Police are NOT hunting down black people

[rambot]

Is suggesting black people are morally inferior to white people racist?

Disgusting.

No I think more it's about othering perpetrators and victims.
The largest correlation of violence is with class and income and not race however black people are over-represented in lower income levels.
At the same time you would think people would recognize the ease with which this problem would be solved. You would think people would see that correlation between economics and violence and would want to work to mitigating that violence by creating more economic equality. But in America people don't want that they would rather have the poor continue to be violent so long as they remain violent amongst each other. or at least I should say they would rather have that than have billionaires pay more in taxes

 

[SummerMadness]

Well...there is undoubtedly immoral people of all colors. But the statistics suggest that the moral values imbraced my many young black men are not ones that are beneficial to their communities. White folk have their own set of issues. But who's fault is it that a father left their baby-mama, forcing the mother to live in poverty and leaving Ice Cube and Lil Kim to raise them?

Your age is showing, Ice Cube and Lil' Kim? Your argument also shows a great deal of ignorance where you believe entertainers have a much greater sway in someone's life than reality shows us. It's the same attitude that people like Trump used when they really believed an endorsement by a rapper would somehow translate into swaying the vote. Last I checked, black people don't consult rappers for their political stance. That attitude applies to other things besides politics. Your attack on culture as the root cause as opposed to racism is no different from the arguments made by folks in the 1870s. Ever since Reconstruction, the idea that black people have a cultural pathology has been pushed. Whether it is jazz or rock 'n' roll, pointing to "culture" ignores all the evidence of racism and its continued effects on American society.

 

[KCfromNC]

And the statistics show that minority groups disproportionately create crimes that perpetuate the stereotype that cause police to target them.

That has little to nothing to do with the post I was responding to. Just one talking point after another when the previous one is shot down.

What makes it so hard about these discussions to stay on a topic for more than a post or two? Almost as if there's a need to constantly distract from something or another.

 

[KCfromNC]

OK you may have a point, he was or the person he was with was shooting up the neighborhood, significant fact: He had the gun when the police arrived and he had gun powder residue on his hand.

One possibility when one's reasons for believing something are shown to be wrong is to reconsider the conclusion. This post presents an alternative approach.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

So how many have they killed? I think you are engaging in moral outrage and hyperbole.

Your age is showing, Ice Cube and Lil' Kim? Your argument also shows a great deal of ignorance where you believe entertainers have a much greater sway in someone's life than reality shows us. It's the same attitude that people like Trump used when they really believed an endorsement by a rapper would somehow translate into swaying the vote. Last I checked, black people don't consult rappers for their political stance. That attitude applies to other things besides politics. Your attack on culture as the root cause as opposed to racism is no different from the arguments made by folks in the 1870s. Ever since Reconstruction, the idea that black people have a cultural pathology has been pushed. Whether it is jazz or rock 'n' roll, pointing to "culture" ignores all the evidence of racism and its continued effects on American society.

I have visited countless young black boys who are behind bars. The funny thing is that not one of them said they were there because of racism. All of them....LITERALLY ALL OF THEM!...either didn't know their father or wished they never had. The filth that is paraded as "musical art" is both a direct reflection of the culture and an influence to culture. These boys grew up watching hip hop since before they were old enough to talk and learned that drugs, sex, and violence are not only normal, but glorified. They saught all of those things because they wrongfully believe that it will give them respect and happiness. Frankly, I am getting tired of having to repair the damage caused by a fatherless black community. People teaching these young men to blame white folk, disrespect our law enforcement, and not accepting responsibility for their own lives is not helping them. Yes, I am morally outraged because I am cleaning up the mess left behind. But at least I am doing something that helps my community. I wish you would also.

 

[SummerMadness]

I have visited countless young black boys who are behind bars. The funny thing is that not one of them said they were there because of racism. All of them....LITERALLY ALL OF THEM!...either didn't know their father or wished they never had. The filth that is paraded as "musical art" is both a direct reflection of the culture and an influence to culture. These boys grew up watching hip hop since before they were old enough to talk and learned that drugs, sex, and violence are not only normal, but glorified. They saught all of those things because they wrongfully believe that it will give them respect and happiness. Frankly, I am getting tired of having to repair the damage caused by a fatherless black community. People teaching these young men to blame white folk, disrespect our law enforcement, and not accepting responsibility for their own lives is not helping them. Yes, I am morally outraged because I am cleaning up the mess left behind. But at least I am doing something that helps my community. I wish you would also.

Ah, I see. You spoke to countless young black boys and when asked what put them in prison, they blamed the rappers. I thought it was the violent video games, but I'll just blame Jr. Walker.

