER THEREFORE SHALL BREAK ONE OF THESE LEAST COMMANDMENTS, AND SHALL TEACH MEN SO, SHALL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN: BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL DO AND TEACH THEM, HE SHALL BE CALLED GREAT IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

The section highlighted above is what you seem to be not considering in claiming that God’s law is abolished. Jesus by saying he came to fulfill is not saying he came to abolish or destroy God’s law according as this would be in contradiction of the scriptures in v17 because the very first thing Jesus say is “do not think that have come to destroy or abolish” the law, he came to fulfill the law. That is all the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus and are fulfilled in Him as the promised Messiah and Savior of the world who perfectly obeyed Gods’ law. The scripture also does not say or teach anywhere that Jesus perfectly obeyed God’s law so that we no longer have to and that no requirement from Gods’ law has changed according to v18 till heaven and earth passes away and all things according to God’s plan of salvation has been accomplished with v19 stating that those who teach it is now ok to break anyone of God’s laws will be called least in God’s kingdom and those who are least according to the scripture are those who are not a part of Gods’ kingdom and are lost (see 1 John 2:3-4).

According to the scriptures in Matthew Jesus did not fulfill the righteous requirements of God’s law so that we do not have to as the scriptures continue in v20 where is says For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, YE SHALL IN NO WISE ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

These are the very words of Jesus in fulfillment of Isaiah 42:21 where it is written “It pleased Jehovah, for his righteousness' sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.”

Jesus came to magnify God’s 10 commandment from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (applying adultery and murder to our thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show us that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to God’s law. Evil (moral wrong doing) begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart according to Jesus is what defiles a man in Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28.

Jesus magnified the law to the inside out. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have God’s new covenant promise to of a new heart to love and why we need to be born again by faith in God's Word for salvation to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10.

This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8.

Without Jesus we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born of God to love *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's law from the inside out and applying God’s 10 commandments to our very thoughts.

Whosoever is born of god to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not commit sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news of the gospel in the new covenant. We have a Saviour to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.

So according to Matthew 5:17- 32 Jesus did not come to fulfill the law so that we no longer have to this is a teaching that Jesus warns us about in the very scriptures you quote and is a doctrine of devils that disagrees with pretty much the entire bible. Therefore according to the scripture unless we are born again from the inside out we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this is helpful.

Not helpful at all since it contradicts the Bible.

Matthew 5:17-19 = Galatians 3:24-25 = Romans 10:4

For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes(Faith).

Anyone who claims that Christ did not end the law of Moses is calling him a liar.

The old law profits us nothing,. The ten commandments and the Sabbath cannot justify man,

Galatians 2:16
...For by the works of the law NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Not helpful at all since it contradicts the Bible.

Matthew 5:17-19 = Galatians 3:24-25 = Romans 10:4

For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes(Faith).

Anyone who claims that Christ did not end the law of Moses is calling him a liar.

The old law profits us nothing,. The ten commandments and the Sabbath cannot justify man,

Galatians 2:16
...For by the works of the law NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

Not at all dear friend. I respectfully disagree but let me show why from the scriptures. It is your interpretation of Matthew 5 that is in contradiction to the scriptures as proven in the post you did not respond to and the OP that shows what Jesus and the Apostles taught about the law in the new testament. These scriptures all disagree with your interpretation of them as shown already in Matthew 5 from post # 1992 linked that shows the context you have left out that disagrees with your teachings. This of course was only sent in love and as a help to you. Of course you are free to believe and do as you wish as that is between you and God.

Let's go the extra mile though. The context as shown in Matthew 5:17-32 already proves your interpretation of Matthew 5:17-20 is in error (if you disagree your welcome to address post # 1992 linked and the scriptures provided in them that shows why your teachings are not biblical).

Let's deal with what you believe are proof texts to say God's 10 commandments are abolished....

Galatians 3:22-26 says

[22], But THE SCRIPTURE HAS CONCLUDED ALL UNDER SIN, THAT THE PROMISE BY FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST MIGHT BE GIVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Note: “The scripture has concluded all are under sin.” Paul also discusses this further in Romans 3:9-23 where he shows that both Jews and Gentiles are all sinners and that God’s law when it is broken gives us a knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20 and further on in Romans 7:7 where Paul says that when we break anyone of God’s 10 commandments we commit sin agreeing with John in 1 John 3:4 and James in James 2:10-11. So to be "under the law" in Romans 3:19 or to be "under sin" in Galatians 3:22 means to be under the condemnation of the law and it’s penalty for sin which is death because we have broken the law.

