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Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

loveofourlord

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You really have no grasp on the details...

Given the things you've said and your understanding of evolution your the one that doesn't. The only two choices are accept evolution is compatible with the bible or reject the bible. Anyone honest that actually understands evolution will know that's the only choices. You've shown you know nothing about evolution.
 
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Religiot

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Didn't know god was a man and that he made fiction....
I didn't know that something so foolish and idiotic as your reply would be posted on this thread, but then again, I don't know everything.
 
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loveofourlord

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I didn't know that something so foolish and idiotic as your reply would be posted on this thread, but then again, I don't know everything.

hey your the one that called god a man that created the fiction evolution, maybe you shouldn't mock reality.
 
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coffee4u

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And god didn't lie, he told what the early people could understand. Again the evidence shows evolution is true, it's either rejct it or reject god. And your why so many reject god when they realize the truth of Evolution.

So God told them he created in 6 days but he didn't really mean it? But he didn't lie, even though he did?

"the evidence shows evolution is true"
What evidence would that be?
 
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MittenMaven

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God-given? What are you talking about?

No Christian, at any point in time, considers God a deceiver: do you not know, that to call God a deceiver disqualifies that person as Christian?

Wow... ...don't you see how you're putting your faith in evolution, and that, directly against God?

Wow--you're really gonna stick to the God-is-a-deceiver bit, aren't you?
Why not present your claims scientifically instead? i.e., why not present them with the citation of a scientist who shares your faith in evolution, and another scientist who doesn't share your faith; and make deductions from such comparisons, like a real scientist would?

Where is the adverse view to your assertion?

In order for your claims to be considered scientific, they must be falsifiable: where is the attempted falsification to your assertion?
.

it is special creationists who make God a deceiver. God doesn’t lie. The evidence for biological evolution is overwhelming and General revelation is Gods way f showing this to those who will. Listen.

look around YouTube. It is a not so uncommon belief that dinosaurs are not real and never existed. They were put in the Ground t “test mans faith in the Bible”. Lol. That’s Christians calling God a deceiver.

im not deceived. I believe in Special and General revelation like the Bible says and using my God given mind.

You pose no solution to my questions. Why would God create the recurrent laryngeal nerve to be on the wrath no side of the heart so it has to follow an inefficient route? Poor design.

Why is the human chromosomes monomer 2 look just like 2 feed ape chromosomes?

Why would God create human embryos with tails and Gill slits?

That’s all scientific evidence. Volumes of scientific evidence. I have read all the major creationist works I have followed Ken Ham for 3O years or so now. I’ve talked with Duane Gish. They cannot answer questions such as I have posed.

I have read volumes on creation science. Time for you to read some evolutionary science.

Start with this book: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0143116649/ref=nodl_
 
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MittenMaven

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So God told them he created in 6 days but he didn't really mean it? But he didn't lie, even though he did?

"the evidence shows evolution is true"
What evidence would that be?
I’ve given multiple examples of evolution. How about the transition from reptile ear bones into mammal ear bones which is well documented in the fossil record. Multiple transitional forms of ape to human with slowly enlarging brain cavities over time. Google is your friend. Massive evidence. Just look it up if you dare.

Where is your scientific evidence that the earth was created 6000 years ago and that all animals on earth appeared in 6 days including dinosaurs etc. you have no evidence.

read the book https://www.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0143116649/ref=nodl_

God lives outside of time. To God 6 days is meaningless. He spoke to the primitive scientific mind of the Israelites in a way they could understand. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is 6 thousand years old. God spoke those words billions of years ago and in His mind it was instantly done because God sees all of the arc of time. God commands by Devine fiat and it occurs. God doesn’t wait for it to occur. We wait because we are stuck in time. God lives outside of time.
 
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Thomas White

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The very terms you are using prove their opposition.

Only if the picture is a man made fiction.

You claim that creation and evolution are opposite terms, but you do not explain how.
 
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coffee4u

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I’ve given multiple examples of evolution. How about the transition from reptile ear bones into mammal ear bones which is well documented in the fossil record. Multiple transitional forms of ape to human with slowly enlarging brain cavities over time. Google is your friend. Massive evidence. Just look it up if you dare.

Where is your scientific evidence that the earth was created 6000 years ago and that all animals on earth appeared in 6 days including dinosaurs etc. you have no evidence.

read the book https://www.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0143116649/ref=nodl_

God lives outside of time. To God 6 days is meaningless. He spoke to the primitive scientific mind of the Israelites in a way they could understand. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is 6 thousand years old. God spoke those words billions of years ago and in His mind it was instantly done because God sees all of the arc of time. God commands by Devine fiat and it occurs. God doesn’t wait for it to occur. We wait because we are stuck in time. God lives outside of time.

I use to be an evolutionist so I won't be buying any books, but I want to know why you believe it so strongly. I have been a creationist for 30 years now. I can certainly explain why I changed if you want me too.

"Multiple transitional forms of ape to human with slowly enlarging brain cavities over time."
Okay lets look at that.
So multiple forms of ape to man, which ones do you use to prove this? Give me a list.

