Cannot Be A Christian If...

Davy

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A Communist cannot be a 'true' Christian, for those philosophies are antichrist.

Biblical institutions Karl Marx's ideas are against...

1. abolition of private property - God's Word establishes the idea of private property. Alms is also Biblical, which is the donating of private property to those in need. Communism has never fulfilled their idea of the abolition of private property, because they simply seize the property of others for use by the ruling class, the high leaders of the Communist Party, and do it in the name of abolition of private property. When only the ruling class has access to everything, then it's in reality just theft of the people.

2. a progressive graduated income tax - before 1913, the United States had no tax on personal income. That actually is a Communist philosophy from Marx's manifesto. By this method the wealth of the people is re-distributed, which is an attack on property rights. God's Word stands as a protector of property rights. It's a God-given right, not a right only the state can give.

3. abolition of rights of inheritance - this basically is the idea of abolishing one's birthright from their parents. There can't be generations of inheriting land under a Communist system. This platform by Marx was part of his theory of the abolition of private property.

4. confiscation of property by immigrants or rebels - just being an immigrant, or disagreeing with the Communist government creates the situation of their seizing their property. This is part of the abolition of private property idea also.

5. centralization of credit in control of the state - this is the National Bank idea, a state-controlled monopoly over a nation's economic system. In Communist countries the state controls the distribution and control of monetary wealth. In the U.S., a move towards this kind of system of control began with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. The Federal Reserve has the ability to create inflation, recessions and depressions, thus controlling the wealth of the people, whereas only Congress is to have authority to regulate coin money, meaning the U.S. dollar backed by a gold standard. Centralization of credit in control by the banks is against the system of a gold standard, even as Allan Greenspan had said in 1966 before being chosen later as chairman of the Federal Reserve. President Andrew Jackson also fought the idea of the national bank charter the New York bankers wanted towards centralization of the control of wealth.

6. centralization of communication and transportation - government controlled communication laws, and transportation laws, which affect people's ability to conduct free enterprise, which is God's way. In Communist countries, this is strictly controlled like in a Nazi type atmosphere.

7. extension of factories and farms in the hands of the state - in Stalinist Russia, people that had worked farms for generations were moved to the cities to work at factories while other peoples (non-farm workers) were used to replace them in a collective. Many starved because of this. The government took over ownership of the farms, as the abolition of private property means seizing all private property by the government. And they decide how it's to be distributed. God's Word says in His future Kingdom we will plant vineyards and build houses, and we won't labor and another take it away or inhabit, that we will enjoy the fruit of our labor (Isaiah 65:21-23).

8. Equal obligation for all to work - no lines drawn between the work done by men and women, eliminating roles of traditional Christian society per God's Plan. The idea is for the woman to leave the home and go to work in the factory, helping to establish the breaking up of the family unit, which family is a very Biblical principle.

9. combination of agriculture and manufacturing in the hands of the state - the plan for a gradual elimination of divisions between town and country. Since Marx's goal was the elimination of private property, it also means the abolition of individual ownership applied to living and working spaces.

10. free education by government controlled institutions; combination of education with industrial education - this is how The Bible was taken out of the schools. There is nothing written in the U.S. Constitution that says one cannot teach Bible in a school. And with schools controlled only by the state, they can determine what is taught to your children, like idiotic systems such as Common Core. At present in the U.S., only the public school systems are under these state controls, the private schools are not, there are still many Christian Bible teaching private schools. The establishing of the U.S. Department of Education was a move towards Marx's totalitarian controlled public school system.
 

Dave L

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A Communist cannot be a 'true' Christian, for those philosophies are antichrist.

Biblical institutions Karl Marx's ideas are against...

1. abolition of private property - God's Word establishes the idea of private property. Alms is also Biblical, which is the donating of private property to those in need. Communism has never fulfilled their idea of the abolition of private property, because they simply seize the property of others for use by the ruling class, the high leaders of the Communist Party, and do it in the name of abolition of private property. When only the ruling class has access to everything, then it's in reality just theft of the people.

2. a progressive graduated income tax - before 1913, the United States had no tax on personal income. That actually is a Communist philosophy from Marx's manifesto. By this method the wealth of the people is re-distributed, which is an attack on property rights. God's Word stands as a protector of property rights. It's a God-given right, not a right only the state can give.

3. abolition of rights of inheritance - this basically is the idea of abolishing one's birthright from their parents. There can't be generations of inheriting land under a Communist system. This platform by Marx was part of his theory of the abolition of private property.