[23], But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, SHUT UP TO THE FAITH WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED.

Note: “Before faith came we were kept under the law shut up to the faith which should afterwards be revealed.” That is we as sinners are under the laws condemnation because we have all sinned agreeing with what Paul says in Romans 3:19 where he says “Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.” So to be “under the law” here does not mean to be obedient to practicing the law it means to be under the laws condemnation because we have sinned and broken or disobeyed Gods’ law as shown in the context in Galatians 3:22. So this is where we all are according to the scriptures before faith comes which is afterwards to be revealed. Before we can receive Gods’ forgiveness for our sins we are all condemned by the law as sinners so we can see our need of God’s salvation (see Matthew 9:12-13). This agrees with the next verse in Galatians 3:24 where it says…

[24], WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US TO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Note: “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be forgiven (justified) by faith.” That is the law show us that we are all sinners in need of God’s forgiveness and we receive God’s forgiveness as a free gift through faith as we believe Gods’ Word (Ephesians 2:8-9).

[25], BUT AFTER THAT FAITH IS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER. [26], For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Note: “But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” That is we are no longer under the law condemnation and penalty for sin which is death because our faith in Jesus and His death paid the price for our sins and Jesus offers us His blood for ours freeing us from the condemnation and the penalty of sin which is death. Jesus paid the price for our sins so that we can receive God’s forgiveness and reconciliation back to God as a free gift through faith. Therefore we are no longer under the condemnation of the law standing guilty before God of sin because Jesus pain the penalty for our sins through his death. When our faith in this has come as receive Gods forgiveness.

.............

All the above now makes sense and links in very nicely with the next scripture...

Romans 10:4 4, FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVES.

That is this is where the law points us and that is Christ! Which looks like this

GOD’S LAW >>>>SINNER; CONDEMNATION; DEATH>>>>CHRIST; FORGIVENESS; PENALTY PAID: LIFE

The scripture here does not say Gods’ law is abolished that would contradict what Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 where he says “Think not that I have come to abolish the law I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law or what Paul says in Romans 3:31 where he says “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.” So the law is not abolished through faith like you are trying to teach here it is established through faith according to the scriptures. Christ is the "end of the law to everyone who believes" because that is where the law points us (to Christ) where we as sinners can receive Gods' forgiveness through faith.

…………….

As shown above so far, you have not provided a single scripture that supports the false gospel teachings that Jesus fulfilled God’s law so that we no longer have to. This is a teaching of men and a doctrine of devils that is designed to lead all those who believe and follow it away from God and His Word. So you may want to prayerfully take what is shared with you here and revisit what you believe on this subject as your interpretation of these scriptures as shown in the posts and scriptures provided is not biblical.

Let’s just finish up here with your last scripture so there is no misunderstandings and so everything you have provided here has been addressed in detail. The last scripture you use is found in Galatians 2 which says…

Galatians 2:16 [16], Knowing that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, EVEN WE HAVE BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST, AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.

Agreed! No one has ever stated here or anywhere in this section of the forum that we are justified or forgiven before God by what we do. It is impossible to be justified by the law when we are all sinners who have broken the law. You should have picked this up in the earlier sections of my posts to you. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

May you receive God’s Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear as it will become our judge come judgement day for the words of God we accept or reject according to John 12:47-48.

 

[Titus Dorn]

Not at all. It is your interpretation of Matthew 5 that is in contradiction to the scriptures as proven in the post you did not respond to and the OP that shows what Jesus and the Apostles taught about the law in the new testament. These scriptures all disagree with your interpretation of them as shown already in Matthew 5 from post # 1992 linked that shows the context you have left out that disagrees with your teachings. This of course was only sent in love and as a help to you. Of course you are free to believe and do as you wish as that is between you and God.

Let's go the extra mile though. The context as shown in Matthew 5:17-32 already proves your interpretation of Matthew 5:17-20 is in error (if you disagree your welcome to address post # 1992 linked and the scriptures provided in them that shows why your teachings are not biblical).

Let's deal with what you believe are proof texts to say God's 10 commandments are abolished....

