Who is in charge here?

[Hammster]

It is describing what will happen during the millennial kingdom, when Jesus is fully in charge of this Earth.

So if it is not happening now, Jesus cannot be fully in charge yet.

So this must happen on day one?

 

[Hammster]

Satan is god of this world among all the secular world, for now, and we are born into his kingdom of darkness, and he is our spiritual father until we change kingdom’s when born again.

Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth, and He, and we through Him, can override Satan and his powers of darkness at any time if he attacks believers with sickness or oppression, etc.

It looks like you are saying that we are in charge, but we get to pick teams.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That’s not how Jesus saw it. He painted a picture of a kingdom here and now, and that it would continue to grow.

The kingdom of God does continue to grow. See also Ephesians 2:22 and context.

Since God is a spirit, the kingdom of God is also spiritual, it's not what you see with your eyes.

 

[Hammster]

The kingdom of God does continue to grow. See also Ephesians 2:22 and context.

Since God is a spirit, the kingdom of God is also spiritual, it's not what you see with your eyes.

It’s not only what you see with your eyes. I see it every Sunday when I gather with the Saints, for instance.

 

[Guojing]

So this must happen on day one?

I don't know whether it must happen on day 1, but Jesus ruling over the Earth means we are restored back to the Garden of Eden, before Adam fell.

That is when every animal is basically vegetarian.

 

[Hammster]

I don't know whether it must happen on day 1, but Jesus ruling over the Earth means we are restored back to the Garden of Eden, before Adam fell.

That is when every animal is basically vegetarian.

So it could happen on the last day.

 

[Guojing]

So it could happen on the last day.

Well if you need that to make your doctrine "Jesus is ruling NOW on earth" works, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Hammster]

Well if you need that to make your doctrine "Jesus is ruling NOW on earth" works, whatever floats your boat.

It’s not what floats my boat that’s in view. I’m just pointing out that it could happen on the last day. If you have a reason that I’m wrong, point it out. No need to make it personal.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It is describing what will happen during the millennial kingdom, when Jesus is fully in charge of this Earth.

So if it is not happening now, Jesus cannot be fully in charge yet.

So, 'fully in charge' means what? Not that he doesn't have all authority, but that he 'allows' Satan 'freedom' to roam? Look how many human concepts, human applications, human descriptions are in this!

 

[Guojing]

So, 'fully in charge' means what? Not that he doesn't have all authority, but that he 'allows' Satan 'freedom' to roam? Look how many human concepts, human applications, human descriptions are in this!

During the millennial reign, Satan will be locked up.

 

[Guojing]

It’s not what floats my boat that’s in view. I’m just pointing out that it could happen on the last day. If you have a reason that I’m wrong, point it out. No need to make it personal.

Was not making it personal, "whatever floats your boat" is an expression for "suit yourself"

 

[Hammster]

Was not making it personal, "whatever floats your boat" is an expression for "suit yourself"

Do you have any reason why my view on that verse is wrong?

 

[GDL]

Since God is a spirit, the kingdom of God is also spiritual, it's not what you see with your eyes.

It’s not only what you see with your eyes. I see it every Sunday when I gather with the Saints, for instance.

A couple quick thoughts re: the visible Kingdom of God:

NKJ 2 Corinthians 3:2-3 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

NKJ John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

[RDKirk]

The term "omnipotent" was used in reference to the emperor of Rome hundreds of years before it was used in reference to God. The term refers to the single entity to whom all powers of government belong and from whom all powers of government flowed. All of the government officials have powers delegated to them from the one who is omnipotent.

For instance, even today ambassadors are called "plenipotentary," meaning that the diplomat has power delegated from the leader of his nation to make decisions for his nation within the country he's posted. His powers are limited, however, to what was delegated by the omnipotent emperor...the nation to which he was posted. The ambassador to Spain has no power in Greece.

The military generals have limited delegated powers, the governors have delegated powers, the dogcatchers have delegated powers. But those powers only exist--in fact, the officials only exist as officials--because of the continuing omnipotent power of the emperor. They have power only because he has power, and they have that power only as long as it is the will of the emperor for them to have that power.

Omnipotence means that the emperor always retains those powers; the emperor's powers are not "given away" by delegation. At any moment, the emperor can personally exercise the powers he has delegated. The emperor can, at any time, go out and catch a dog or command the army, regardless of the fact that he's designated other persons to be dogcatcher and general.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

That last clause is important. God (as the Son) is the omnipotent entity of our created universe. No other power exists by its own will. All other power exists only because God continually wills it to exist.

