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What do you believe about January 6th?

Did Trump supporters violently take over the capitol on January 6th.

  • Yes.

    Votes: 76 75.2%
  • No.

    Votes: 25 24.8%

  • Total voters
    101

Albion

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We are now up to 10 people on this forum who do not believe Trump supporters violently took over the capitol on January 6th.

Took over? That is laughable rhetoric

I saw it a little bit differently. There's so much that's wrong or missing in that statement that it doesn't do anything towards us reaching a conclusion one way or the other.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Trump supporters sympathize, make excuses and condone the actions of those who broke the law. And then try to minimize it by comparing to other riots.

You stereotype people based on the actions of a very small percentage of people within any group. It’s a deceptive, dishonest tactic. Kind of like saying people from the Middle East are horrible people because they killed over 3,000 Americans on 9/11. Sounds pretty stupid doesn’t it?
 
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Sophrosyne

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I think you and I are going to disagree on the definition of 'far away'.



Why one person? Why not two? Three? There's absolutely no way to know how many people that took. You can guess all day long, but it's just a flat guess. You really have nothing to base that on.

Not that it terribly matters. I doubt it took twenty or something people to make it, but the fact that it stayed up and the crowd didn't seem to have a problem with says a lot about where their intentions were.


So they suck at making a gallows. So what? No one claimed they were good at craftsmanship. I imagine most people don't know how to make a proper gallows, it's not exactly a common skillset these days.
You cannot convict people based upon intentions without action and proof. Many people have been very upset and have said they are going to kill someone and threaten them and then point a gun at them and not been convicted of murder or even attempted murder because people realize that they weren't going to kill them but were just angry and being stupid. A lot of people on the left have threatened people publicly on camera and it was considered free speech because they didn't do it. There were people saying Trump should be hanged that and were reported saying it one even made prop of a hanging and it was ruled as free speech.
 
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Sophrosyne

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I don't know. Does that matter? How many people have to want Mike Pence hung in that crowd before you consider it a real problem? 10? 20?

I'm also not sure how you come to the conclusion that certain individuals in the mob wanted a specific thing done somehow keeps it from being a mob. Nothing about the definition of the word 'mob' says that. A mob can be focused on a single goal, or multiple goals, or just be a chaotic mess.
To hang someone takes more than just thinking as a mob. It is one thing to hurt someone but many people want nothing to do with murder and that someone has to rile them up to that effort... encite them to that end. That has to be proven and so far the only "suggestion" you have is a prop of some gallows and people chanting.
If we had someone with a bottle of alchohol with an unlit rag in it standing around while BLM were chanting Pigs fry them like bacon using your logic they should all be tried for attempted murder.. everyone in that protest.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Took over? That is laughable rhetoric
upload_2021-5-18_15-29-51.jpeg
upload_2021-5-18_15-30-2.jpeg


Looks like take over to me.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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I saw it a little bit differently. There's so much that's wrong or missing in that statement that it doesn't do anything towards us reaching a conclusion one way or the other.
I don't know what you mean.
 
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lasthero

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You cannot convict people based upon intentions without action and proof.
Who’s talking about convicting anyone? I’m just stating my take on the subject. I never claimed to have proof.

Many people have been very upset and have said they are going to kill someone and threaten them and then point a gun at them and not been convicted of murder or even attempted murder because people realize that they weren't going to kill them but were just angry and being stupid.
True, though those people are still guilty of a crime. Pointing a gun at someone is usually taken as a threat, and whether you were actually going to do it or not won’t save you from jail time.

A lot of people on the left have threatened people publicly on camera and it was considered free speech because they didn't do it.
And you can talk about those people somewhere else. That’s not the subject here.

I’m not playing the ‘whatabout’ game.[/quote]
 
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lasthero

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To hang someone takes more than just thinking as a mob.
No, it doesn’t.


It is one thing to hurt someone but many people want nothing to do with murder and that someone has to rile them up to that effort... encite them to that end.
Not even close to true. Mobs of people have been known to kill people before. I’d suggest you look up the term ‘herd mentatility’.

That has to be proven and so far the only "suggestion" you have is a prop of some gallows and people chanting.

So, when Trump fans chant ‘build the wall’, do they not actually want to build a wall? When they chant ‘lock her up’, do they not want Clinton locked up? How do you tell the difference between when they want what they’re chanting and they don’t really?
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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You stereotype people based on the actions of a very small percentage of people within any group. It’s a deceptive, dishonest tactic. Kind of like saying people from the Middle East are horrible people because they killed over 3,000 Americans on 9/11. Sounds pretty stupid doesn’t it?
That is not what I am doing at all. Nearly 20% who responded to the poll deny the magnitude and significance of what happened at the capitol on 1/6.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That is not what I am doing at all. Nearly 20% who responded to the poll deny the magnitude and significance of what happened at the capitol on 1/6.

