God demands his own way. This is ALL about HIM.
Mark, have you ever contrasted all the verses about "those who" in terms of personal salvation, and "God who"? In my book there is an appendix that lists forty seven "THOSE WHO" passages, referring to personal salvation. Then a list of "God who", eight passages and they do not place Him as causal to personal salvation. Look at Matt11:28:
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden light."
Come to Me, TAKE My yoke -- why would Jesus say that, if it's God who decides who comes and who does not? Does that make sense to you?
As with your use of the other verses you show, you like to think these negate Calvinism in some way. They do not.
Show me how they do not?
If I wished to I could probably make your point better than you do --my goodness, look at Revelation where names are blotted from the book of life! How is this possible if they were never written in to begin with!
It's not possible.
Moses: "If You will, forgive their sin; if not, please blot me from Your book which You have written." The Lord said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." Ex32:32
Does that sound like "blotting is not possible"? Remember, "he who overcomes I will not blot from My book", is in context with verse 11, "Hold fast to what you have so that no one will steal your crown". What crown are they after, Mark? Are deceivers wasting their time trying to tarnish our shiny rewards in Heaven"? No! Paul says we are at the SAME risk of deception-away-from-Jesus, as Eve experienced in the Garden! 2Cor11:3!
-- but our thoughts must be tempered in reading any single passage with the facts and teachings evident in other passages, and vice-versa.
Agreed; and I would love to discuss the entire letter of Hebrews. The entire letter of James. The entire letter of Galatians. The entire letter of 2Peter.
Remember Peter's words, those in chapter 1 were "apopheugo-escaped corruptions by the epignosis-true-saved-knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus", unquestionably saved; but then in chapter 2 the false teachers and false prophets seek to entice back into sin those who have truly escaped (2Pet2:18); if after having apopheugo-escaped the defilements of the world through the epignosis-true-saved-knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus they are again entangled and overcome, the last state is worse than the first. Better to have never KNOWN (epiginosko, truly known!) the way of righteousness, than having known it (epiginosko!) to have TURNED AWAY FROM IT (epistrepho, true spiritual turning!)
What part of that is negotiable? And don't miss in chapter 1 the man who WAS PURIFIED FROM SINS (could only mean "saved"), but now has FORGOTTEN his purification and LACKS the prescribed godly qualities -- he is the example against whom "therefore be all the more diligent to make your calling and election steadfast; as long as these qualities are yours you will ...not STUMBLE (ptaio-become-wretched!), in THIS way the eisodos-gates of Heaven will BE provided to you!" And 3:17 warns us not to be deceived away from our own steadfastness! Exactly what do you think I'm missing?
Calvinism does not argue that we do not choose --indeed it demands that we MUST choose.
No, generally "Compatibilism" asserts we have NO choice -- we "always
freely choose ONLY according to our hearts -- if sovereignly regenerated we cannot believe and choose ONLY sin" (oops, throw out Lk8:13!) "but if sovereignly monergistically regenerated we ONLY choose to believe and be saved" (throw out 1Cor10:12).
It does not argue that we do not have the choices before us to make --in fact, it says that unless God changes our hearts we WILL NOT choose Christ, and WILL always choose disobedience.
Right there --- now, please cite the verse that places "heart-change BEFORE belief". It's not 2Cor4:3-4, it's not 1Cor2:14, it's not Ezk36:26-27, it's not anywhere!
What about Ezk18:30-31? "Make for YOURSELVES a new heart"! What did he mean?
We cannot neglect passages like Romans 8: "5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
Exactly WHO is Paul talking to when he says, "SET YOUR MINDS on things above, not on earthly things" (Col3) -- and then continues warning, "Lay aside the old self and put on the new self" (identical to Eph4)?
How is it that you don't see a
constant choice, life or death?
6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God."
That's it! Make a choice! And the same choice exists tomorrow, and the next day, and the next and the next!
WALK in Him, ABIDE in Him! It's clear!
