IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

[Clare73]

Clare,
Romans 9:24-26 is a direct reference to the house of Israel, those of the once Northern Kingdom. The term "gentile" means nations, or, tribes.

Are you serious?

Romans 9:24 - "whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the nations."
And who were the "nations". . .more Jews apart from the Jews?

"Nations" (ethnos) is used almost 100 times in the NT to mean "Gentiles."

Love your dog!

 

[Clare73]

You certainly offered up the implication HERE:

And Claimed you wouldn't argue with God about it HERE:

That would be what you inferred, not what I said. They aren't the same thing.

And I stand by the statement that if God said they deserved it, then they most definitely did.

You can argue with God, I don't.

 

[parousia70]

And I stand by the statement that if God said they deserved it, then they most definitely did.

You can argue with God, I don't.

And Since God DIDN'T say it, Why Argue for it?

You want to argue with God, telling Him He said something He didn't say?

If God said Pigs Fly, I wouldn't argue with Him about that either... But, again, He didn't say it, and I'm not about to argue with Him by telling Him He did.

 

[Clare73]

And Since God DIDN'T say it, Why Argue for it?

You want to argue with God, telling Him He said something He didn't say?

If God said Pigs Fly, I wouldn't argue with Him about that either... But, again, He didn't say it, and I'm not about to argue with Him by telling Him He did.

I don't know whether he said it or not.

I was responding to a remark about prophetic curses on Israel.

 

[Clare73]

.

 

[Guojing]

Not really. I believe "Israel" still exists in the form of the scattered descendants of the various tribes, and are still subject to the prophecies concerning them, apart from the NT church, which I believe is made up largely of those descendants.

So if that is the case, you believe that all of us in the body of Christ are also the Israel that the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:8 was meant for?

 

[Guojing]

Yes indeed you can write a long list of what is declared to come and it will be just like the 1st advent when Jesus walked with the two disciples and opened the scriptures to them and showed them all things written about him. The 2nd coming and transition into the millennium has more written about it than Jesus 1st coming.

Alright, so when you said "Now this unconditional covenant is shown to be fulfilled in Ezekiel 47", you meant the future, and not past tense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Clare73]

So if that is the case, you believe that all of us in the body of Christ are also the Israel that the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:8 was meant for?

He said the promise to Israel of a new covenant is fullfilled in the Gentile church, which is the true Israel. (Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 10:15-18)

 

[Guojing]

He said the promise to Israel of a new covenant is fullfilled in the Gentile church, which is the true Israel. (Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 10:15-18)

Yes, those who share your doctrine have the underlying assumption that the Body of Christ is Israel.

I was trying to confirm whether he holds that assumption too.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, those who share your doctrine have the underlying assumption that the Body of Christ is Israel.

I was trying to confirm whether he holds that assumption too.

It's not my doctrine, it's the authoritative NT teaching of Hebrews 8:6-13, 10:15-18. . .all I do is believe it.

 

[RickReads]

God's plan for and focus on are not a supposed restoration of Israel, separate from the church which has become the almost total focus of many.

God's only focus is on his plan to glorify his Son in the redemption of a precious treasure for his own personal inheritance, in his saints, the church, the one body of Christ, the one olive tree, the one flock of both OT and NT saints.

The authoritative teaching of the NT presents no such dichotomy of church and Israel in God's plan to glorify his Son through the redemption of an inheritance for himself.

That is all a product of human fancy, with absolutely no basis in the NT's authoritative teaching for the New Covenant.

I have never said that Israel can be restored separately from the church. And on the issue of Jesus's personal inheritance, it's not just the saints, the land of Israel is His, the entire earth is His, all creation is His.

It`s naive to believe He isn`t coming back to enjoy His creation.

 

[Guojing]

It's not my doctrine, it's the authoritative NT teaching of Hebrews 8:6-13, 10:15-18. . .all I do is believe it.