Galatians 3:22-26 says

[22], But THE SCRIPTURE HAS CONCLUDED ALL UNDER SIN, THAT THE PROMISE BY FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST MIGHT BE GIVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Note: “The scripture has concluded all are under sin.” Paul also discusses this further in Romans 3:9-23 where he shows that both Jews and Gentiles are all sinners and that God’s law when it is broken gives us a knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20 and further on in Romans 7:7 where Paul says that when we break anyone of God’s 10 commandments we commit sin agreeing with John in 1 John 4:3 and James in James 2:10-11. So to be under the law in Romans 3:19 or to be under sin here in Galatians 3:22 means to be under the condemnation of the law and it’s penalty for sin which is death.

[23], But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, SHUT UP TO THE FAITH WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED.

Note: “Before faith came we were kept under the law shut up to the faith which should afterwards be revealed.” That is we as sinners are under the laws condemnation because we have all sinned agreeing with what Paul says in Romans 3:19 where he says “Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.” So to be “under the law” here does not mean to be obedient to practicing the law it means to be under the laws condemnation because we have sinned and broken or disobeyed Gods’ law as shown in the context of Galatiuans 3:22. So this is where we all are according to the scriptures before faith comers which is afterwards to be revealed. Before can receive Gods’ forgiveness for our sins we are all must be condemned by the law as sinners so we can see our need of God’s salvation (see Matthew 9:12-13). This agrees with the next verse in Galatians 3:24…

[24], WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US TO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Note: “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be forgiven (justified) by faith.” That is the law show us that we are all sinners in need of God’s forgiveness and we receive God’s forgiveness as a freee gift through faith as we believe Gods’ Word (Ephesians 2:8-9).

[25], BUT AFTER THAT FAITH IS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER. [26], For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Note: “But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” That is we are no longer under the law condemnation and penalty for sin which is death because our faith in Jesus and His death paid the price for our sins and Jesus offers us His blood for ours freeing us from the condemnation and the penalty of sin which is death. Jesus paid the price for our sins so that we can receive God’s forgiveness and reconciliation back to God as a free gift through faith. Therefore we are no longer under the condemnation of the law standing guilty before God of sin because Jesus pain the penalty for our sins through his death. When our faith in this has come as receive Gods forgiveness.

.............

All the above now makes sense and links in very nicely with

Romans 10:4 4, FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVES.

That is this is where the law points us and that is Christ! Which looks like this

GOD’S LAW >>>>SINNER; CONDEMNATION; DEATH>>>>CHRIST; FORGIVENESS; PENALTY PAID: LIFE

The scripture here does not say Gods’ law is abolished that would contradict with Jesus say in Matthew 5:17 where he says “Think not that I have come to abolish the law I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law or what Paul says in Romans 3:31 where he says “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.” So the law is not abolished through faith like you are trying to teach here it is established through faith according to the scriptures.

…………….

As shown above you have not provided a single scripture that supports the false gospel that Jesus fulfilled God’s law so that we no longer have to. This is a teaching of men and a doctrine of devils that is designed to lead all those who believe and follow it away from God and His Word. So you may want to prayerfully take what is shared with you here and revisit what you believe on this subject as your interpretation of these scriptures as shown in the posts and scriptures provided is not biblical.

Let’s just finish up here with your last scripture so there is no misunderstandings and so everything you have provided here has been addressed in detail. The last scripture you use is found in Galatians 2 which says…

Galatians 2:16 [16], Knowing that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, EVEN WE HAVE BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST, AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.

Agreed! No one has ever stated here or anywhere in this section of the forum that we are justified or forgiven before God by what we do. It is impossible to be justified by the law when we are all sinners who have broken the law. You should have picked this up in the earlier sections of my posts to you. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

May you receive God’s Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear as it will become our judge come judgement day for the words of God we accept or reject according to John 12:47-48.

Wrong again, I did not interpret the scriptures.

I allowed them to interpret themselves, 2Peter 1:20-21

Matthew 5:17-19 = Galatians 3:24-25 = Romans 10:4

Galatians 2:16
...for by the works of the law NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wrong again, I did not interpret the scriptures.

I allowed them to interpret themselves, 2Peter 1:20-21

Matthew 5:17-19 = Galatians 3:24-25 = Romans 10:4

Galatians 2:16
...for by the works of the law NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree.

We should be careful because if we ignore God's Word when the scriptures show we are in contradiction to other scriptures in the bible it should be a warning to us that perhaps what we believe may not be biblical. So repeating ourselves without reviewing the scriptures we might be in contradiction with does not make God's Word disappear. Everything you have posted here to claim that God's 10 commandments have been abolished has already been addressed in detail in posts and the scriptures provided in them showing the contexts you have not considered from post # 1992 linked and post #1994 linked.

