Noachian Flood discussion - Bible skeptics vs Lion IRC and friends :)

[Kylie]

Skeptics say that about the real one too, don't they?

And they'd be right. Wooden vessels that size are very dangerous. Look at what happened to the Wyoming. Do you think Noah could have done a better job?

 

[AV1611VET]

Even if it was as seaworthy as possible, wooden vessels of that size are incredibly dangerous on open water.

I don't think any vessel ever made would have been able to withstand the turbulence that was generated by the Flood.

Except, of course, the Ark.

Built by Noah and his sons, rendered indestructible by God until after the Flood, and finally dismantled by Noah to build his home.

 

[inquiring mind]

"Floods all around the world" and "floods over all the world" are *not* the same thing.

The melt of the ice sheets caused many large, local floods from melt water trapped between land features and ice sheets where either the ice, or the land forms failed releasing locally catastrophic floods over hundreds of km.

Here's an article summarizing such floods and listing many examples. Note that none of them happen far from the glaciers.

Glacial lake outburst flood - Wikipedia

One particularly spectacular example is the Missoula floods in the Pacific NW of the US.

An Introduction to the Ice Age Floods – Ice Age Floods Institute

The "Black Sea Flood" (I have the book here somewhere...) is caused by

1. the sea level *dropping* during the ice age as the water was redistributed into ice sheets

2. The Mediterranean Sea dropped below the level of the straight of Gibralter isolating it from the oceans, causing it to drop even further.

3. The Black Sea was cut off from the Med.

4. The Oceans and Med started to rise, and overtopped the land separating Med and Black seas. This rush of water caused the Black Sea to rise fairly rapidly, but in a fashion that would cause to shore to expand at roughly a walking pace.

5. The people abandoning their villages on the dry bottom of the Black Sea carried out stories of a mass flood that forced them out of their villages.

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia


There are problems with this being the origin of the Noah flood myth. There is no rain, and no need for boats to save anyone or animals. It fits much better with a massive flood in an enclosed river basin.

You guys keep looking for regional floods... I don't think he was looking for a regional flood when he went to the Black Sea, or afterwards.

 

[AV1611VET]

And they'd be right. Wooden vessels that size are very dangerous. Look at what happened to the Wyoming. Do you think Noah could have done a better job?

No.

Psalm 127:1a Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:

 

[inquiring mind]

WRONG!.
With the billionaires out of the way, all the wealth they hoard will be available.
All the food they withhold, will be freed.
And you also seem to think that I'm not part of the poor.

When you eat their pie what are going to do?

 

[SelfSim]

For brevity and to be scientific, let's just say Quantum Mechanics. If atoms and electrons can be in two places at once, would God have a problem with animals?

...My answer was serious.

Your (above) answer, was complete and utter nonsense!

You’re back to quantum mechanics… we determined it was quantum physics, a difference, no mathematical laws and most likely uncertain by either of us, certainly me.

More gobbledygook!

Just stop referencing what you have no idea about, whatsoever, please, eh?

 

[inquiring mind]

So you only care about their opinions, and nothing else?

I'm sure you could find any number of people who have whatever viewpoint you want to support. That doesn't mean that their viewpoint is accurate. Take for instance the case of Dr Snelling, who has to lead two lives in order to actually get any proper work published. He can't even be a respected scientist without pretending he isn't a YEC.

I think I pointed that hamstring out before I ever named anyone. I think you asked about conspiracies.

 

[inquiring mind]

And they'd be right. Wooden vessels that size are very dangerous. Look at what happened to the Wyoming. Do you think Noah could have done a better job?

Yep, he did.

 

[inquiring mind]

Your (above) answer, was complete and utter nonsense!
More gobbledygook!

Just stop referencing what you have no idea about, whatsoever, please, eh?

Actually, I was certain about you too.

 

[inquiring mind]

No.

Psalm 127:1a Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:

I stand corrected with my answer. But to be honest I always consider that fact whether I say it or not.

 

[AV1611VET]

I stand corrected with my answer. But to be honest I always consider that fact whether I say it or not.

It's a good verse to memorize -- (but to tell you the truth, I had to look it up).

 

[Bradskii]

I guess my thinking is if God was going to do it all, why would He even bother to put us here?

Knowing that He was going to drown everyone? If's got me beat as well.

 

[Kylie]

I don't think any vessel ever made would have been able to withstand the turbulence that was generated by the Flood.

Except, of course, the Ark.

Built by Noah and his sons, rendered indestructible by God until after the Flood, and finally dismantled by Noah to build his home.

So if God had to step in to make sure all those things worked - that the ark didn't fall apart, that all the animals could get there, that there was enough water, that all the evidence afterwards was cleaned up, all of that... Why did he even bother with the flood in the first place?

As I've said before, there was nothing that was accomplished that God couldn't have accomplished just as easily by snapping his fingers.

 

[Kylie]

I think I pointed that hamstring out before I ever named anyone. I think you asked about conspiracies.

So you maintain that it's a conspiracy then.

 

[Bradskii]

Then I'm free to speculate.

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Have you not noticed that everything that you think might have a natural answer ends up being explained naturally. And everything that doesn't...God did that.

I'm pretty sure that you know what fallacy that is.

 

[Kylie]

No.

Psalm 127:1a Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:

So you fall back to the standard "Goddidit" response.

 

[inquiring mind]

The ark encounter is a *building* fastened to a foundation embedded in the ground with one side crafted to look like a wooden ship. The internal structure is wooden timbers, etc.

Relax, you guys are okay. Like I said, God assured us there wouldn't be another world-wide flood anyway.

 

[Bradskii]

I think I'm a little more explanatory than this.

I not only give specific answers, but back them up with Scripture.

You didn't with the 'roos. You just made it up. God can move anything from A to B if he wanted to so that's what He did.

Something that can explain everything explains nothing.

 

[inquiring mind]

Knowing that He was going to drown everyone? If's got me beat as well.

Well, in a sense we're all drowning anyway. That's part of the story too. Pray and try to be ready is all we can do.

 

[inquiring mind]

So you maintain that it's a conspiracy then.

No, you hung that tag on it.