Remember the cinema analogy? =)

 

[Clare73]

Remember the cinema analogy? =)

Would that be your doctrine?

 

[Guojing]

Would that be your doctrine?

If you insist, sure.

 

[Clare73]

I never said that Israel can be restored separately from the church.

Great!

So just how far apart are we?

And on the issue of Jesus's personal inheritance,

That's the person of the Father's personal inheritance and treasure.

it's not just the saints, the land of Israel is His, the entire earth is His, all creation is His.

It`s naive to believe He isn`t coming back to enjoy His creation.

He's coming back to gather his saints and judge the world. . .and there's going to be a new heaven and a new earth. . .what do you think that will be about?

 

[Clare73]

If you insist, sure.

Subject to the limits of all personal doctrine, right?

 

[Guojing]

Subject to the limits of all personal doctrine, right?

You can hold any opinion you want for yourself regarding scripture, others don't have to agree with them.

But its another to insist that your opinion about scripture are facts. You are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[RickReads]

Some issues there:
Where do we find "inheriting the covenent" in Scripture?
Scripture doesn't use that language.
Who came up with this notion?

"We" (Gentiles) were never in any covenant with God, either Abrahamic or Mosaic covenant.
So "we" did not break any covenant and deserve any covenant curses, just as
"we" were not under the Mosaic law and, therefore, not under the curse of the law.

Christ did not inherit the promises to Abraham, they were made to Abraham and to Christ only, his seed. The promises to Abraham and Christ are: blessing to the nations, land, seed.

Because we are in Christ, the Abrahamic promises to Christ are ours as well,
just as the Mosaic covenant with the nation Israel was all with all those in Israel later as well.

I don't see any point established.
Perhaps you can explain it to me.

I was just taking a minute to answer the OP for this thread. The answer is no because Jesus is the only one who was able to inherit the promises.

 

[Davy]

According to British Israelism those nations represent the descendants of the other tribes, which also share in the Abrahamic material blessings.

Back when I used to have a website, a pastor from Scotland sent me a news article from a Scottish peridodical where a DNA study was done on several groups of European Caucasians. The Anglo-Saxons like to claim they are a different race than the Celtic peoples, however, the DNA study showed the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Germani, Nordic, Danes, basically the European Caucasian peoples, were all from the same root stock of DNA.

That linked with my studies about the Bible prophecies of God scattering Israel, and the "multitude of nations" prophecy. A linguist professor from the University of Michigan, Leroy Waterman, in 1930 translated from the Assyrian cuneiform tablets certain names the Assyrians called the ten tribes of Israel they held captive. These names he showed were linked to the Kummerians, or Cimmerians. Anthropology well knows that the Cimmerian tribes migrated westward into Asia-Minor and Europe, and basically made up the majority of Caucasian peoples that became the European nations. They just haven't admitted the link that Waterman found, with the people of the ten tribes of Israel which were taken captive by the kings of Assyria, and never return to the holy lands as a people.

Then along with those migrations to the West, the majority of the "house of Judah" that went captive to Babylon decided to stay in Babylon after their 70 years captivity, but then were further scattered through the countries like the ten tribes were. That how many of the Jews went westward also and converted to Christ Jesus. Thus what God promised Israel with making a New Covenant with them came to pass by this when The Gospel was rejected in Jerusalem, but then preached throughout Asia-Minor and Europe, creating the western Christian nations of history.

 

[Clare73]

You can hold any opinion you want for yourself regarding scripture, others don't have to agree with them.

But its another to insist that your opinion about scripture are facts. You are not entitled to your own facts.

It's not opinion when it can be Biblically demonstrated in agreement with all Scripture.

Not everything Biblical is in play and up for grabs.
There are facts and truths that can be demonstrated to be true in agreement with all Scripture.

There is no safe refuge for one's own Biblical error, and that includes the refuge of "it's all just opinion," as in your "cinema doctrine."