If you disagree your welcome to show why you disagree with what has been shared with you from the scriptures but just ignoring the scriptures in the posts shared with you that have already addressed everything you have posted here showing what your teaching is not biblical does not make God's Word disappear.

So if your not willing to discuss anything here with me we will of course agree to disagree and I will leave it with you and God to work through and pray you might receive His Word shared only in love and as a help to you. What is it that you disagree with in what I have shared with you from the scriptures and why in the linked posts and scriptures provided? If you cannot tell me then your argument is not with me dear friend.

Something to pray about.

 

[Titus Dorn]

It's as plain as the nose on your face. The law of Moses has ended for ALL.

Matthew 5:17-19 = Galatians 3:24-25 = Romans 10:4

Galatians 2:16

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Faith is here.
Matthew 5:17-19 has been accomplished.

I do not want to hear another false accusation against me from you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's as plain as the nose on your face. The law of Moses has ended for ALL.

Matthew 5:17-19 = Galatians 3:24-25 = Romans 10:4

Galatians 2:16

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Faith is here.
Matthew 5:17-19 has been accomplished.

I do not want to hear another false accusation against me from you.

Do you think we are all free to lie, steal, worship other gods now? Is this what you’re saying? If sin is the transgression of the law and there is no law, so therefore there is no sin, than we do not need grace and we do not need a Savior to save us from sin so we are all lost.

Paul has more to say on the subject of God’s laws and summed it up, when He said 1 Corinthians 7:19 but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[Titus Dorn]

Do you think we are all free to lie, steal, worship other gods now? Is this what you’re saying? If sin is the transgression of the law and there is no law, so therefore there is no sin, than we do not need grace and we do not need a Savior to save us from sin so we are all lost.

Paul has more to say on the subject of God’s laws and summed it up, when He said 1 Corinthians 7:19 but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

No, I do not think we are not under law. Do you think I just started reading the Bible today?

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ.
Hebrews 10:9
Then He said, Behold I have come to do Your will, O God. He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
1Corinthians 9:21
to those who are without law, as without law(not being without law toward God, but UNDER LAW TOWARD CHRIST) that I might win those who are without law

 

[Freth]

It's as plain as the nose on your face. The law of Moses has ended for ALL.

In the book of Revelation we see that this is clearly not the case.

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have [conditional] right to the tree of life [eternal life], and may enter in through the gates into the city [New Jerusalem]. For without are dogs(a), and sorcerers(b), and whoremongers(c), and murderers(d), and idolaters(e), and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie(f).​

Abominations and Sins

(a) dogs; Strong's G2965 kyōn: a man of impure mind, an impudent man

• Proverbs 26:10 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
• Philippians 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers...

(b) sorcerers; Strong's G5333 pharmakos: pertaining to magical arts

• Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
• Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.

(c) whoremongers; Strong's G4205 pornos: a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator, a male prostitute

• Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
• Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
• 1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

Ten Commandments

(d) murderers; Strong's G5406 phoneus : a murderer, a homicide

• John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
• 1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers.

(e) idolators; Strong's G1496 eidōlolatrēs : a worshipper of false gods, an idolater

• 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
• Leviticus 19:4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the Lord your God.

(f) lie; Strong's G5579 pseudos: a lie

• Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
• 1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
• 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

loveth; Strong's G5368 phileō: to love, to approve of, to like, to sanction
maketh; Strong's G4160 poieō: to make, to be the authors of

• Satan loves and sanctions sin.
  
• Satan loves and makes a lie. He is a liar, the author of lies.
  
• Satan is a murderer.

Conclusions

• Satan, the source of sin, is still perpetuating sin in this world.
  
• Sin is still transgression of the eternal law of God.
  
• Commandment keeping is still binding to man.

Addendum:​

• The only time you are not "under the law" is when you are obedient of the law (Romans 6:15).
• The saints keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12).
• Love is the character of God (1 John 4:8), upon which all the law and prophets hang (Matthew 22:40). This is the summation of the law of God in His character of love.
  • To do away with the law is to also do away with the prophets.
  • To do away with the law and the prophets is to also do away with love upon which the two hang.
  • To do away with love is to also do away with the character of God.
  • To do away with the character of God is to do away with God.

God's law and His teachings in the prophetic word are eternal because they reflect the very character of God, which is love. God does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus does not change (Hebrews 13:8). He does the will of the Father (John 5:30).​