 

[Skreeper]

I have visited countless young black boys who are behind bars. The funny thing is that not one of them said they were there because of racism. All of them....LITERALLY ALL OF THEM!...either didn't know their father or wished they never had. The filth that is paraded as "musical art" is both a direct reflection of the culture and an influence to culture. These boys grew up watching hip hop since before they were old enough to talk and learned that drugs, sex, and violence are not only normal, but glorified. They saught all of those things because they wrongfully believe that it will give them respect and happiness. Frankly, I am getting tired of having to repair the damage caused by a fatherless black community. People teaching these young men to blame white folk, disrespect our law enforcement, and not accepting responsibility for their own lives is not helping them. Yes, I am morally outraged because I am cleaning up the mess left behind. But at least I am doing something that helps my community. I wish you would also.

You sound like someone who saw the Music Video for Montero and is now butt hurt.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Ah, I see. You spoke to countless young black boys and when asked what put them in prison, they blamed the rappers. I thought it was the violent video games, but I'll just blame Jr. Walker.

When asked what put them in prison, they will tell you the crime they were convicted of. Most unfortunately do not take responsibility because they were never taught responsibility. When I ask them why they did the things they done, they usually point to those they look up to and those people are usually who they grew up watching on television. They want to be like the rappers. They think a criminal record will earn them respect. They think women are objects for sexual gratification. They think violence will solve their problems. They think drugs will make them happy. All these are lies that are fed to them every single day. Eventually, there is a breakthrough where the kid discovers the truth. They first become shocked, hurt, then angry. I cannot begin to tell you how angry they become. But they are not angry at the white cop who arrested them or the white judge who sentenced them. They are angry at the black father who abandoned them and the black mother who they watched strung out on drugs every other day and sent their older sister to work the strip selling her body so Mama can get more drugs. They are angry at the gang leader who convinced them they were family only to discover they were merely being used as pawns to smuggle and sell drugs on his behalf. I can write for hours of all the reason why these boys are angry. Frankly, they are right to be angry. Not because of white supremacy or systemic racism, but because their families and communities failed them.

 

[Larniavc]

The filth that is paraded as "musical art" is both a direct reflection of the culture and an influence to culture.

Yeah, that music with it's switchifying affect on people. It's almost as if it came from a culture that's not yours.

Frankly, I am getting tired of having to repair the damage caused by a fatherless black community.

Crikey what would poor black folks do with out you? I bet you can really dance, too.

People teaching these young men to blame white folk,

Uppity. Pure and simple uppity.

I wish you would also.

Psychotherapist for over 15 years. I think that beats your hyperbole.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Psychotherapist for over 15 years. I think that beats your hyperbole.

No hyperbole. I am ministering to kids who are doing time for rape and murder. Just out of curiosity, what does your 15 years of psychotherapy say about a boy who joins a gang at 14 years old so he would "be respected" and "have a family who got his back"?

 

[muichimotsu]

The biggest threat to the black community is believing the lie that their problems are caused by someone else. I mentor troubled teens at the detention center. What do you do to help the black community? If you cannot answer that question, you are part of the problem. But the main problems in the black community begins at the home.

Ah, because I bring up a system, that means I'm blaming someone else. It's not just about people's actions, there are holistic aspects you are ignoring to myopically focus on one reductive point and creating a false dichotomy that also dismisses another factor that would complicate your perspective that wants to gloss over anything that would suggest real change that isn't just regressive moralizing.

The main problems of any community are not going to be solved at the home if there are toxic abusive attitudes encouraged by societal norms. That's a systemic issue, which I don't think you even remotely grasp what that is and instead try to accuse me of blaming people's intentions rather than something that is more abstract and not possessing of intentionality, a system

 

[muichimotsu]

No hyperbole. I am ministering to kids who are doing time for rape and murder. Just out of curiosity, what does your 15 years of psychotherapy say about a boy who joins a gang at 14 years old so he would "be respected" and "have a family who got his back"?

The environment changing in one fashion does not mean you'll necessarily have some grand change in a generation. And, again, someone recognizing the value of diligence does not guarantee that they'll succeed in a country that's marginalized their racial group for centuries, which doesn't just go away because a piece of legislation was signed at any given time that officially gives them protections.

There are still going to be deep seated social norms and consequences of legislation like redlining or such that damage the black community and create internalized racism, to say nothing of implicit racism from people thinking that black people are "lazy" or other horrible stereotypes, along with those that are meant to be "positive".

Working on a case by case basis can change some things, but thinking that a one size fits all approach can be enacted with some moralizing tripe that assumes one factor is the major reason for black crime seems to try and make this, again, all about the group that is disproportionately incarcerated, discriminated against and has had to struggle since their supposed emancipation from slavery in the late 19th century, while white people have been given the benefit of the doubt and favored treatment far more by contrast.

 

[muichimotsu]

What facts would you like, I have no problem with providing evidence, that is the way it should be, if a statement is made it should be backed up.

