The great commission is false

[anti-conformist]

Yes if you mean it is your desire (not a "job" involving remuneration) to worship God and to honor and praise him ...

technically there is remuneration in the end. i get saved.

 

[Love First]

no, you missed the pertinent point...pro-active... We should tell people just not proactively pursue evangelism

And where do you get that philosophy from because I don’t find it in the Bible?


Romans 10:14-15
English Standard Version

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

 

[anti-conformist]

“I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and hell and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think that it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward, and atheists who think that people shouldn’t proselytize — ‘Just leave me alone, keep your religion to yourself.’

“How much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize?” Jillette asked. “How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? If I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you and you didn’t believe it, and that truck was bearing down on you, there’s a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that.”

“This guy was a really good guy. He was polite and honest and sane, and he cared enough about me to proselytize and give me a Bible, which had written in it a little note to me — not very personal, but just ‘Liked your show,’ and then listed five phone numbers for him and an e-mail address if I wanted to get in touch,” Jillette said.

If i took the advice of atheists i would be on the road to hell

 

[anti-conformist]

And where do you get that philosophy from because I don’t find it in the Bible?
.

john 6...
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

black and white. It is Gods job to draw people. not yours or mine. he doesnt need our help although he sometimes uses it.

 

[Love First]

john 6...
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

black and white. It is Gods job to draw people. not yours or mine. he doesnt need our help although he sometimes uses it.

You are confused brother. Yes it is the work of God to draw people but he uses human beings as his instruments to aide the process.

1 Corinthians 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

 

[anti-conformist]

Doctrines of demons, it's in the churches, " not my job man" ! I have my secret Jesus just for me. It's all about self life, it's worldly things, setting up camp in the churches. Satan wins if he can shut you up.. The OP message screams of this . And the power in that is fear to proclaim the name Jesus before men. Make no mistake about that.

That said some literally are called to preach ( teachers, preachers, pastors, deacons, ie clergy, in church workers), others to cook out in the kitchen. All are called to give a gentle witness. Sometimes you're the only one at the side of a death bed or beside a co-worker in stress and you are the only one with The Answer for that person and the person doesn't even know to ask. And we are not called to let that person slip off into eternal hell and never open our mouths but to say it's not my job..

I in no way said we shouldnt talk about it, i said evangelism shouldnt be the FOCUS of the individual. It should be a natural outpouring of the desire to do Gods will. In the modern church it is a focus, which is wrong. Evangelism is satanic when used as a main focus. It takes the focus AWAY from you and your relationship and puts it on a task to be fulfilled. This is exactly what the pharisee did.

 

[anti-conformist]

You are confused brother. Yes it is the work of God to draw people but he uses human beings as his instruments to aide the process.

so are you saying God is powerless without us and cannot accomplish this on his own without our help?

 

[Love First]

so are you saying God is powerless without us and cannot accomplish this on his own without our help?

No, I’m not saying that but what I am saying is that YHWH uses people to accomplish the work of the gospel.

 

[Saint Steven]

Maybe you should go back and read what I said.

No, I’ve never had a spiritual experience I’m the abominable snowman.

Have a nice day man.

Why so dismissive? Did I offend you?

 

[Love First]

Why so dismissive? Did I offend you?

A bit.

 

[anti-conformist]

No, I’m not saying that but what I am saying is that YHWH uses people to accomplish the work of the gospel.

sure i agree. But the distinction is that we are ALLOWED to help, we arent needed. he does it because he wants us to be able to participate in his plan. but we are in no way obligated to evangelize. we are obligated to focus on our relationship with him. thats all

 

[Love First]

sure i agree. But the distinction is that we are ALLOWED to help, we arent needed. he does it because he wants us to be able to participate in his plan. but we are in no way obligated to evangelize. we are obligated to focus on our relationship with him. thats all

 

[anti-conformist]

Now, I, for one, am of the opinion ... that the charge of evangelism (i.e. spreading the gospel) ... is upon the Church, rather than being specifically upon christians. Which is why God the Holy Spirit has placed Evangelists within the Church, perhaps beginning with Paul, the great evangelist.

i agree, and i think we agree. my main point of frustration is that people assume they under some sort of obligation to proselytize, and they arent. And it drive me nuts when commentators go around spouting nonsense about evangelism like it is a duty. of course you will want to tell people, to me this is a given, however we arent obligated.

it is our charge to (like you said) keep the light shining bright. some people might do that via cooking, or gardening, or singing.

 

[Butterball1]

john 6...
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

black and white. It is Gods job to draw people. not yours or mine. he doesnt need our help although he sometimes uses it.

According to John 6:45 the drawing is done when men are "taught" "heard" and "learn" then men come to Christ. So God's drawing is not some mysterious, miraculous event that occurs separately and apart from His word, the Bible, being taugh, heard and learned. God's drawing does not occur apart from evangelizing......no salvation apart from preaching, 1 Corinthians 1:21......


How Does God Draw Men to Christ?
In verse forty-five, Jesus reveals precisely how God draws people to Christ. Quoting from the prophet Isaiah (Isa. 54:13) and possibly alluding to Jeremiah 31:34, the Lord employs four verbs to stress the personal volition of human beings and the method employed in their being drawn to him. They must be taught, hear, learn, and come.

