The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[prodromos]

People have been translating and retranslating, retranslating the Bible over and over and over - saying this means this, that means that for centuries. Before the King James version was accepted a few hundred years ago, the Bible had been retranslated / rewritten over 41 times. That type of information was written in the index of the older Bibles before the 1970s.
Now here you come, giving another supposedly accurate translation. It is written in scripture "the beginning of" - that is what I put stock in.
These newer translations have just totally changed - the meaning of far too many scriptures.
I used to wonder why God put a warning in Revelation 22:18-19 about anyone adding to or taking from the words written in the book of Prophecy.

My wife is Greek. We lived in Greece for 12 years. Our children were all born in Greece and are native speakers of Greek. Our Church doesn't have a problem with different English translations because we still read and worship in the original Greek.
You have an opportunity to learn from others who have first hand knowledge of some of these things.
Yeshua HaDerek is Jewish and is extremely knowledgable about Hebrew traditions, but you just brushed him off with a strawman argument. You really should humble yourself and accept that maybe you don't know as much as others.

 

[Sheila Davis]

No, the day begins at sunset, but morning is from just before dawn.
Genesis 1:5

God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

thank you I am fully aware of what Genesis chapter one says. I actually have a Hebrew calendar even their years started at a different time than current Roman years. Something steady years of Bible History - whom I have studied over the past 30 years says the Hebrew Day begin at 6 p.m. everything by Charles Pope in 2014 titled How Did People Tell Time In Jesus Days

No, the day begins at sunset, but morning is from just before dawn.
Genesis 1:5

God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

All one needs to do is Google it, if they're really curious about when the Jewish days of the Ancients began and ended. I started to give information -changed my mind - seekers of the truth will seek themselves. I have studied the studies of theologians for the past 30 years concerning the Hebrews and their ways and customs and they said the Hebrew days started at sunset. Not only that their years would different their months were different. To each his own. By the way I am fully aware of what Genesis chapter one says and the majority of the Bible.

 

[Sheila Davis]

My wife is Greek. We lived in Greece for 12 years. Our children were all born in Greece and are native speakers of Greek. Our Church doesn't have a problem with different English translations because we still read and worship in the original Greek.
You have an opportunity to learn from others who have first hand knowledge of some of these things.
Yeshua HaDerek is Jewish and is extremely knowledgable about Hebrew traditions, but you just brushed him off with a strawman argument. You really should humble yourself and accept that maybe you don't know as much as others.

I am really aware that the name Jesus in Hebrew is Yeshua hamashiach and you're telling me I should humble myself to what you say. And I didn't say I knew more than anybody. I believe what many theologians have taught throughout the decades. And I have studied their reports for the past 30 years concerning the Hebrews and their customs and their days years months. I disagree with what you're saying and for you to tell me I need to humble myself. I humble myself to God not to man and for a man to tell me I need to humble myself. HA he's a sinner just like I am and please don't say you haven't sinned. Good By!!!!!

 

[Davy]

It wasn't a main point of mine at all, but go ahead and list the denominations which agree with you on this matter, as opposed to those who reject it.

If you do, you'll see the great imbalance that exists. Right away, we know that none of the following agree with you--Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutheran, and that's a majority right there even before we go further.

That doesn't mean that you aren't entitled to your opinion, and that there is a theoretical chance of it being correct, but if most Christians, including the theologians and Bible scholars associated with almost all the leading denominations disagree with you, that's what you are left with--your opinion. It's not as though *making it plain* to us again and again changes that fact.

You're the one who offered the challenge, so the burden of proof is upon you.

 

[Davy]

No, it is obviously idiom. "On the third day" is literal.

The time reckoning of "three days and three nights" that Lord Jesus said is about His having risen on the "third day". You just want to argue for no reason at all.

 

[Davy]

Then the eyewitnesses were lying or did not know how to count....OR, more likely, YOU are WRONG!

No, just you don't know the Hebrew reckoning, and anyone else who refuses to use the Hebrew reckoning for a day (sunset to sunset) also are rebellious against the Scripture.