Then since your label says Christian I assume doctrine is important to you as well, how do you reconcile scripture to ape man?

Made in the image of God
Genesis 1:27: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

Where did sin come from if Adam wasn't a real person?
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--


How do you teach and explain those verses with evolution as the base?
 
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Job 33:6

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Thanks for your response, but I don't have any questions save the ones I've asked recently in a previous post to you, and I'll ask them here again.

Your claims are without the opposing view, so they are not here presented as scientific, but merely your statements of faith in some other man's claims of discovery: you must include an opposing view, that endeavors to falsify you claims, otherwise, your claims are nothing more than statements of faith.

Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

An opposing view that could falsify the above position, is quite simple. In fact, the video I keep posting discusses this very concept.

All one would have to do is make a case for the existence of the proverbial Cambrian bunny. Then there would be no logical connection between phylogenetic trees of paleontology and others.

And this would hypothetically be quite easy to do, if evolution were not true. For example, biblical literalists might suggest that fish and birds were created simultaneously, while evolution suggests that birds evolved from reptiles, reptiles from amphibians and amphibians from fish (based on phylogenies made through genome sequencing). So when we look at the fossil succession, if we find fish and birds coming about at the same time, then evolution is wrong. If we find birds coming after reptiles, after amphibians and then after fish, then evolution is right.

So then all any of us has to do is grab a geologic map of the rocks around us, go out and look at fossils in the rocks and observe.

And lo and behold fish appear in rocks first, then amphibians, then reptiles, then birds. And this is readily observable for anyone who cares to look for themselves. There's really nothing faith based about it. Just walk outside and look for yourself. And if you would like help in interpreting geologic maps, I'd be happy to lend a hand.



And dare I say it, your lack of response leads me to believe that perhaps you too have no response to give.


Another opposing view for disproving the above:
Some people suggest that a flood deposited bones And that perhaps some animals could swim better or could run to high ground, and thus some animals drowned and were buried faster than others, thus creating the succession.

If this is true, we might suspect that species that cannot run and cannot swim, such as plants, might have no particular order in the rock record. Without any particular order, the succession would therefore disprove evolution as well.

So then all any of us has to do is grab a geologic map of the rocks around us, go out and look at fossils in the rocks and observe. And if plants are out of order, evolution is in trouble.

Lo and behold, plant fossils are in an order suggested by evolution as well.

Of course plant fossils appear initially as things like mosses and algae, and initially we have non-vascular plants. Then eventually as we look through the rock record we begin finding vascular plants, then eventually seeded plants, then eventually flowering plants.

So, collectively, some finds that would disprove evolution include any paleozoic mammal or bird (for which there are thousands of options, including a Cambrian bunny. The initial appearance of fish anywhere in the cenozoic or Mesozoic would also disprove evolution. The initial appearance of amphibians either in the Cambrian or anywhere in the Mesozoic or cenozoic would also disprove evolution. The initial appearance of invertebrates or arthropods anywhere in the Mesozoic or cenozoic would also disprove evolution. The appearance of any of the above, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, fish or birds, anywhere in the early to mid protozoic would also disprove evolution. Any flowering plants within or prior to the carboniferous would disprove evolution, any seeded plants observed in rocks prior to the ordovician would also disprove evolution. Etc. There are many hypothetical possibilities that could disprove evolution. But none exist.

And again, there's nothing faith based about this. In fact, any of us can go and look for ourselves at any time. All you really need is a geologic map and a pair of sturdy boots. And if you would like help doing this yourself, or if you have any questions on how to do it, feel free to let me know.
 
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Religiot

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hey your the one that called god a man that created the fiction evolution, maybe you shouldn't mock reality.
Like your faith in evolution, your allegation against me is not only false on it's face, but made without providing any evidence.
 
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Religiot

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look around YouTube. It is a not so uncommon belief that dinosaurs are not real and never existed. They were put in the Ground t “test mans faith in the Bible”. Lol. That’s Christians calling God a deceiver.
Your logic is flawed: the claims of some is not equal to the claims of all.
im not deceived. I believe in Special and General revelation like the Bible says and using my God given mind.
Your judgment about yourself is exceedingly prejudicial: you must prove the tenets of your faith by the scientific method, otherwise, your faith would be a blind one.
You pose no solution to my questions. Why would God create the recurrent laryngeal nerve to be on the wrath no side of the heart so it has to follow an inefficient route? Poor design.
Your question is malformed, in that it presupposes that you know what you're talking about, and also, that it presupposes that I would have this knowledge: your faith in the conjectures of men is not scientific, but religious.
Why is the human chromosomes monomer 2 look just like 2 feed ape chromosomes?
Who told you this? and to what extent are they similar? is it just in a superficial appearance? have you yourself made the obeservations? or, are you just espousing someone else's observations? Where is the attempt at falsification? and who attempted the falsification? etc, AD NAUSEAM --the scientific method is not optional.
Why would God create human embryos with tails and Gill slits?
This was debunked ages ago: Kent Hovind does a good job at exposing that Fraud.
That’s all scientific evidence. Volumes of scientific evidence. I have read all the major creationist works I have followed Ken Ham for 3O years or so now. I’ve talked with Duane Gish. They cannot answer questions such as I have posed.
Well, most of those questions were unscientific, thus to desire scientific answers to unscientific questions is unreasonable.
I have read volumes on creation science. Time for you to read some evolutionary science.
I suggest you focus on proving the science you think you know, by the scientific method, and I also suggest that you focus on believing God instead of men.
 
