When God Separated

[Mr. M]

On The First Day
Genesis 1:
3 Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God separated
the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.
So the evening and the morning were the first day.

From The Foundation Of The World
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing
was made, that was made.
4 In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness
did not comprehend it.

The Children of Light Put On Christ
John 12:36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light,
that you may become sons of Light.

John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, I Am the Light
of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness,
but have the Light of life.

Ephesians 5:
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.
Walk as children of light.

2 Thessalonians 5:
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day
should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not
of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch
and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get
drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the
breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet
the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Draws Them To Himself
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw
all men to Myself.

John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

John 3:
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come
to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds
may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Foreshadowed At The Exodus
Exodus 10:
22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was
thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days.
23 They did not see one another; nor did anyone rise from his place
for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Confirmed In The Testimony
Isaiah 60:
1 Arise, shine; for your light has come!
And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
and deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you, and His glory
will be seen upon you.
3 The Nations shall come to your light, and kings to
the brightness of your rising.

 

[renniks]

On The First Day
Genesis 1:
3 Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God separated
the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.
So the evening and the morning were the first day.

From The Foundation Of The World
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing
was made, that was made.
4 In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness
did not comprehend it.

The Children of Light Put On Christ
John 12:36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light,
that you may become sons of Light.

John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, I Am the Light
of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness,
but have the Light of life.

Ephesians 5:
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.
Walk as children of light.

2 Thessalonians 5:
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day
should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not
of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch
and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get
drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the
breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet
the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Draws Them To Himself
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw
all peoples to Myself.

John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

John 3:
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come
to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds
may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Foreshadowed At The Exodus
Exodus 10:
22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was
thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days.
23 They did not see one another; nor did anyone rise from his place
for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Confirmed In The Testimony
Isaiah 60:
1 Arise, shine; for your light has come!
And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
and deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you, and His glory
will be seen upon you.
3 The Nations shall come to your light, and kings to
the brightness of your rising.

Yes he chose that all those who believe would be saved. He didn't choose individuals.

 

[Mr. M]

Yes he chose that all those who believe would be saved. He didn't choose individuals.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Those who are Christ's are given to Him by His Father.
This was established from the foundation of the World.
They will be revealed as children of light that shines out in the darkness.

John 6:65 And He said, Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless
it has been granted to him by My Father.

 

[renniks]

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Those who are Christ's are given to Him by His Father.
This was established from the foundation of the World.
They will be revealed as children of light that shines out in the darkness.

John 6:65 And He said, Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless
it has been granted to him by My Father.

Yes Jesus said that to the twelve, one of who would betray him!
It's not about salvation at all in this verse.
In John 6 Jesus also told them why salvation wasn't granted to these Jews at that time. Because they had not learned from the father.

John 6:45, "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."

 

[Mr. M]

John 6:45, "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."

I would like to expand on this passage so we can a clearer picture.
John 6:
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and
I will raise him up at the last day.
Again, those who belong to Christ are given to Him by His Father.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you...

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore
everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
So, all are taught by God...but not all hear and learn from the Father.
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead;
so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and
their foolish heart was darkened.

John 6:
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God;
He has seen the Father.
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Yes Jesus said that to the twelve, one of who would betray him!
It's not about salvation at all in this verse.
In John 6 Jesus also told them why salvation wasn't granted to these Jews at that time. Because they had not learned from the father.

I agree that that this statement in John 15 goes beyond salvation to them being apostles.
I only quoted the verse because it says "you did not choose me",
and therefore worth noting, showing a consistent message. As for salvation:
Ephesians 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us
with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we
should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according
to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Matthew 11:27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son
except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom
the Son wills to reveal Him.

John 6:65 And He said, Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless
it has been granted to him by My Father.

Reminds me of the narrative of Gideon, as God winnowed down those whom He would use.
John 6:
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go?
You have the words of eternal life.
69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ,
the Son of the living God. (the True confession of Faith).
70 Jesus answered them, Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him,
being one of the twelve.

Yes Jesus said that to the twelve, one of who would betray him!

Judas was chosen to fulfill the scriptures.
John 17:
9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me,
for they are Yours.
10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You.
Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they
may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You
gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition,
that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes Jesus said that to the twelve, one of who would betray him!
It's not about salvation at all in this verse.
In John 6 Jesus also told them why salvation wasn't granted to these Jews at that time. Because they had not learned from the father.

John 6:45, "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."

When Jesus spake to them in Jn 15, judas was not among them !

 

[renniks]

When Jesus spake to them in Jn 15, judas was not among them !

God did choose His prophets and apostles. That doesn’t prove, however, that God decided beforehand who would and wouldn’t believe their message. Two very different questions.

 

[Brightfame52]

God did choose His prophets and apostles. That doesn’t prove, however, that God decided beforehand who would and wouldn’t believe their message. Two very different questions.

Yes it does prove that !

 

[Mr. M]

Yes it does prove that !

Does this not say as much?
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord.
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
If not, would I not be claiming to be better, a maker of wise choices?
I assure you, I believe by the Grace of God, who delivered me out many strange
teachings and desires of the fleshly mind. Maybe He granted me His Grace because
I was a seeker, even as Paul was zealous for the Law. Above all these things, I was
delivered from the vanity of my own free will choices, until surrender came and
I became His possession. I was saved at age 12, from there I made many a detour.
He never forsook me.

 

[renniks]

Yes it does prove that !

How?