4. confiscation of property by immigrants or rebels - just being an immigrant, or disagreeing with the Communist government creates the situation of their seizing their property. This is part of the abolition of private property idea also.

5. centralization of credit in control of the state - this is the National Bank idea, a state-controlled monopoly over a nation's economic system. In Communist countries the state controls the distribution and control of monetary wealth. In the U.S., a move towards this kind of system of control began with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. The Federal Reserve has the ability to create inflation, recessions and depressions, thus controlling the wealth of the people, whereas only Congress is to have authority to regulate coin money, meaning the U.S. dollar backed by a gold standard. Centralization of credit in control by the banks is against the system of a gold standard, even as Allan Greenspan had said in 1966 before being chosen later as chairman of the Federal Reserve. President Andrew Jackson also fought the idea of the national bank charter the New York bankers wanted towards centralization of the control of wealth.

6. centralization of communication and transportation - government controlled communication laws, and transportation laws, which affect people's ability to conduct free enterprise, which is God's way. In Communist countries, this is strictly controlled like in a Nazi type atmosphere.

7. extension of factories and farms in the hands of the state - in Stalinist Russia, people that had worked farms for generations were moved to the cities to work at factories while other peoples (non-farm workers) were used to replace them in a collective. Many starved because of this. The government took over ownership of the farms, as the abolition of private property means seizing all private property by the government. And they decide how it's to be distributed. God's Word says in His future Kingdom we will plant vineyards and build houses, and we won't labor and another take it away or inhabit, that we will enjoy the fruit of our labor (Isaiah 65:21-23).

8. Equal obligation for all to work - no lines drawn between the work done by men and women, eliminating roles of traditional Christian society per God's Plan. The idea is for the woman to leave the home and go to work in the factory, helping to establish the breaking up of the family unit, which family is a very Biblical principle.

9. combination of agriculture and manufacturing in the hands of the state - the plan for a gradual elimination of divisions between town and country. Since Marx's goal was the elimination of private property, it also means the abolition of individual ownership applied to living and working spaces.

10. free education by government controlled institutions; combination of education with industrial education - this is how The Bible was taken out of the schools. There is nothing written in the U.S. Constitution that says one cannot teach Bible in a school. And with schools controlled only by the state, they can determine what is taught to your children, like idiotic systems such as Common Core. At present in the U.S., only the public school systems are under these state controls, the private schools are not, there are still many Christian Bible teaching private schools. The establishing of the U.S. Department of Education was a move towards Marx's totalitarian controlled public school system.
That's the worst salvation by works scheme I've heard yet.
 
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Davy

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That's the worst salvation by works scheme I've heard yet.

Who said it was about works salvation? I definitely never said that.


It's a simple comparison of Karl Marx's 10 planks from his Communist Manifesto with the reality of Biblical principles, with a bit of modern reality involving infiltration of Communist idealism that has crept into the traditional Christian West.
 
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Dave L

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Who said it was about works salvation? I definitely never said that.


It's a simple comparison of Karl Marx's 10 planks from his Communist Manifesto with the reality of Biblical principles, with a bit of modern reality involving infiltration of Communist idealism that has crept into the traditional Christian West.
You need to ban every nation on the planet and rule them out too as far as Christians living in them are concerned. All are kingdoms of Satan.
 
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Rachel20

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The world is at enmity with God, so I suspect every political system will have, in one form or other, laws that make God's laws of no effect. That's why I never claim any political side as "God's side", even the one I prefer (as the lessor of the evils).
 
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Davy

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Next do a thread that addresses how one can't be a Christian if they are a Capitalist.

-CryptoLutheran

Capitalism is the system of free enterprise, not those who seek to steal people's wealth under the guise of equality for all, which is what Communism says they are about, but in reality they are the 'same' as the wealthy elitists who also seek to steal people's wealth...

In other words, Communism did not originate from equality idealists, it originated from 'supposed' Capitalists who seek to rule the whole world. (Trotsky left New York with 10,000 U.S.D. to foment the Russian Revolution; record exists of his arrest in Nova Scotia on the way, with $10,000 on his person. He had no job, so where did he get the money?).
 
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ViaCrucis

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Capitalism is the system of free enterprise, not those who seek to steal people's wealth under the guise of equality for all, which is what Communism says they are about, but in reality they are the 'same' as the wealthy who also seek to steal people's wealth...

