If there was no heaven, would you still want to be a Christian?

[Semper-Fi]

If there was no heaven,

What does Heaven include?
The bible has 3 heavens mentioned.

The birds fly through the first firmament of Heaven.
The second Heaven is space where astronauts fly in.

The 3rd Heaven is where God resides, where no man
has ever been, that is besides our risen Christ.
-

would you still be a Christian?

But without faith it is impossible to please him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Semper-Fi]

And hell is for eternity.

hell will be cast into the lake of fire, to be no more.

 

[atpollard]

What does Heaven include?
The bible has 3 heavens mentioned.

The birds fly through the first firmament of Heaven.
The second Heaven is space where astronauts fly in.

The 3rd Heaven is where God resides, where no man
has ever been, that is besides our risen Christ.
-



But without faith it is impossible to please him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen.

That was sort of a verbose non-answer to a rather simple question.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

More to the point
If you want to expound on your answer use this and or vote.
The vote on this one is important as you can answer honestly without judgment.
Even so, think on this as there could still be a Jesus or not.

I would still choose to walk my whole life with Him as He is worth knowing whether there is a life after this one or not. I do not serve Him because of what I get out of Him, either comfort or pleasure. I serve Him because of who He is, His character, His humor, His goodnes (ethics and morals), His understanding, His logic, His reasoning, these sorts of matters make Him the most valuable relationship I have in my life.

 

[Bradskii]

hell will be cast into the lake of fire, to be no more.

One ceases to exist? Gee, almost exactly like dying.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

One ceases to exist? Gee, almost exactly like dying.

It is the wish of every evil person who ever lived. For them, ceasing to exist is the only "heaven" they want. They got away with all the wrong they ever did on earth.

 

[Bradskii]

It is the wish of every evil person who ever lived. For them, ceasing to exist is the only "heaven" they want. They got away with all the wrong they ever did on earth.

Luckily for them, Dorothy, it's not your call. Can an evil woman truly repent on her death bed and be saved?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Luckily for them, Dorothy, it's not your call. Can an evil woman truly repent on her death bed and be saved?

Interesting as I was not judging but merely pointing out that atheists WANT to cease to exist after death. It is what they want, not what I want. Strange that you do not see that is the statement.

The question you pose is also disconnected from what I wrote. Anyone can repent on their death bed. That is not the issue. The issue is deciding to believe that no one will suffer after this life for the evil they do but merely be "put to sleep" so no justice is done to them for what they did to others or if there will be a Judgement day where each person will give an account for the deeds done in the body, both good and bad. (The latter is what the Bible says and is what I believe so while it is never my call, it is God's call and that is what he says happens.)

 

[Bradskii]

Interesting as I was not judging but merely pointing out that atheists WANT to cease to exist after death. It is what they want, not what I want. Strange that you do not see that is the statement.

The question you pose is also disconnected from what I wrote. Anyone can repent on their death bed. That is not the issue. The issue is deciding to believe that no one will suffer after this life for the evil they do but merely be "put to sleep" so no justice is done to them for what they did to others or if there will be a Judgement day where each person will give an account for the deeds done in the body, both good and bad. (The latter is what the Bible says and is what I believe so while it is never my call, it is God's call and that is what he says happens.)

You think that atheists prefer to cease to exist rather than have eternal bliss? Who have you been talking to that plumps for non existence versus a happy-ever-after? Although there is an argument that says an eternal life is the equivalent of hell. And that argument carries some weight.

But it's not that atheists prefer death to hell or heaven. That would be like me suggesting that you'd prefer heaven over Valhalla. It would be nonsensical because you don't believe in Valhalla. See the connection?

And if an evil person can truly repent on her deathbed, it looks like that not only can she get away with her evil deeds, but she'll actually be rewarded for her repentance. Such is the Christian view of justice...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You think that atheists prefer to cease to exist rather than have eternal bliss? Who have you been talking to that plumps for non existence versus a happy-ever-after? Although there is an argument that says an eternal life is the equivalent of hell. And that argument carries some weight.

That was not the issue. I have talked with many atheists who all think there is no existance after death and are quite comfortable with that. I have not yet talked to an atheist who thought there was eteranl bliss waiting for them. You see, being atheists, they don't believe in life after death.

But it's not that atheists prefer death to hell or heaven. That would be like me suggesting that you'd prefer heaven over Valhalla. It would be nonsensical because you don't believe in Valhalla. See the connection?

No one said anything close to the above. What was said was that atheists are expecting that they cease to exist after this life and are quite content with that by and large. This life is all there is for them. If that is what happens for them, then they got their wish, ergo, heaven.

And if an evil person can truly repent on her deathbed, it looks like that not only can she get away with her evil deeds, but she'll actually be rewarded for her repentance. Such is the Christian view of justice...

No, you forget that there is judgement to follow where we will all give an account for the deeds done in the body. They will have escaped hell but that does not mean that they will not arrive at heaven poor and naked the whole of their lives having amounted to zero.

