The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[truefiction1]

All that you saying doesn't change the fact that most of the world deal with Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning. This thread is about the true death and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to the Bible. There's no need for anybody to add to the word of God. Pascha (Greek: Πάσχα), also called Easter, is the feast of the Resurrection of the Lord. Pascha is a transliteration of the Greek word, which is itself a transliteration of the Aramaic pascha, from the Hebrew pesach meaning Passover. A minority of English-speaking Orthodox prefer the English word "Pasch."

Easter was named after Eostre (sometimes spelled Eastre), the great Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, fertility, and new life. Similar Teutonic dawn goddesses of fertility were known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos. Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Thus it is easy to see how "Eastre time" became "Easter time".

Easter Sunday falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 20th, the nominal date of the Vernal (sometimes referred to as spring) Equinox. This is the day (or period of days) in spring when the days and nights are of approximately equal length. This is a time of celebrating new life, the resurrection of nature from the dead, and it has typically featured fertility rites, merrymaking, and usually centers on orgiastic sexual activities. In ancient times there were the sacrificing of virgins, the worship of fertility gods and goddesses.

One will not find that its observance is supported by the bible. And that is because, Easter itself is supposed to be a commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus. And Jesus told us to commemorate His death, not His resurrection. Luke (22:19) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

In reading chapter 22 of the Gospel of Luke one will find that Jesus asked this of His disciples during the Passover meal. The Passover is what Jesus asked us to observe to remind ourselves that He died for us not Easter. Jesus asked us to commemorate the Passover. He was not only to die on the Passover, He became our Passove.

Jesus says in (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Three days and three nights, out of the mouth of Jesus himself! Get me that from Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning!

It's a grave error to separate Christ's death and Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14). Neither of these has any saving power without the other. And Pascha is celebration (in contrast to commemoration) of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:3-8). If you believe in your heart that God condemns His servants' and childrens' celebration of His Gospel, you should know this is a grave error as well.

Do you put faith in your take on Scripture and thus, refrain from celebrating the Gospel of Jesus Christ with His brethren? You're not alone... the demons and nonbelievers refrain from celebrating it also. Orthodox Christians celebrate the Gospel of Christ in many, many ways. We'll continue to do so because our sins are the only thing we fear, as these take us away from God. We have nothing to fear from celebrating God's Salvation, regardless of how we choose to celebrate Him.

 

[prodromos]

Three days and three nights, out of the mouth of Jesus himself! Get me that from Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning!

"On the third day" out of the mouth of Jesus Himself. Good Friday to Easter Sunday morning, done!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The three days and three nights is so... easy to figure out:

Wednesday before sunset, they rushed to bury Jesus' body.
Thursday sunset to morning = 1st night
Thursday morning to evening = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to evening = 2 day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to evening = 3rd day
Sunday began at sunset = sometime after sunset Jesus rose, and was seen while it was still dark.

Then the eyewitnesses were lying or did not know how to count....OR, more likely, YOU are WRONG!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I have a three or four part lesson on this at the beginning of this thread, go back and read it all slowly, and see if I ignore scriptures. Its all in there according to the Bible.

It is according to YOUR interpretation, not what the Bible says....the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove you wrong and yet you ignore them.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The timespan He gave is what is literal. His comparison to Jonah being in the whale's belly is a metaphor, but the timespan He gave was not. And if those three days and three nights were not fulfilled exactly, then it is to say that Lord Jesus is a liar. That's what you'd be saying. So you might want to reconsider calling Him a liar if you don't believe His body was in the tomb for a literal period of three days and three nights.

The 3 days and nights were in context and connected to that metaphor...so not literal

 

[klutedavid]

Third day from when? Count back to the start, to the first day then.

I'm not denying Christ's resurrection on the 3rd day you see, for He said three days AND three nights. And He arose sometime Sunday morning.

The three days and three nights are per the Hebrew reckoning for a day, which is sunset to sunset. That is how the Jews reckoned for a 24 hour period at that time.

Wednesday before sunset, rush to bury Jesus' body.
Thursday sunset to morning = 1 night
Thursday morning to evening = 1 day
Friday sunset to morning = 2 nights
Friday morning to evening = 2 days
Saturday sunset to morning = 3 nights
Saturday morning to evening = 3 days
Sunday sunset = sometime after sunset He arose, and in that morning He was seen.

That of course is per the Hebrew reckoning for a day, sunset to sunset. So Saturday sunset began Sunday, and also ended the weekly sabbath.

That is a fourth day resurrection. Which is what I said you were proclaiming. If Jesus was in the tomb probably before sunset during Wednesday, then He must rise sometime late on the Sabbath, according to your reckoning.

Three full days and three full nights means a fourth day resurrection, pure and simple.

 

[klutedavid]

So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

Jesus was dead at 3pm, taken down and buried, probably before sunset.