Including Satan. Satan does not exist by his own will, he exists because God continually wills him to exist.

 

[Chi.C]

The main problem I see with this is that Christ has claimed that He has all authority, and based on that authority, He has given us commands.

The secondary issue is that the majority of Revelation took place in the first century.

I agree with the first statement - God has given Christ all authority to revise history. But he must do so with constraints
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. <the maximum possible of people should be allowed to worship God by means of the Christ>
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. < upon the fulfillment of Rev 6:11, the 7th seal can be opened >
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. < the concept of hegemon, or ordo seclorum is mocked and denied by any rational being. Dustbin of history>

The second issue is the main point of contention. I believe day as year as the metric for endtime prophecy. The 7th seal and the 7 trumpets and 7 vials have not been completed. Thus the Jesus the Anointed King on this Earth has not been realized. The current hegemon is the last. It is still active but in duress.

 

[Hammster]

I agree with the first statement - God has given Christ all authority to revise history. But he must do so with constraints
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. <the maximum possible of people should be allowed to worship God by means of the Christ>
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. < upon the fulfillment of Rev 6:11, the 7th seal can be opened >
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. < the concept of hegemon, or ordo seclorum is mocked and denied by any rational being. Dustbin of history>

The second issue is the main point of contention. I believe day as year as the metric for endtime prophecy. The 7th seal and the 7 trumpets and 7 vials have not been completed. Thus the Jesus the Anointed King on this Earth has not been realized. The current hegemon is the last. It is still active but in duress.

Christ has no restraints. If He did, then He wouldn’t have all authority.

 

[Davy]

The answer still is that Christ's literal Kingdom is not here on earth yet today. It is only here 'spiritually' through His Church here on earth. It is not yet time for Christ's literal reign on earth over all nations and peoples. That will only happen when He returns at His future 2nd coming back... to this earth, per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14, His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.

That is why Jesus said in John 18:36 that His kingdom is not of this present world, otherwise His servants would fight.

Those who think that Christ's literal Kingdom is now established upon this earth will soon understand how that is not yet true when the coming Antichrist is setup in Jerusalem and demands all peoples and nations worship him as God, as written in God's Word (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Revelation 13; Revelation 17; Revelation 6).

 

[Hammster]

The answer still is that Christ's literal Kingdom is not here on earth yet today. It is only here 'spiritually' through His Church here on earth. It is not yet time for Christ's literal reign on earth over all nations and peoples. That will only happen when He returns at His future 2nd coming back... to this earth, per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14, His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.

That is why Jesus said in John 18:36 that His kingdom is not of this present world, otherwise His servants would fight.

Those who think that Christ's literal Kingdom is now established upon this earth will soon understand how that is not yet true when the coming Antichrist is setup in Jerusalem and demands all peoples and nations worship him as God, as written in God's Word (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Revelation 13; Revelation 17; Revelation 6).

Spiritual is literal. His kingdom isn’t in its fullness yet. He gave us parables to describe that it stars small and then grows and grows. Trying to shoehorn in an Antichrist™ that scripture never talks about is a distraction from what Christ has commanded us to do.

 

[Chi.C]

Christ has no restraints. If He did, then He wouldn’t have all authority.

That is a literal interpretation of "all authority" - you view the histories and stories as war and battle, Victory and glory to Ominipotence.
My interpretation is more literary - Jesus is asking the bride to dance. Beauty and Grace because of Omnibenevolence.

The constraints are not intrinsic with Jesus. The constraints are because of the bride. Jesus will use his authority to free us from slavery. But if we chose to dance to a worldly tune, would Jesus join in. Consider "1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." He lead His Horse to water and now He is waiting for all of us to drink.

 

[Hammster]

That is a literal interpretation of "all authority" - you view the histories and stories as war and battle, Victory and glory to Ominipotence.
My interpretation is more literary - Jesus is asking the bride to dance. Beauty and Grace because of Omnibenevolence.

The constraints are not intrinsic with Jesus. The constraints are because of the bride. Jesus will use his authority to free us from slavery. But if we chose to dance to a worldly tune, would Jesus join in. Consider "1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." He lead His Horse to water and now He is waiting for all of us to drink.

It is a literal interpretation. But it’s because not only does the context support it, there are the words of Jesus elsewhere, and OT prophecies to back it up.