 

[Bradskii]

That was not the issue. I have talked with many atheists who all think there is no existance after death and are quite comfortable with that. I have not yet talked to an atheist who thought there was eteranl bliss waiting for them. You see, being atheists, they don't believe in life after death.
No one said anything close to the above. What was said was that atheists are expecting that they cease to exist after this life and are quite content with that by and large. This life is all there is for them. If that is what happens for them, then they got their wish, ergo, heaven.
No, you forget that there is judgement to follow where we will all give an account for the deeds done in the body. They will have escaped hell but that does not mean that they will not arrive at heaven poor and naked the whole of their lives having amounted to zero.

No, you are moving the goalposts ever so slightly. You said that atheists want to die as opposed to going to hell. Which would be like you wanting to go to heaven as opposed to Valhalla. Neither of which makes sense. Because atheists don't believe in hell and you don't believe in Valhalla. There is no choice.

And it seems that you concede that evil people can and do make it to heaven. As I said, it doesn't comport with my idea of justice. But that might just be me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, you are moving the goalposts ever so slightly. You said that atheists want to die as opposed to going to hell. Which would be like you wanting to go to heaven as opposed to Valhalla. Neither of which makes sense. Because atheists don't believe in hell and you don't believe in Valhalla. There is no choice.

And it seems that you concede that evil people can and do make it to heaven. As I said, it doesn't comport with my idea of justice. But that might just be me. Your mileage may vary.

You are changing my words. I did not say athiests want to die. I said atheists want to cease to exist once dead. Please do not change my words and then accuse me of changing goal posts.

Maybe you haven't dealt much with atheists. If you meet any and engage in conversation, ask them if they think there is life after death and do they mind the idea of ceasing to exist at all.

 

[Bradskii]

You are changing my words. I did not say athiests want to die. I said atheists want to cease to exist once dead.

Ah. So after we die, we then want to cease to exist. As opposed to..what exactly? Do you have any options that atheists might consider?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ah. So after we die, we then want to cease to exist. As opposed to..what exactly? Do you have any options that atheists might consider?

Since you speak in "we" are you an atheist? I mean how else am I to understand the above?

But again you change my words to make them look foolish. I will repeat it and try not to change them. I have talked to many an atheist who is still alive (never talked to a dead one yet for obvious reasons) and they express easily and without emotion that they believe this life is all there is and after death there is no life (ceasing to exist) and they are quite comfortable with that. Is that now clear? Just ask an atheist if they expect there is an afterlife and if ceasing to exist at all is ok with them. Don't ask me, ask them if they are bothered with ceasing to exist. And please try not to jump into the absurd. No one is talking to dead atheists asking them what they want now that they are dead.

 

[Bradskii]

Since you speak in "we" are you an atheist? I mean how else am I to understand the above?

But again you change my words to make them look foolish. I will repeat it and try not to change them. I have talked to many an atheist who is still alive (never talked to a dead one yet for obvious reasons) and they express easily and without emotion that they believe this life is all there is and after death there is no life (ceasing to exist) and they are quite comfortable with that. Is that now clear? Just ask an atheist if they expect there is an afterlife and if ceasing to exist at all is ok with them. Don't ask me, ask them if they are bothered with ceasing to exist. And please try not to jump into the absurd. No one is talking to dead atheists asking them what they want now that they are dead.

See where it says 'non denom' in your panel on the left? Mine says 'atheist'. And if I may quote you...

'I did not say athiests want to die. I said atheists want to cease to exist once dead.' And went on to say 'It is what they want...'

Maybe you didn't mean to say that. Because (and English is my first language) it means that once an atheist is dead they then want to cease to exist. Which is nonsensical because death and ceasing to exist are exactly the same thing. Hence it isn't something to want as preferred to something else (heaven v Valhalla). There is no choice. There are no options.

Perhaps you meant to say that atheists believe they cease to exist once dead. And that we're quite happy with that concept. Which means something completely different.

 

[Semper-Fi]

One ceases to exist? Gee, almost exactly like dying.

It is called the second death. That For all eternity
there is no coming back alive from this death.

All mankind is appointed to die once, but ....

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests
of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years
were finished. This is the first resurrection."

 

[Bradskii]

It is called the second death. That For all eternity
there is no coming back alive from this death.

All mankind is appointed to die once, but ....

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests
of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years
were finished. This is the first resurrection."

That's a Christian perspective. We were talking about how an atheist considers death. In which case there is no 'second death'. You don't come back from the first one...

 

[Semper-Fi]

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how
say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: and if
Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 

[returntosender]

It is the wish of every evil person who ever lived. For them, ceasing to exist is the only "heaven" they want. They got away with all the wrong they ever did on earth.

I don't think they get away with anything. They lose everything that counts

 

[Bradskii]

I don't think they get away with anything. They lose everything that counts

Unless they honestly repent. Then it's for God to decide.