You have Jesus rising during the Sabbath day also. That means He rose before sunset and no one saw Him. The guards at the tomb did not notice the stone rolled away!

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

The scripture even mentions that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week.

Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath day!

 

[prodromos]

So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

You too have the women who were dedicated to Jesus and immediately began preparing spices to annoint His body on the eve of His burial, for no reason at all deciding to waste the opportunity to annoint His body on Friday, and instead waiting until Sunday morning.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

So you are saying it is really 3 nights and 3 days, not 3 days and 3 nights. Also, apparently no one in the Bible can count except you? The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus say it is you who can't count. Sunday, 3rd day...Sabbath, 2nd day and Friday was when all the events occurred. Even using exclusive counting, Wednesday is impossible...a Thursday crucifixion would be the earliest day.

 

[klutedavid]

There are many Christian organizations and some Christian institutions

I agree ...... Many Christian organizations / institutions have come to the conclusion, after doing their research of scripture and the ways of the ancient Hebrews, Jesus rose on the 7th Day the Sabbath.

It seems the Hebrew days began at 6 p.m. and ended 24 hours later at 6 p.m. unlike the now used Roman's - which begins at 12 a.m.

The Hebrews had several different sabbath celebrations, besides the 7th Day Sabbath. One must know which Sabbath was being referred to when the word Sabbath is used.

Organization such as The Trumpet _ Beyond Today _ Tomorrow's World _Church of The Great God _ The Israel of God _ Biblical Archaeology are some that gives their reasonings in their articles.

It is theorized and you have stated in your comments about Easter - when Constantine became a Christian he and the early Roman church leaders changed the old Roman pagan gods celebration did on the first day, to a Christian celebration of the Resurrection.

Whatever happened, from Friday night on the Roman Calendar to before day Sunday morning is not three days and three nights. Plus if Christ rose on the 7th Day Sabbath -that goes back to Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. And I have to add in The Lost Gospel According to Peter / The Last Gospel of Peter - which is only one incomplete chapter verse 12 says "and at dawn upon the Lord's Day Mary Magdalene, a disciple of the Lord, fearing because of the Jews, since they were burning with wrath, had not done at the Lord's sepulchre the things which women are wont to do for those that die and for those that are beloved by them - she took her friends with her and came to the sepulchre where he was laid. I asked the question what and when is the Lord Day? This gospel was supposedly discovered it 1886, in the Valley of the upper Nile called Akhmim, in a monk's grave. I wonder where is it now?

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

The scripture even mentions that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week.

Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath day!

 

[Sheila Davis]

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

The scripture even mentions that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week.

Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath day!

Matthew 28:21 in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, Came Mary Magdalene and other women.
It says *in the end of the Sabbath* the seventh day was ending - he was already gone when they got there.
It says *it began to Dawn toward the first day* - the first day was almost in - he was already gone when they got there. They got there just before the Sabbath ended and right before the first Day begin. And he rose long before they got there on the Sabbath. The angel came down with earthquakes and tell them that he wasn't there - he has risen.
God gave man free will free to think whatever you choose.

 

[Sheila Davis]

No He did not. He rose on the 1st day of the week, after sunset, not on Shabbat. If it was found in a Monk's grave then he understood the Lord's day as being that 1st day of the week.

Matthew 28:1 in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to Dawn towards the first day of the week, Came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the scepulchre. And behold there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door and set upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: and for fear of him the keeper did shake and became as dead men. And the angel answered and said unto the women, fear not ye: for I know that you see Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

That is saying the two Mary's went to the grave site minutes before the Sabbath ended and minutes before the first Day begin......... Jesus was already gone ------ Jesus rose on the Sabbath. And if it was the exact minute of the dawn of the first day - Jesus was still already gone - which means he rose on the Sabbath.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Matthew 28:1 in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to Dawn towards the first day of the week, Came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the scepulchre. And behold there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door and set upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: and for fear of him the keeper did shake and became as dead men. And the angel answered and said unto the women, fear not ye: for I know that you see Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

That is saying the two Mary's went to the grave site minutes before the Sabbath ended and minutes before the first Day begin......... Jesus was already gone ------ Jesus rose on the Sabbath. And if it was the exact minute of the dawn of the first day - Jesus was still already gone - which means he rose on the Sabbath.

No it doesn't...it says after (opse in Greek) the Sabbath...the Sabbath ends just after sunset on Saturday when 3 stars are seen...anytime after that is considered as Sunday...they came early Sunday morning around dawn and He was gone. So He resurrected sometime during the night on Sunday. The women would not have broken the Sabbath as you suggest.