In other words, Communism did not originate from equality idealists, it originated from 'supposed' Capitalists who seek to rule the whole world. (Trotsky left New York with 10,000 U.S.D. to foment the Russian Revolution; record exists of his arrest in Nova Scotia on the way, with $10,000 on his person. He had no job, so where did he get the money?).

This is what Capitalism looks like:

hine-empty.jpg

ap_120421169620-cropped.jpg

5a096fe7112cc.jpg


And then a teeny, tiny, infinitesimally small number get these:
BN-XS859_WALCRO_H_20180305140742.jpg


-CryptoLutheran
 
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Davy

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The world is at enmity with God, so I suspect every political system will have, in one form or other, laws that make God's laws of no effect. That's why I never claim any political side as "God's side", even the one I prefer (as the lessor of the evils).

Even before Christ was preached to the western nations they were instead involved in all sorts of idol worship. But when Christ was preached to them, they began to put away their idols and believed on Christ Jesus, and then began the history of the traditional western Christian nations, Great Britain being the first nation to accept Jesus on a national scale, even before Rome. At that time the influence of Communism to try and tear all that down did not yet exist. And thus the western Christian nations became blessed.

So those who deny that history have succumbed to the false Revisionist history drummed up by Communist antichrists. Protection of the Christian Church still exists today in the West, the Christian nations haven't been totally taken over just yet. Christ's enemies are trying, but those in Christ still stand in their way today, and should be prepared to make a stand for Jesus Christ instead of cowing down to those antichrists.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Even before Christ was preached to the western nations they were instead involved in all sorts of idol worship. But when Christ was preached to them, they began to put away their idols and believed on Christ Jesus, and then began the history of the traditional western Christian nations, Great Britain being the first nation to accept Jesus on a national scale, even before Rome. At that time the influence of Communism to try and tear all that down did not yet exist. And thus the western Christian nations became blessed.

So those who deny that history have succumbed to the false Revisionist history drummed up by Communist antichrists. Protection of the Christian Church still exists today in the West, the Christian nations haven't been totally taken over just yet. Christ's enemies are trying, but those in Christ still stand in their way today, and should be prepared to make a stand for Jesus Christ instead of cowing down to those antichrists.

The fact that you think Great Britain was the first nation to become Christian, at a time when there was no such thing as Great Britain, and then go on to lambast false revisionist history tells me that you probably don't know much about history.

The first nation to convert to Christianity was Armenia by the way.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Davy

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This is what Capitalism looks like:

hine-empty.jpg

ap_120421169620-cropped.jpg

5a096fe7112cc.jpg


And then a teeny, tiny, infinitesimally small number get these:
BN-XS859_WALCRO_H_20180305140742.jpg


-CryptoLutheran

No, that's actually what Communism looks like.

The only difference with your last photo, is that it looks like this...

Grand-Kremlin-Palace-56a39fe85f9b58b7d0d2d4e4.jpg
 
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ViaCrucis

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No, that's actually what Communism looks like.

The first picture is of child factor workers in the United States before the implementation of child labor laws.

The second picture is of child factory workers in the developing world where there are a lack of such child labor laws to protect them.

The third picture is an African diamond mine.

You don't get to rewrite reality to suit your fantasies. And you don't get to accuse others of revisionism when you flagrantly dismiss reality so flippantly.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Not David

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Capitalism is the system of free enterprise, not those who seek to steal people's wealth under the guise of equality for all, which is what Communism says they are about, but in reality they are the 'same' as the wealthy who also seek to steal people's wealth...

In other words, Communism did not originate from equality idealists, it originated from 'supposed' Capitalists who seek to rule the whole world. (Trotsky left New York with 10,000 U.S.D. to foment the Russian Revolution; record exists of his arrest in Nova Scotia on the way, with $10,000 on his person. He had no job, so where did he get the money?).
To be fair, some parts of Capitalism can be anti-Christian.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No, that's actually what Communism looks like.

The only difference with your last photo, is that it looks like this...

View attachment 297593

What, exactly, is a picture of the Kremlin supposed to say here? I show a picture of a gigantic mansion owned by one of the wealthiest families in the world, and you show a picture of the Kremlin?

Okay, here's the Whitehouse:

about_the_white_house-2360x1180.jpg


There was no point in posting a picture of it, but neither was there any point in you posting a picture of the Kremlin.

If you want to point out the evils of the USSR, you'll get no argument from me. The Stalinist regime was evil. But the evils of Stalinism don't justify the evils of Capitalism.