 

[Davy]

That is a fourth day resurrection. Which is what I said you were proclaiming. If Jesus was in the tomb probably before sunset during Wednesday, then He must rise sometime late on the Sabbath, according to your reckoning.

Three full days and three full nights means a fourth day resurrection, pure and simple.

Not a 4th day resurrection.

Wednesday before sunset = they rushed to bury Jesus' body before sunset which would begin Thursday.
Thursday sunset to morning, the count starts = 1st night in the tomb
Thursday morning to sunset = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to sunset = 2nd day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to sunset = 3rd day
Sunday, began at sunset Saturday = Jesus rose, and was seen while it was still dark.

The 3 full days and nights involve Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. But the 24 hr. day reckoning is by the Hebrew reckoning of a day from sunset to sunset.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Scripture says at the dawn of the first day. DAWN used there means the beginning of - not morning like the Roman Calendar and now used. (Webster's definition: to appear, to develop, to come forth, to begin to be understood or felt , the beginning of something such as the dawn of the Space Age. As I said ALSO in my initial statement their days begin at 6 p.m. - 6 p.m. to them was morning. Their Sunday / the first day, began Saturday night by the Roman calendar, no matter what stars you say were at play. You seem to be mixing their time & Romans time (which is currently used) together. Early to the Hebrews is late to others - am to the Hebrews is p.m. to others.
You are indeed free to continue your argument I have nothing else to say. And YES IT DOES .....BY

No you are wrong. Dawn as in the morning is what the passage says. You do not understand Judaism either it would seem. 6 pm? The Jewish Sabbath ends when 3 stars can be seen in the sky.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No, just you don't know the Hebrew reckoning, and anyone else who refuses to use the Hebrew reckoning for a day (sunset to sunset) also are rebellious against the Scripture.

I know VERY WELL the Hebrew reckoning. That is how I know you are wrong...and the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus were correct...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Not a 4th day resurrection.

Wednesday before sunset = they rushed to bury Jesus' body before sunset which would begin Thursday.
Thursday sunset to morning, the count starts = 1st night in the tomb
Thursday morning to sunset = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to sunset = 2nd day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to sunset = 3rd day
Sunday, began at sunset Saturday = Jesus rose, and was seen while it was still dark.

The 3 full days and nights involve Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. But the 24 hr. day reckoning is by the Hebrew reckoning of a day from sunset to sunset.

What about the daylight hours on Thursday? Also you are saying 3 nights and 3 days...also, you keep ignoring scripture...the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove your timeline wrong.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

People have been translating and retranslating, retranslating the Bible over and over and over - saying this means this, that means that for centuries. Before the King James version was accepted a few hundred years ago, the Bible had been retranslated / rewritten over 41 times. That type of information was written in the index of the older Bibles before the 1970s.
Now here you come, giving another supposedly accurate translation. It is written in scripture "the beginning of" - that is what I put stock in.
These newer translations have just totally changed - the meaning of far too many scriptures.
I used to wonder why God put a warning in Revelation 22:18-19 about anyone adding to or taking from the words written in the book of Prophecy.

Um, what he posted was the ORIGINAL Greek

 

[klutedavid]

Not a 4th day resurrection.

Wednesday before sunset = they rushed to bury Jesus' body before sunset which would begin Thursday.
Thursday sunset to morning, the count starts = 1st night in the tomb
Thursday morning to sunset = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to sunset = 2nd day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to sunset = 3rd day
Sunday, began at sunset Saturday = Jesus rose, and was seen while it was still dark.

The 3 full days and nights involve Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. But the 24 hr. day reckoning is by the Hebrew reckoning of a day from sunset to sunset.

Firstly, you need to attend to the burial of Jesus. Was Jesus actually buried on the Wednesday or the Thursday?

Then you need to address the resurrection. You have to tell me what you mean when you say

Sunday, began at sunset Saturday = Jesus rose, and was seen while it was still dark.

Did Jesus rise on Saturday or Sunday? If Jesus rose on Sunday then He rose on the fourth day according to your timing. You can't have Jesus in the tomb on the third day and rising on the fourth day. Because the scripture declares Jesus rose on the third day.

