JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[Leaf473]

No not saying that at all. I have only posted scripture from the new testament that specifically states that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin from Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11;

I've talked about Romans 7:7 referring to the entire law, my last post on that was #1376 . I can talk about that more if you wish, just let me know.

As we talked about earlier, I'm going through your post 1341 section by section. The next section is James 2:10-11.

Looking at the context that occurs just before,
"But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors."

Again, I believe that James is referring to the entire law. I think showing partiality is something that the law says not to do.

And again, similar to what Paul does in Romans, James refers to the entire law and uses two of the most well-known commandments, adultery and murder as examples.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I've talked about Romans 7:7 referring to the entire law, my last post on that was #1376 . I can talk about that more if you wish, just let me know.

As we talked about earlier, I'm going through your post 1341 section by section. The next section is James 2:10-11.

Looking at the context that occurs just before,
"But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors."

Again, I believe that James is referring to the entire law. I think showing partiality is something that the law says not to do.

And again, similar to what Paul does in Romans, James refers to the entire law and uses two of the most well-known commandments, adultery and murder as examples.

No you simply tried to avoid the questions asked of you. Romans 7:7; as well as James 2:10-11 show in the contexts of the scriptures provided to you that they were talking about the 10 commandments and to break anyone of them is sin by directly quoting the 10 commandments in the scripture contexts.

Are you still trying to claim that these scriptures are not talking about Gods' 10 commandments in the new covenant? If you agree that they are talking directly about the 10 commandments then it seems you have a problem with the 4th Commandment 'seventh day Sabbath" as it is one of God's 10 commandments that according to the scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them according to James and Paul we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11 and Romans 3:19-20.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says Gods' 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This of course being a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from Gods' Word to break the commandments of God.

Jesus says that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9 that we are not worshiping God. So who should we believe God or man? Gods' has His people in every Church according to John 10:16. The hour is coming and now is according to John 4:23 that the true worshipers (those who do not break God's commandments - Matthew 15:3-9) will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:24. Fear God therefore and give glory to Him for the hour of God's judgement has come and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters - Revelation 14:7.

God is calling us wherever we might be to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *Revelation 18:4 back to the pure Word of God because God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

God's sheep therefore according to Jesus will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

Who should we believe and follow, God or man? (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29)

 

[Bob S]

The old covenant God commanded Israel to obey, the covenant was broken due to their disobedience, God did not break the covenant. The new covenant God writes His laws (same laws) in our hearts, so they are fulfilled inside us and we obey because of our love for God, not because He commanded us. So, yes it is still a sin to break any of God’s commandments including not keeping Holy His Sabbath day. Jesus stated clearly He did not come to destroy God’s laws. Mathew 5:17-20 Jesus came to magnify God’s laws, not destroy. Isaiah 42:21 The only laws ended at the cross are the ceremonial laws, blood sacrifices, annual feast days etc. not God’s Ten that we are told are eternal. Psalms 111:7, 8, Psalms 89:34. God bless

It is obvious then that you do not believe Jesus own words in Jn 15:10-14.

Who indicated God broke the covenant?

Same covenant??? You have to be kidding. Since you believe that the covenants are the same, why aren't you sacrificing animals, keeping the new moons and feast days to name a very few of the commands of the covenant that is supposed to be written on your ❤?

 

[Bob S]

Not the same Greek word.
And all has not been fulfilled because Heaven and Earth have not passed away and Jesus has not come again to put an end to all this and establish His Heavenly Kingdom.

Are you sure you know what fulfill means were Jesus said I came to fulfill the law? Did Jesus fail to do what He came to do? If Jesus failed to fulfill the law then as he said nothing could be removed from the Law. If Jesus did what He came to do then by all means the old covenant could and was removed.

 

[HIM]

It is obvious then that you do not believe Jesus own words in Jn 15:10-14. Who indicated God broke the covenant? Same covenant??? You have to be kidding.

How did you ever come with Jesus indicated in His own words in Jn 15:10-14 that, God broke the Covenant?

 

[Leaf473]

No you simply tried to avoid the questions asked of you.