Just so we're clear, I'm not a Communist, nor a Marxist. I don't have enough faith in human beings behaving themselves well enough for a true implementation of Marxist ideas to work. Marx desired the dissolution of the State, envisioning a Communist utopia where the workers owned the means of production and all things were shared equally. I think much of that is a noble ideal, but also unrealistic.

The evidence for how unrealistic it is can be seen wherever anyone has tried to implement some form of Marxist society, such as with the Bolsheviks.

You can't quench ambition, you can't quench human selfishness, and the thirst for power. There will always be at least some people who want more, to be on top, to have power. And those people will find power if given the opportunity. Where a power vacuum opens, there will be those who will come to fill it.

But to pretend as though Capitalism is any better morally is simply sticking one's head in the sand. The fruits of Capitalism are all around us, as the poor get poorer, the rich get richer, and the least of these suffer under the heavy heel of the wealthy and the powerful.

The Christian should desire what is best for their neighbor, and thus seek what is good and just for our societies and communities. And therefore we should promote justice, love mercy, and walk humbly before our God (Micah 6:8); and that means being on the side of the poor, the hungry, and the oppressed wherever they are.

On that basis, we have seen time and again the failures of Capitalism, the failed attempts at Communism, and the utter inhuman nightmare of Fascism. All within the last century and a half.

So maybe rather than cheerleading such failed economic models as though any of them have been great is a problem. Especially Fascism, that was just in every way the worst of all worlds. So let's set our pom poms down, use our hearts and minds and conscience to prioritize that which we should prioritize in accordance with God's will: That we love our neighbor and seek what is maximally good for him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Davy

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The fact that you think Great Britain was the first nation to become Christian, at a time when there was no such thing as Great Britain, and then go on to lambast false revisionist history tells me that you probably don't know much about history.

The first nation to convert to Christianity was Armenia by the way.

-CryptoLutheran

The Roman Church (and associated denominations like the Lutherrans) disregard the history of the British Culdee Church which dated back to the 1st century A.D.
 
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Davy

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To be fair, some parts of Capitalism can be anti-Christian.

Yes, which I kind of hinted at in one my posts.

True capitalism is about free enterprise, and particularly about 'private ownership'. Communism is just the opposite. Communism is just a 'tool' created by wealthy globalists, some of their heaviest financiers being from the west:

The Rape Of Russia 3: Trotsky’s Secret Benefactors
 
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Dave L

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Yes, which I kind of hinted at in one my posts.

True capitalism is about free enterprise, and particularly about 'private ownership'. Communism is just the opposite. Communism is just a 'tool' created by wealthy globalists, some of their heaviest financiers being from the west:

The Rape Of Russia 3: Trotsky’s Secret Benefactors
Christian Communism says "what's mine is yours". Worldly Communism says "what's yours is mine". Abraham Kuyper.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Roman Church (and associated denominations like the Lutherrans) disregard the history of the British Culdee Church which dated back to the 1st century A.D.

I really don't know how to tell you this, but Britain was Roman until Rome left the island and let the Romano-Britons alone to fend for themselves--at that time the Roman Empire was already Christian.

Britain was just as Christian as Mesopotamia or Egypt. These weren't independent nations of people, these were provinces and regions in larger empires, such as Rome and Parthia.

The Culdees were Christian monks from the middle ages. St. Patrick was a Romano-Briton who was captured by slavers from Ireland where he lived as a slave for a number of years. Escaping to freedom, Patrick returned to Britain, becoming ordained, and then returning to his captors as a missionary. St. Patrick's work in bringing the Gospel to the Irish was very successful, after him many of the converted Irish themselves began to preach the Gospel throughout the rest of the island. So successful was the Irish mission that it was Irish missionary monks who began to preach among the Picts and Scots and Northumbrians. In southern Britain the Anglo-Saxon invasions occurred in the 5th century, in response to this the bishop of Rome sent a man by the name of Augustine to establish an episcopal see in Canterbury.

Saint Patrick - Wikipedia
Columba - Wikipedia
Iona Abbey - Wikipedia
Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain - Wikipedia
Augustine of Canterbury - Wikipedia
Roman Britain - Wikipedia

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes, which I kind of hinted at in one my posts.

True capitalism is about free enterprise, and particularly about 'private ownership'. Communism is just the opposite. Communism is just a 'tool' created by wealthy globalists, some of their heaviest financiers being from the west:

The Rape Of Russia 3: Trotsky’s Secret Benefactors

So your argument is that the evils of Communism should be attributed to Capitalists? I'm not sure that's the argument you were trying to make, but that is the argument you've just made.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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