 

[prodromos]

The time reckoning of "three days and three nights" that Lord Jesus said is about His having risen on the "third day". You just want to argue for no reason at all.

Then explain on your timeline why the women, who on the eve of His burial immediately began preparing spices, 'forgot' to go to the tomb all day Friday, and waited until Sunday morning when His body would have begun (according to John 11:49) to smell.

 

[Sheila Davis]

No you are wrong. Dawn as in the morning is what the passage says. You do not understand Judaism either it would seem. 6 pm? The Jewish Sabbath ends when 3 stars can be seen in the sky.

I am not wrong - don't appreciate you calling me wrong - so I'll just throw those words right back at you. Now God bless you and all of those who think like you. We are not to debate scripture - besides it's a matter of respect and knowledge of the day he rose - no one is going to hell because they don't believe what others teach concerning the day that he rose. What matters is living a life in a God-like fashion and belief in him.

 

[prodromos]

I am not wrong

Unfortunately you are, and it has been explained why. You haven't given any explanation as to why you are right, only that you have done 30 years of research. I'm 3 years older than you and I've been looking into this just as long as you have.

 

[prodromos]

I am really aware that the name Jesus in Hebrew is Yeshua hamashiach and you're telling me I should humble myself to what you say.

I suspect that you misunderstood me. I was not referring to Jesus' name in Hebrew, I was referring to one of the CF members you have been arguing with on this thread.
@Yeshua HaDerekh is a Jew, and both you and Davy have been claiming that he, a Jew, does not know or understand Jewish customs.

 

[Bro.T]

So you are saying it is really 3 nights and 3 days, not 3 days and 3 nights. Also, apparently no one in the Bible can count except you? The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus say it is you who can't count. Sunday, 3rd day...Sabbath, 2nd day and Friday was when all the events occurred. Even using exclusive counting, Wednesday is impossible...a Thursday crucifixion would be the earliest day.

Lets take at look at Luke 24: 13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. 17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

Now let's skip down because what Jesus is about to say is actually the problem here.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

You are really focusing on the time after Jesus rose, this is your clue to your counr, really! This thread is about Jesus death and resurrection, not what Jesus did afterward. But again Jesus says O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: How do thing I come up with three days and three nights, because it's written by the prophet Daniel. His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week.

Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

Now I know you have to find a problem with this, because you couldn't believe out of Jesus own mouth in Matthew 12: 38-40. Even in St. John 20: 1-4 went Mary Magdalene came unto the sepulcher is was still dark, and Jesus had rose already. And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover or Wed. evening. The passing of the Passover brought in the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. You have to read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation to understand these things.

 

[Bro.T]

You too have the women who were dedicated to Jesus and immediately began preparing spices to annoint His body on the eve of His burial, for no reason at all deciding to waste the opportunity to annoint His body on Friday, and instead waiting until Sunday morning.

I'm not sure what you saying here. but all those things where done as it should be done. The time frame of thing that was done, was done for a reason.

 

[Bro.T]

Jesus was dead at 3pm, taken down and buried, probably before sunset.

You have Jesus rising during the Sabbath day also. That means He rose before sunset and no one saw Him. The guards at the tomb did not notice the stone rolled away!

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

The scripture even mentions that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week.

Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath day!

I use to struggle with that part myself. But you have to keep in mind that Jesus was the Passover, at the day of Passover, and the feast of unleavened bread is the next High Holy Sabbath day. So he had to rise before sundown Saturday. Because the evening would bring in Sunday a High feast day. Remember the next day starts at evening. When Mary came it was still dark. For example Sundown today is around 7:00 p.m. and Morning time is around 6:30 a.m. or so. So that's about 11hrs Jesus been gone. Subtract a couple hrs or hour and it would be still dark, when Mary came.

 

[Bro.T]

"On the third day" out of the mouth of Jesus Himself. Good Friday to Easter Sunday morning, done!

How is that possible it was still dark. Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover.

Where's the Sunday morning? When she came Jesus was gone.