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Religiot

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You claim that creation and evolution are opposite terms, but you do not explain how.
That's the point, sir: you think evolution is how God created the world, which contradicts what God says about how He created the world.
 
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Contenders Edge

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I won't be your eyes for you.

Jesus said that not everyone has eyes to see, nor ears to hear. What did he do when that happened?

Likewise.

I said what I said. Some will see.

grace and peace.


So be it then. Apparently you don't have any valid answers to some very valid questions. At least Jesus had answers to every question and challenge and was able to validate His claims in more ways than one.
 
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Contenders Edge

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No and neither does evolution claim any of that so not sure your point :> This is what I mean by if creationists want to convince us maybe don't make fools of yourselves.

And yet evolutionists claim that man, along with every other living thing, evolved from single-celled organisms and therefore, in a sense, they do claim that birds are descendants of reptiles and that horses are descendants of rodents by way of alleged processes that have neither been observed, documented or repeated whereas the Genesis account of creation was given by Divine revelation unlike the theory or evolution which is a philosophy produced from the imagination of man.
 
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Religiot

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How did God say He created the world?
By His word, viz:

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were *framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." --Hebrews 11:3

2675 katartizo kat-ar-tid'-zo from 2596 and a derivative of 739; to complete thoroughly, i.e. repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust:--fit, frame, mend, (make) perfect(-ly join together), prepare, restore. see GREEK for 2596 see GREEK for 739
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Your faith in another person's faith, is still faith, but faith in man.

--And with respect, I was asking you to tell me, with your words--not refer me to listen to someone else's--your faith in another person's faith doesn't interest me, yet I am still interested in your defense of that faith; so please, feel free to elaborate more, in your words.

Brother Religiot, this is the first time I've ever been told that I have "faith in another person's faith."

Please understand that, as an academically inclined person, and just as would be done in a seminary or at a university, when I affirm my point of view I support it and offer further clarification of it by citing my sources. When I make academic references, and due to my own academic training, this is how I "speak for myself."

Thus, for the sake of understanding and for expediency, I have offered you one single academic reference (among many that I have), and in this case that reference is made to sister (and she is a fellow Christian by the way), April Maskiewicz Cordero, Ph.D.

Her approach to our common Christian faith in the face of the Theory of Evolution is similar to mine, and since she is a biological scientist, she has the qualification to speak on this topic. And so, I am referring her to you. I don't offer her as a source by which to convince you of anything, but rather to simply explain my position. Does this make sense?

Moreover, when you say you want to hear "my defense" of the faith, in the same way that you need to not only refer to the Bible but also go outside of the Bible to explain your own position, I too not only refer to the Bible but go outside of the Bible to explain my own position on our Christian faith.

If you consider yourself Fundamentalist in the faith, that's fine by me. I'm not here to dissuade you from whichever one of several points of view we might hold on either the issue of 'origins' or the interpretation of the Bible. Just keep in mind that both of us, in different articulations, are "Creationists."

Are you understanding what I'm saying, brother Religiot?

Peace!
 
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loveofourlord

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Like your faith in evolution, your allegation against me is not only false on it's face, but made without providing any evidence.

reality is my evidence, go learn about actual evolution and not the lies and made up stuff creationists like to talk about.
 
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loveofourlord

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And yet evolutionists claim that man, along with every other living thing, evolved from single-celled organisms and therefore, in a sense, they do claim that birds are descendants of reptiles and that horses are descendants of rodents by way of alleged processes that have neither been observed, documented or repeated whereas the Genesis account of creation was given by Divine revelation unlike the theory or evolution which is a philosophy produced from the imagination of man.

has creation ever been seen or repeated? Have you gone back in time to be sure that your understanding of the bible is correct? And in science you don't have to repeat the events, just repeat the methods you used to determine the evidence. you can do all the methods used to prove evolution if you were inclined and had the ability to do so.

These processes have been observed and proven, you yourself have is it like 100 mutations that are not from your parents, those mutations accumulate over time to create new changes.

we have the fossils showing the change over time and no fossil contradicts this. We don't see a fossil that doesn't fit the evolutionary chart, some of which have shown up like feathered dinosaurs and such after we figured out the tree of life.

we have genetics, that hasn't contradicted evolution either when you look up ancestry. There might be the occasional small shift like African and north American vultures not being quiet as related as seem. But were not going to find massive issues in genetics. Same with comparative biology.

Funny how anatomy/genetics/fossils and embryo development all fit evolution. Give me one example that doesn't fit, because your calling god a deciever in how those things fit what we already known, many appearing after we had already determined the tree of life.
 
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