 

[renniks]

Does this not say as much?
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord.
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
If not, would I not be claiming to be better, a maker of wise choices?
I assure you, I believe by the Grace of God, who delivered me out many strange
teachings and desires of the fleshly mind. Maybe He granted me His Grace because
I was a seeker, even as Paul was zealous for the Law. Above all these things, I was
delivered from the vanity of my own free will choices, until surrender came and
I became His possession. I was saved at age 12, from there I made many a detour.
He never forsook me.

Text without context is a pretext for proof-text. We have to look at what is happening in the text in order to better understand the possible intent of the author.

The big debate of that day was whether God had included (grafted in) the non-elect people (the other nations).
If we come to the text with the wrong question we will certainly find the wrong answer.

Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me! The God of the people of Israel chose our ancestors (national election of Israel); he made the people prosper during their stay in Egypt; with mighty power he led them out of that country; for about forty years he endured their conduct in the wilderness; and he overthrew seven nations in Canaan, giving their land to his people as their inheritance. All this took about 450 years.

The apostles are speaking in a Jewish synagogue on the Sabbath and verse 16 specifies the audience includes Gentiles who are already believers in the God of Israel and desire to worship Him.

More context:
Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. (Acts 13:38-39)

Notice the apostle is bringing attention to the fact that anyone and everyone, regardless of their nationality, can be justified before God through faith.
Why were the God-fearing Gentiles appointed for eternal life?

Because: The Gentiles were “prepared for” or “appointed to” eternal life because they humbly recognized their sin and believed in God, unlike the Jews who had willingly rebelled and grown calloused to the truth of God.

 

[Mr. M]

Text without context is a pretext for proof-text. We have to look at what is happening in the text in order to better understand the possible intent of the author.

Thank You. I am very familiar with the entire text of what Paul preached here. The question
is, of all that heard, Jew or Gentile, who was it that believed the message?
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord.
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Because: The Gentiles were “prepared for” or “appointed to” eternal life because they humbly recognized their sin and believed in God, unlike the Jews who had willingly rebelled and grown calloused to the truth of God.

Clearly, not all the Jews, nor all the Gentiles. Those who were humbled by their sin! I agree,
but that is by the Grace of God, by the promised Holy Spirit who convicts the heart.
Otherwise, Grace is not Grace.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.
But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

You can suggest "proof-texting", but all the apostles quoted individual scriptures without
context. No doubt, the proof is in the pudding, so feel free to prove it. No one is expected to
post all of Acts 13, when everyone on a computer is also in a Bible. What I can do is direct
attention to a clear statement at the conclusion of sermon.
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
This statement is consistent with "saved by grace through faith",
and there is no distinctions between Jew or Gentile, for God is not a respecter of persons.

 

[renniks]

and there is no distinctions between Jew or Gentile, for God is not a respecter of persons.

Right, exactly! So individuals are not chosen for salvation. That would make God a respecter of persons.
God chooses those who respond to his invitation.

 

[Mr. M]

Right, exactly! So individuals are not chosen for salvation. That would make God a respecter of persons.
God chooses those who respond to his invitation.

Tricky, huh!
John 6:65 He said, For this cause have I said to you that no one can come to me,
unless it is given to him by my Father.
You could also cite Peter:
Acts 10:
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
This would seem to support your statement above, but as you have also already mentioned,
keep in mind the context. Peter was dumbfounded by the fact that Gentiles were receiving the
Holy Spirit. Therefore in Acts 10, he is still getting a revelation of God's sovereignty, in
which I trust exclusively. Peter would later state:
2 Peter 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
I was in a state of brokenness when I turned/returned to the Lord. That also, was Grace,
for I could as very easily taken my life. I like the statement you made that sometimes
you cannot get the right answer until you ask the right question. This type of discussion
generally centers on the issue of free will. So if I believe in free will, I will ask another
question. Why does God give us free will? I know from my own "prodigal son" experience
is that we can surrender to him "of our own free will". I was accepted by Him at the age
of 12, as I have the distinct remembrance of being zealous in making that decision when
given the opportunity by the church. As I continued to exercise my free will for many years,
I paid the price with many tears. As I stated earlier in post #9, The Lord is Faithful!

God chooses those who respond to his invitation.

That would not apply to Paul would it? How often did Paul defer to Grace. So will I.
Galatians 1:
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God
beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being
more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me
through His grace.
Paul did not consider himself a sinner at all. He did surrender ultimately to His sovereignty
and Purpose. Grace without Purpose is easily led astray!
Philippians 3:
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus
my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that
I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
More Grace! More for you and I! I appreciate this discussion, as iron sharpens iron.

 

[renniks]

Peter was dumbfounded by the fact that Gentiles were receiving the
Holy Spirit. Therefore in Acts 10, he is still getting a revelation of God's sovereignty,

Peter was getting a lesson on grace. They naturally thought that salvation was for the chosen few, the Jews. But the Holy Spirit convicts all people.

 

[renniks]

That would not apply to Paul would it?

Of course. He could have stayed blind, physically and spiritually.

 

[Brightfame52]

How?

How not ?

 

[renniks]

How not ?

Because the messagers are not the same as those who receive the message.

“I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message."

We aren't the disciples.

 

[Brightfame52]

Because the messagers are not the same as those who receive the message.

“I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message."

We aren't the disciples.

I dont know what you talking about friend !

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Those who are Christ's are given to Him by His Father.
This was established from the foundation of the World.
They will be revealed as children of light that shines out in the darkness.

John 6:65 And He said, Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless
it has been granted to him by My Father.

He just finished saying that “anyone who does not abide in Me will be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned”. These who didn’t remain in Christ were also given by The Father.