These claims that somehow all the problems are manufactured to create the problem rather than it being something that isn't going to change just because we pass a law, because it's more systemic and not merely a legal problem

Or just substantiate your original idea in a way that doesn't utilize hyperbole for one.

 

[muichimotsu]

Can you support that opinion or is it just another allegation that has no evidence to back it up. You may not believe this but no department wants a cop who does not follow policy, people on your own team people killed when someone decides to be a cowboy. It also sets everyone back years in their efforts to build relationships with the communities, those relationships are very important and provide an abundance of information and safety for officers.

Never said they intentionally allowed such people in, though American police training seems lacking in contrast to many other 1st world countries where they actually, I don't know, act like law enforcement officers and not on the level of military

And that's apparently why there's always internal investigations and never any real accountability from 99% of police forces, it seems. Why not just open yourself up to this investigation unless you are wanting to work on the same level as military tribunals and the like? What does that say about an institution that it can't be opened up to outside investigation on its misconduct?

 

[muichimotsu]

History is history, we are addressing the situation of today not decades ago. What is there to provide evidence of systematic racism today?

That there are disproportionate negative outcomes for black people in contrast to white people as regards things that should be afforded to all equitably. Trying to be fair doesn't mean one is above biases that can affect how they treat people based on appearances

I'm skeptical you even have taken any time to really understand what is meant by the term systemic racism in the first place

 

[disciple Clint]

I did a deep deep dive into the ins and outs of gun shot residue and after literally minutes of typing a search string came up with the following.

“If the lab technicians find GSR, it can come from anywhere. Police take the view that if you haven’t just left the firing range, you fired the murder weapon. This argument holds great weight if you live in a society where guns are rare, such as Singapore or Japan. If you live in other places in the world, including the United States, that argument means nothing.

GSR lasts nearly forever. It can land on anything and stay there indefinitely. Because so many people in this country shoot guns and the things in their lives are covered with GSR, an individual will be covered with GSR when he or she comes in contact with these people or anything they touched.”

Gun Shot Residue Testing - Is it Still a Viable Form of Physical Evidence?

But all that is irrelevant to the thought process of the cop who saw an unarmed kid with his hands up and shot him square in the chest.

Give us all a break and go back and watch the video of this event in real time, feel free to freeze frame it when you are certain that the officer was not in fear for his life. Everyone is an expert after the facts are known but making the call in real time is another issue.

 

[disciple Clint]

One possibility when one's reasons for believing something are shown to be wrong is to reconsider the conclusion. This post presents an alternative approach.

Just to clear this up for you the question of who pulled the trigger is of no significance, they both conspired and participated in a crime.

 

[disciple Clint]

These claims that somehow all the problems are manufactured to create the problem rather than it being something that isn't going to change just because we pass a law, because it's more systemic and not merely a legal problem

Or just substantiate your original idea in a way that doesn't utilize hyperbole for one.

OK before we get to that you need to provide evidence that there is a systemic problem, I an not going to waste time discussing a problem that does not exist.

 

[disciple Clint]

Never said they intentionally allowed such people in, though American police training seems lacking in contrast to many other 1st world countries where they actually, I don't know, act like law enforcement officers and not on the level of military

And that's apparently why there's always internal investigations and never any real accountability from 99% of police forces, it seems. Why not just open yourself up to this investigation unless you are wanting to work on the same level as military tribunals and the like? What does that say about an institution that it can't be opened up to outside investigation on its misconduct?

Here is my problem, you keep making generalized unsupported statements you have many opinions no doubt based on what you have been told by those who want the problems you mention to exist. You need to check out if these things that you think are true, are actually true.

 

[disciple Clint]

That there are disproportionate negative outcomes for black people in contrast to white people as regards things that should be afforded to all equitably. Trying to be fair doesn't mean one is above biases that can affect how they treat people based on appearances

I'm skeptical you even have taken any time to really understand what is meant by the term systemic racism in the first place

Seriously what systemic racism, you keep using that term, I have asked you to provide evidence that it exists and you have provided none. I cannot have a discussion about something that you cannot even provide evidence is real. There are no doubt things in police work that can be improved but there is accountability and to say that the police are systematically unfair in their treatment of black people is simply not true overall. There are isolated events, there are a few bad cops, there are honest mistakes that are made but that does not constitute anything systematic. There are departments that are almost exclusively filled by black officers, there are many command level black officers, there are black chiefs and assistant chiefs of departments. You are concerned about the amount of interaction between black people and the police, you need to consider that the minority areas of cities are where the majority of requests for police come from. When we talk about limiting the police funding, it is those areas that are going to suffer and the black businessmen and community leaders will be the first to tell you that is true. I hope this answers some of your questions but please take the time to look into things for yourself, find some specifics and I will answer them as honestly as I know how.