Okay, sounds like it would be good to return to Romans 7:7.

The question I'm aware of that you asked of me was this

What law was Paul referring to in Romans 7:7?

I think Paul is referring to the entire law.

Note: I agree that the commandment he quotes, "Don't covet", is part of the ten commandments. It is also part of the entire law. Based on the context, I believe Paul is referring to the entire law.

Does that answer your question?

 

[HIM]

Are you sure you know what fulfill means were
.

Yes. Heaven and Earth have not passed away and all has not been fulfilled.

How do we know?

Because if Heaven and Earth have passed away the New would be and it is not.

And because Jesus has not come again we are still waiting.

 

[chad kincham]

Could you give us a verse of scripture, from anywhere once the NC is in operation where the words: Ten Commandments are used
Only you keep repeating the words TC, yet I can't find one verse of scripture in my Bible, once the NC us in operation, where the words Ten Commandments are written

Because they ignore that the two love commands replace the Decalogue in the new covenant, and that Jesus and Paul taught the law of Love in the NT, not the law of Moses - then claim wherever the word COMMANDS or LAW appears, it means the ten commands, or law of Moses.

 

[HIM]

Because they ignore that the two love commands replace the Decalogue in the new covenant, and that Jesus and Paul taught the law of Love in the NT, not the law of Moses - then claim wherever the word COMMANDS or LAW appears, it means the ten commands, or law of Moses.

That is not true. The text says on these two hang, depend all the law and prophets not replace. Don't add what is not there.

 

[Freth]

Are you sure you know what fulfill means were Jesus said I came to fulfill the law? Did Jesus fail to do what He came to do? If Jesus failed to fulfill the law then as he said nothing could be removed from the Law. If Jesus did what He came to do then by all means the old covenant could and was removed.

Jesus said:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.​

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
​

These two verses alone should settle the idea that the work of Jesus ended at the cross and that the law was somehow fulfilled.

• Jesus' work continues as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. —Hebrews 8:1-2, Hebrews 9:8, Hebrews 9:12
• Prophecies of Revelation, which is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, are still being fulfilled.
• The second coming of Jesus is still in the future. —Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, Revelation 1:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 20:6

 

[Leaf473]

A note on Jesus saying that he did not come to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill them.

The verb "come" is in the aorist tense in the original. That tense doesn't exist in English, so it's usually translated in the past tense.

I don't think Jesus is saying he came to start the process of fulfilling the law and the prophets. I think he is saying that his coming, 2000 years ago, fulfilled the law and the prophets.

A common objection is that there are still prophecies left to be fulfilled. This is true. But Jesus says "prophets" not "prophecies".

 

[Bob S]

Jesus said:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.​

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
​

These two verses alone should settle the idea that the work of Jesus ended at the cross and that the law was somehow fulfilled.

Somehow? Jesus did what no Israel was able to do, He kept the Law perfectly. He fulfilled the obligation that God set forth for His special people. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice for Israel and all mankind. Thus, all being accomplished Jesus gave Himself, the Law was brought to an end at Calvary.

• 
  

  [*]Jesus' work continues as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. —Hebrews 8:1-2, Hebrews 9:8, Hebrews 9:12
  [*]Prophecies of Revelation, which is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, are still being fulfilled.
  [*]The second coming of Jesus is still in the future. —Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, Revelation 1:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 20:6

  I have not read where anyone thinks all Jesus work for all mankind has ended. The part Jesus came to do has ended. Jews are not under the old covenant law and the remainder of mankind never was under it. Why would anyone think anyone would have to pay homage to the special laws that once were for one special nation?

 

[Bob S]

How did you ever come with Jesus indicated in His own words in Jn 15:10-14 that, God broke the Covenant?

Hi Him, Sorry for the confusion in post #1403. I edited it to make my thoughts easier to understand. Israel broke the covenant many times, but God, being an all-knowing God of Love and forgiveness formulated a plan before the foundation of the Earth that included the Savior of mankind, not just failed Israel.