 

[prodromos]

Matthew 28:21 in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, Came Mary Magdalene and other women.
It says *in the end of the Sabbath* the seventh day was ending - he was already gone when they got there.
It says *it began to Dawn toward the first day* - the first day was almost in - he was already gone when they got there. They got there just before the Sabbath ended and right before the first Day begin. And he rose long before they got there on the Sabbath. The angel came down with earthquakes and tell them that he wasn't there - he has risen.
God gave man free will free to think whatever you choose.

Most English Bibles translate Matthew 28:1 as "After the Sabbath", which is the correct rendering of the text in the context because the Sabbath ended at sunset. Near the dawn, it had already been Sunday for more than 10 hours.

οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθεν μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον​

WIKTIONARY - ΟΨΕ

Adverb
ὀψέ • (opsé)

1. late
2. long after
3. late in the day, in the evening

 

[klutedavid]

Matthew 28:21 in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, Came Mary Magdalene and other women.
It says *in the end of the Sabbath* the seventh day was ending - he was already gone when they got there.
It says *it began to Dawn toward the first day* - the first day was almost in - he was already gone when they got there. They got there just before the Sabbath ended and right before the first Day begin. And he rose long before they got there on the Sabbath. The angel came down with earthquakes and tell them that he wasn't there - he has risen.
God gave man free will free to think whatever you choose.

Dawn is twelve hours after the start of the day in Israel. The new day starts after the sunset of the previous day.

Matthew 28:1
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

In Matthew's account the day of the resurrection is unclear.

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

In Mark's account the day of the resurrection is declared, the first day of the week.

The SDA is contradicting the clear testimony of the scripture.

 

[Sheila Davis]

No it doesn't...it says after (opse in Greek) the Sabbath...the Sabbath ends just after sunset on Saturday when 3 stars are seen...anytime after that is considered as Sunday...they came early Sunday morning around dawn and He was gone. So He resurrected sometime during the night on Sunday. The women would not have broken the Sabbath as you suggest.

Scripture says at the dawn of the first day. DAWN used there means the beginning of - not morning like the Roman Calendar and now used. (Webster's definition: to appear, to develop, to come forth, to begin to be understood or felt , the beginning of something such as the dawn of the Space Age. As I said ALSO in my initial statement their days begin at 6 p.m. - 6 p.m. to them was morning. Their Sunday / the first day, began Saturday night by the Roman calendar, no matter what stars you say were at play. You seem to be mixing their time & Romans time (which is currently used) together. Early to the Hebrews is late to others - am to the Hebrews is p.m. to others.
You are indeed free to continue your argument I have nothing else to say. And YES IT DOES .....BY

 

[prodromos]

Scripture says at the dawn of the first day. DAWN used there means the beginning of - not morning like the Roman Calendar and now used.

οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθεν μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον

The Greek word "epifoskousi" literally means "becoming light". It does not mean "the beginning of".

 

[Sheila Davis]

Dawn is twelve hours after the start of the day in Israel. The new day starts after the sunset of the previous day.

Matthew 28:1
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

In Matthew's account the day of the resurrection is unclear.

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

In Mark's account the day of the resurrection is declared, the first day of the week.

The SDA is contradicting the clear testimony of the scripture.

I thought I wrote all of that in my initial statement about when the Hebrews days begin and when their Days end. I am aware of what Mark, Luke and John says.
John says the first day of the week come is Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark.
Mark says early in the morning the first day of the week, at the rising of the Sun.
Luke says "now upon the first day of the week early in the morning."
For the Hebrews morning begin at 6 p.m. Saturday night by the Roman's calendar. Early in the morning to the Hebrews would be late at night by the Romans calendar.
Mark is the only one that uses at the rising of the Sun. When to the Hebrews/Jews their mornings began at 6pm at night.
Luke and John says it was still dark. As I said and say, you have your beliefs - you believe what you choose - its your right, I believe what I choose as is my right. You can say I'm wrong all you like - I can say the same about you. Nothing lost - nothing gained. Besides that scripture says don't argue over scripture..... OVER AND OUT

 

[prodromos]

For the Hebrews morning begin at 6 p.m.

No, the day begins at sunset, but morning is from just before dawn.
Genesis 1:5

God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

 

[Sheila Davis]

οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθεν μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον

The Greek word "epifoskousi" literally means "becoming light". It does not mean "the beginning of".

People have been translating and retranslating, retranslating the Bible over and over and over - saying this means this, that means that for centuries. Before the King James version was accepted a few hundred years ago, the Bible had been retranslated / rewritten over 41 times. That type of information was written in the index of the older Bibles before the 1970s.
Now here you come, giving another supposedly accurate translation. It is written in scripture "the beginning of" - that is what I put stock in.
These newer translations have just totally changed - the meaning of far too many scriptures.
I used to wonder why God put a warning in Revelation 22:18-19 about anyone adding to or taking from the words written in the book of Prophecy.