2 Peter 1:10 is one of many sometimes used to counter Calvinism, because, after all, if election is sure and accomplished by God without our added effort, certainly it follows that we need not secure it, no? In fact, it goes so far as to say that if we do not secure it, it is not an accomplished fact --we will lose the security THAT WE THOUGHT TO HAVE! But it also shows that it is indeed a sure thing, regardless of how it is so.
Unless you're a Greek expert, let's consult Robertson:
A.T.Robertson on 2Pet1:10
"Wherefore (dio). Because of the exhortation and argument in verses Hebrews 5-9 . Give the more diligence (mallon spoudasate). "Become diligent (first aorist ingressive active imperative of spoudazw as in 2 Timothy 2:15 ; 2 Peter 1:15 ) the more" (mallon, not less). To make (poieisqai). Present middle infinitive of poiew, to make for yourselves. Calling and election (klhsin kai ekloghn). Both words (klhsin, the invitation, ekloghn, actual acceptance). See for eklogh 1 Thessalonians 1:4 ; Romans 9:11 . If ye do (poiounte). Present active circumstantial (conditional) participle of poiew, "doing." Ye shall never stumble (ou mh ptaishte pote). Strong double negative (ou mh pote) with first aorist active subjunctive of ptaiw, old verb to stumble, to fall as in James 2:10 ; James 3:2 .
Robertson is not endorsing "Predestined-Salvation", and that understanding fits with chapter 2, the false teachers & prophets seek to entice the TRULY ESCAPED (KJV "ontos apopheugo", NASB "oligos-apopheugo-barely-escaped"). Is it possible that the
exact same words between chapters one and two (escaped corruptions/defilements through the true-saved-knowledge of Jesus), can have opposite meanings? SAVED in chapter 1 (undeniable--"same faith as ours"!)), but UNSAVED in chapter 2? No.
And thus also it is shown in many passages, that what reason also agrees with concerning God's decrees --that if God predestines a thing, it will indeed come to pass-- it does so by whatever means God uses. If God has chosen one to be with him in Heaven, it will happen!
Okay, now please back that with Scripture. Can you?
Do you suppose that Calvinism's God flash-bangs the high points of fact into existence without the use of lowly weakness?
God has characteristics which He
cannot violate; He cannot be unjust, cannot be unrighteous. He cannot judge men for what He Himself decides and causes. Please see Rom3:26, God is just (righteous!) and His justification responds
to those WHO believe.
Another "Those-who". Please read Rom2:4-11 and tell if you see any "THOSE WHO" clauses? Was Paul missing something?
So the passages you point to do not mean that apart from God we will sometimes submit and sometimes be Elect, and other time fail to be Elect.
Then, conversely, (and certainly more palatably), we are the more definitely not the ones upon whose choice Eternity hinges!
Really -- please tell me how Deut30:19-20 should be rewritten?
What??? Semitic view = anthropomorphism??!! Do you not know that there is a lot more to it than that? It is we, humans --not just Jews-- who do that! Semitic view includes things we don't when it does anthropomorphize. But the Semitic view includes structures we Gentiles don't comprehend even when we study them, and methods of thinking, teaching and learning, and of composition. It includes basic (and unmentioned) to most of its thought such
things as (what we have to make a conception of) individuality within corporeal (national) dealings with God, and with other nations, election as God's chosen nation. And there is much more, but I am already at risk of not getting accomplished what I must in a very short time, and this is running long.
The bottom line is that the verses I referenced, supposedly ascribing to GOD things men do THEMSELVES, stand in that meaning. Jesus Himself answers Jn12:40 and Isaiah6:9, in Matt13:15. I don't see how it is deniable.
It occurs to me to say, though, that this post reminds me of digging bulbs with my wife. I dreaded it, because it was just more of the same and effort and time put into what to me is not worth it, considering the likely results, but once getting into it (and don't tell my wife this) I enjoyed doing it.
I plant bulbs in the dark -- I can see them better.
Thanks for taking your time to answer.
And you -- and thanks for reading THIS looooonnnngggg post...