To ignore these inspired words is exegetically dishonest.

Taught
The term “taught” is from the adjective didaktos. It’s found only twice in the Greek New Testament. The word has to do with “being taught, instructed” (Danker et al. 2000, 240).

In 1 Corinthians 2:13 it is employed of the teaching that ultimately originates with the Holy Spirit but is made known by means of words through men who convey the message — either those inspired originally or now by means of their words as recorded in Scripture.

Professor Merrill Tenney wrote: “Verse 45 indicates that God would do his drawing through the Scriptures and that those who were obedient to God’s will as revealed in the Scriptures would come to Jesus” (1981, 76; emphasis added). Bernard observed that the “drawing” was by “being taught” (1928, 205).

Some appeal to 1 Thessalonians 4:9 in an attempt to establish the theory that the teaching is in an internal, subjective instruction by the Holy Spirit (Hiebert 1971, 178).

“[Y]ou have no need to have any one write to you, for your yourselves have been taught of God.”

But the actual point here being made is that the teaching regarding brotherly love had been done previously. In fact, since their conversion, they had already understood that they all were family by virtue of a common new birth. Paul was simply reminding them that such an elementary matter did not need to be rehearsed in the present letter.

Hearing
The word “heard” is important because it is preliminary to coming to Christ.

The verb is a past tense form of akouo. Mounce notes that there are at least five senses in which akouo is used in the New Testament. In this case, it is a hearing with a view to learning (2007, 327). In other words, it involves receiving information about something (cf. Danker et al. 2000, 38).

Learning
“Learn” derives from manthano, “to gain knowledge or skill by instruction” (Danker et al. 2000, 615). It involves more than mere exposure to information. It embraces the idea of grasping the significance of what has been taught (Mt. 13:23). As Mounce observes, it “involves not only exposure to information but also comprehension” (2007, 397). It conveys the sense of “understanding” (cf. Mt. 9:13).

No one is qualified to “come to” Christ, or even needs to if he is incompetent to understand the rudiments of the gospel (Rom. 1:16). Paul’s statement in Romans 6:17 that gospel obedience is “from the heart” shows, among other things, “that our decision to surrender to God was our own choice and was not coerced or irresistibly imposed upon us” (Cottrell 1996, 413; emphasis added).

This nullifies Calvinism’s dogma of predestination, and denominationalism’s practice of infant sprinkling.

Coming to Jesus
The fourth verb is “comes.” Only those who are taught the truth, listen intently with the motive of learning, and who understand the foundational elements of the gospel are qualified to come to Christ.

While coming is the result of God’s drawing by means of revealed truth, the term contains the implication that one has the ability when the preliminary requisites are satisfied to come to the Lord.

Coming is not the result of divine compulsion. It derives from an intellectual and emotional decision to surrender to the Savior. Simple logic provides a clear picture of the process.

God draws. People come.
Those who come, however, are those who have been taught, who have heard and learned.
Hence it is perfectly transparent that God draws sincere people by means of gospel instruction by which people are taught, hear, and learn.
Jesus invited the people of certain cities in Galilee to “come unto me” (Mt. 11:28), and that invitation had resident within it the implied ability to obey. Why invite those to come, who simply cannot, because of an alleged depravity that holds them incapacitated by sin?

In the final days prior to his crucifixion, Christ wept over the city of Jerusalem, lamenting the fact that though he had longed to gather them under his protective care, they would not (Mt. 23:37). There is a vast difference between “would not” and “could not.” However, if a stubborn person practices “I won’t” long enough, it can become “I can’t” (Jn. 12:39). See also John 5:40 and Revelation 22:17 for the matter of free will.
The Drawing Power of God

 

[anti-conformist]

you keep coming back to the point that God somehow needs us or is powerless to do anything. why?

 

[Saint Steven]

A bit.

Not my intention.
Did I hit a nerve with my "green light" question?
It might be worth discussing.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why so dismissive? Did I offend you?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Have you ever had a green light experience? (a Spirit-led encounter)

 

[anti-conformist]

According to John 6:45 the drawing is done when men are "taught" "heard" and "learn" then men come to Christ. So God's drawing is not some mysterious, miraculous event that occurs separately and apart from His word, the Bible, being taugh, heard and learned. God's drawing does not occur apart from evangelizing......no salvation apart from preaching, 1 Corinthians 1:21......

wrong...

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[Love First]

you keep coming back to the point that God somehow needs us or is powerless to do anything. why?

We are the body of Christ. What does a body do? It works.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[Love First]

Not my intention.
Did I hit a nerve with my "green light" question?
It might be worth discussing.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why so dismissive? Did I offend you?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Have you ever had a green light experience? (a Spirit-led encounter)

Well I’ve been a Christian most of my life so asking me if I’ve ever had a green light spiritual experience is sort of like asking a cow if it eats grass.

 

[anti-conformist]

We are the body of Christ. What does a body do? It works.

work doesnt mean evangelism....

1 Thessalonians 4
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,