That is exactly what your doing because I’m a Trump supporter who openly stated in this forum that those who entered the capital building should be arrested and I even went as far to say that the woman who was shot and killed got what she deserved because it’s the capital building not a convenient store or some fast food restaurant. There’s high security sensitive information in that building and attempting to gain access to a high security area of the government has steeper penalties than a simple breaking and entering in some local business or place of residence. So you are stereotyping Trump supporters because you just included me in with some people within the group who are trying to downplay the seriousness of that event. Furthermore your ignoring the actual percentage of Trump supporters who took part in that event. Did you notice a difference in the crowd size outside the building as opposed to inside the building?
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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That is exactly what your doing because I’m a Trump supporter who openly stated in this forum that those who entered the capital building should be arrested and I even went as far to say that the woman who was shot and killed got what she deserved because it’s the capital building not a convenient store or some fast food restaurant. There’s high security sensitive information in that building and attempting to gain access to a high security area of the government has steeper penalties than a simple breaking and entering in some local business or place of residence. So you are stereotyping Trump supporters because you just included me in with some people within the group who are trying to downplay the seriousness of that event. Furthermore your ignoring the actual percentage of Trump supporters who took part in that event. Did you notice a difference in the crowd size outside the building as opposed to inside the building?
My apology. I applaud you for not going the way of many others.
What insurrection? Growing number in GOP downplay Jan. 6
 
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BNR32FAN

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My apology. I applaud you for not going the way of many others.
What insurrection? Growing number in GOP downplay Jan. 6

Apology accepted friend. I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom to assemble as long as it’s done in accordance to the law. Unfortunately there’s going to be idiots in any group of this magnitude but we can’t resort to condemning or labeling the entire group based on the low percentage of idiots within that group.
 
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Brihaha

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We are now up to 10 people on this forum who do not believe Trump supporters violently took over the capitol on January 6th. Almost 20%. I am stunned. I thought there might be a few, but this like flat Earth stuff.

Cults are a fascinating enigma.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Who’s talking about convicting anyone? I’m just stating my take on the subject. I never claimed to have proof.
You been talking as if everyone is guilty, if you don't have proof why insist things as if they are facts?
True, though those people are still guilty of a crime. Pointing a gun at someone is usually taken as a threat, and whether you were actually going to do it or not won’t save you from jail time.
Nonsense it is not illegal to point a gun at someone happens often. No court of law is going to consider it a crime without extenuating circumstances to support it. One has to have a valid threat involved to even start considering it illegal. Protection orders are typically given for people who are "threatened" by someone with a gun and they typically are not arrested the first time it happens by default.
And you can talk about those people somewhere else. That’s not the subject here.

I’m not playing the ‘whatabout’ game.
[/QUOTE]
[/quote]If you make exaggerated claims without substantiated proof (which you claim to not have) then we can compare the actions of others making such claims and other situations that are very similar where those claims were not made and ascertain why the angst now and not then?
 
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Sophrosyne

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Apology accepted friend. I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom to assemble as long as it’s done in accordance to the law. Unfortunately there’s going to be idiots in any group of this magnitude but we can’t resort to condemning or labeling the entire group based on the low percentage of idiots within that group.
Exactly right... let the idiots get their just rewards in time..... people need to stop rushing things and tossing people who were just hanging out at the capital as if it were a social gathering and did little to nothing wrong but some here want to be totally unreasonable and insist that ALL there were idiots and etc.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Exactly right... let the idiots get their just rewards in time..... people need to stop rushing things and tossing people who were just hanging out at the capital as if it were a social gathering and did little to nothing wrong but some here want to be totally unreasonable and insist that ALL there were idiots and etc.
I was merely trying to see how many here agree that it happened. And by "it" I mean Trump supporters violently take over the capitol on January 6th. How did you vote, Sophrosyne?
 
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Sophrosyne

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Sophrosyne

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I was merely trying to see how many here agree that it happened. And by "it" I mean Trump supporters violently take over the capitol on January 6th. How did you vote, Sophrosyne?
The problem is you are asking a loaded question and none of us are really buying the way you are wording it so if we answer the question as asked then we are agreeing that what you say was what happened and I don't see it as a violent takeover at all but rather a bunch of people who started an "almost peaceful protest". I could quote a lot of what the left calls "violence" as it pertained to BLM protests but I think the irony will be lost on you.
 
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Vylo

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Looks like nothing to me could be pictures from the entrance hall of a building I don't see any guns and people wielding them to cement a takeover how do you expect to take over something when you don't have any way to fend off the Capital police.
That's the Senate chamber they are in. They pushed in due to their being a lack of heavily armed police. In one case they did push too hard at the house chambers and a cop shot them, but due this is probably also due to heavily armed reinforcements being not too far behind, which you can see them arrive just afterwards.
 
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