 

[Leaf473]

No you simply tried to avoid the questions asked of you. Romans 7:7; as well as James 2:10-11 show in the contexts of the scriptures provided to you that they were talking about the 10 commandments and to break anyone of them is sin by directly quoting the 10 commandments in the scripture contexts.

I responded to your question about Romans 7:7 in post 1406. Did I answer your question? Please let me know.

Do you believe that Romans 7:7; and James 2:10-11 are talking about the Ten commandments only?

I think those two passages are talking about a set of laws that includes the Ten commandments but has many other laws as well. Do you agree with that? Or are you saying that only the 10 commandments are being talked about in those two passages?

 

[Leaf473]

I have only posted scripture from the new testament that specifically states that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin from Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11;1 John 3:4 because Gods' 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

Continuing with going section by section,

Bible translations are about equally divided on 1 John 3:4. Some give the sense of "sin is transgression of the law", that is to say crossing a boundary set up by the law. Others go with "sin is lawlessness", carrying the idea of living in the absence of law of any kind, being unrestrained.

If it's "sin is transgression of the law", I don't see anything in the passage that indicates that it's just the Ten commandments that are the law being talked about.

If it's "sin is lawlessness", that sounds like any reasonable collection of laws, including but not limited to the Ten commandments.

 

[Leaf473]

@LoveGodsWord

Bottom line so far as I see it:
The Bible doesn't present the law with handy divisions, such as moral, ceremonial, etc.

If a person wishes to divide up the law that way, they will at some point go with what seems right to them. Hopefully they are led by the holy Spirit in that.

What seems right to me is treating all days alike. The fourth commandment would then be ceremonial, if I have to divide up the law that way.

 

[Leaf473]

Continuing on section by section,

...because Gods' 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

The next thing said in that scripture passage is
"But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets."

It is much more than the 10 commandments that testify to God's righteousness that was to be revealed.

Law in this context, then, refers to more than the 10 commandments, imo.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I responded to your question about Romans 7:7 in post 1406. Did I answer your question? Please let me know.

Do you believe that Romans 7:7; and James 2:10-11 are talking about the Ten commandments only?

I think those two passages are talking about a set of laws that includes the Ten commandments but has many other laws as well. Do you agree with that? Or are you saying that only the 10 commandments are being talked about in those two passages?

What law is Romans 7:7 and James 2:10-11 talking about?

Hints below...

Thou Shalt nor covet - Romans 7:7 from ---> Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not murder - James 2:10-11 from ---> Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not commit adultery - James 2:10-11 from ---> Exodus 20:14

Your seeking to avoid answering this. I can understand why. If you do not want to answer the questions asked you just say so. Also, if your not interested in responding to my posts that I spend some time writing to you about I am sure we both have better things to do with our time.

I will answer the above question for you though. The above scriptures from Romans 7:7 and James 2:10-11 are direct references to context and subject matter which is Gods' 10 commandments. This is what the scriptures say verbatim (word for word). They are Gods' Words not my words.

Now do you believe that it is sin to break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Continuing with going section by section,

Bible translations are about equally divided on 1 John 3:4. Some give the sense of "sin is transgression of the law", that is to say crossing a boundary set up by the law. Others go with "sin is lawlessness", carrying the idea of living in the absence of law of any kind, being unrestrained.

If it's "sin is transgression of the law", I don't see anything in the passage that indicates that it's just the Ten commandments that are the law being talked about.

If it's "sin is lawlessness", that sounds like any reasonable collection of laws, including but not limited to the Ten commandments.

How does 1 John 3:4 link to other scriptures on subject matter? (e.g. Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20). How does 1 John 3:4 link directly to James 2:10-11? Is it sin to break God's 10 commandments?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

@LoveGodsWord

Bottom line so far as I see it:
The Bible doesn't present the law with handy divisions, such as moral, ceremonial, etc.

If a person wishes to divide up the law that way, they will at some point go with what seems right to them. Hopefully they are led by the holy Spirit in that.

What seems right to me is treating all days alike. The fourth commandment would then be ceremonial, if I have to divide up the law that way.

That would be against scripture that has already been provided to you that you choose to ignore. This is why I am considering finishing our discussion with you.