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The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

Davy

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It is a figure of speech, an example of synecdoche, otherwise you make Christ's statement that He would rise ON THE THIRD DAY a lie.

The timespan He gave is what is literal. His comparison to Jonah being in the whale's belly is a metaphor, but the timespan He gave was not. And if those three days and three nights were not fulfilled exactly, then it is to say that Lord Jesus is a liar. That's what you'd be saying. So you might want to reconsider calling Him a liar if you don't believe His body was in the tomb for a literal period of three days and three nights.
 
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Davy

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So to summarize...
in the far East 'she' is known as Astarte, then in Greece became known as Aphrodite, then moving further West to Rome, became known as Venus, then moving North West to the Germanic kingdoms, becomes known as Eostre.

Astarte -> Aphrodite -> Venus -> Eostre

Yes! You can clearly see the linguistic, etymological links between the names showing the gradual change moving West over the centuries. It is so obvious, I don't know why people can't see this :doh:

In case you missed the (obvious) sarcasm, the article you linked actually proves that the Easter = Astarte argument is complete bunk.

What it shows is that different peoples in different cultures used different names for the same old pagan style worship from ancient Sumer. Before Christ was preached in Asia Minor and Europe it was the same pagan worship of false gods, under many names, but from the same origins. So your argument that suggests no connection between those pagan styles of worship is what is baseless.
 
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Albion

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The timespan He gave is what is literal. His comparison to Jonah being in the whale's belly is a metaphor, but the timespan He gave was not. And if those three days and three nights were not fulfilled exactly, then it is to say that Lord Jesus is a liar.
Nope. It simply means that the way the days were counted then is not the way we count them today.

Interestingly enough, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday ARE three different days by our reckoning but the critics still won't accept the Bible's account.
 
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Davy

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We know for a fact that Jesus rose on the third day.

Third day from when? Count back to the start, to the first day then.

I'm not denying Christ's resurrection on the 3rd day you see, for He said three days AND three nights. And He arose sometime Sunday morning.

The three days and three nights are per the Hebrew reckoning for a day, which is sunset to sunset. That is how the Jews reckoned for a 24 hour period at that time.

Wednesday before sunset, rush to bury Jesus' body.
Thursday sunset to morning = 1 night
Thursday morning to evening = 1 day
Friday sunset to morning = 2 nights
Friday morning to evening = 2 days
Saturday sunset to morning = 3 nights
Saturday morning to evening = 3 days
Sunday sunset = sometime after sunset He arose, and in that morning He was seen.

That of course is per the Hebrew reckoning for a day, sunset to sunset. So Saturday sunset began Sunday, and also ended the weekly sabbath.
 
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Davy

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I don't need to...you are ignoring scripture and the testimony of eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus.

The three days and three nights is so... easy to figure out:

Wednesday before sunset, they rushed to bury Jesus' body.
Thursday sunset to morning = 1st night
Thursday morning to evening = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to evening = 2 day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to evening = 3rd day
Sunday began at sunset = sometime after sunset Jesus rose, and was seen while it was still dark.
 
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Davy

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It's not necessary for us to change the required 3 days And 3 nights per the prophecy, Davy, because Christ's people didn't count days and nights using the same method and mindset that you're using. But this has already been pointed out and demonstrated using the Scriptures themselves. We're not cheating, were merely using the same method that Christ used for counting 3 days and 3 nights, as opposed to the method that you are attempting to foist upon others, which is an incorrect method.

That one MUST use the Hebrew reckoning for a 24 hour period has been one of my points all along. And now you try to say I'm not using that??? You just make up one LIE after another, don't you, just to keep your traditions of men.

Wednesday just before sunset, they rushed to bury Jesus' body.
Thursday sunset to morning = 1st night
Thursday morning to evening = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to evening = 2nd day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to evening = 3rd day
Sunday sunset to morning = Jesus rose sometime after sunset, and was seen while it was still dark.
 
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Davy

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So according to Bullinger, the women who were devoted to Christ, waited from Wednesday night until Sunday morning to annoint Jesus body, when they had all of Friday available to arrange access to His tomb? Do you find that to be at all credible?
Bullinger states with supreme confidence that "3 days and 3 nights" cannot be idiom, yet he makes no attempt to explain how Christ was therefore lying whe He stated multiple times that He would rise "on the 3rd day". Since Christ does not lie, this fact alone proves his denial of the idiom is in error.

What Bullinger said does not disagree with what Lord Jesus said about rising "after three days". You're trying to put your 'own' words into Bullinger's mouth, which shows you are not to be trusted.
 
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Bro.T

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If Some event happens from noon till the next noon the Jewish people at the time of Christ would've called that two days even though it was a 24 hour period. @Bro.T have you researched what the author intended the reader to understand?

If you go back to the beginning of the thread I post a full lesson, because of the length it's in about three or four parts. Take the time and go back and them all. You will see and read the research.
 
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Davy

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Nope. It simply means that the way the days were counted then is not the way we count them today.

Interestingly enough, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday ARE three different days by our reckoning but the critics still won't accept the Bible's account.

The Hebrew reckoning from sunset to sunset for a 24 hr. period must be used for the count. I've made that plain enough in my posts.
 
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Albion

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The Hebrew reckoning from sunset to sunset for a 24 hr. period must be used for the count. I've made that plain enough in my posts.
Well, all that does is inform us that you put yourself in the company of a small minority of Christians when it comes to this issue. We got that point many posts back, however.
 
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Bro.T

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Any part of the 24 hr day, beginning with Saturday evening, equals the whole day, whether it was still dark in the morning or not, and so it's of no importance. If you knew anything about Orthodox Christian Pascha, you would know that we are in Church celebrating it with Divine Liturgy just after midnight following Holy Saturday and beginning Sunday, when it is still dark outside and we are feasting usually before 3 AM on things we have not eaten for over 40 days and nights preceding Holy Week. For us it is the 3rd day, and "Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death". It is a feast that is prepared for by prayer and fasting and meditation upon Holy Scripture and the lives of the saints, beginning almost 60 days in advance. Evil pagans who don't know Christ do not do such things. Only those who are taught by Christ and strive to keep His commandments do such things. There is nothing contrary to the righteousness of God within Orthodox Christian doctrine and practice, and so we cannot be affected by any nonsensical claims of worshipping falsely.

All that you saying doesn't change the fact that most of the world deal with Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning. This thread is about the true death and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to the Bible. There's no need for anybody to add to the word of God. Pascha (Greek: Πάσχα), also called Easter, is the feast of the Resurrection of the Lord. Pascha is a transliteration of the Greek word, which is itself a transliteration of the Aramaic pascha, from the Hebrew pesach meaning Passover. A minority of English-speaking Orthodox prefer the English word "Pasch."

Easter was named after Eostre (sometimes spelled Eastre), the great Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, fertility, and new life. Similar Teutonic dawn goddesses of fertility were known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos. Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Thus it is easy to see how "Eastre time" became "Easter time".

Easter Sunday falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 20th, the nominal date of the Vernal (sometimes referred to as spring) Equinox. This is the day (or period of days) in spring when the days and nights are of approximately equal length. This is a time of celebrating new life, the resurrection of nature from the dead, and it has typically featured fertility rites, merrymaking, and usually centers on orgiastic sexual activities. In ancient times there were the sacrificing of virgins, the worship of fertility gods and goddesses.

One will not find that its observance is supported by the bible. And that is because, Easter itself is supposed to be a commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus. And Jesus told us to commemorate His death, not His resurrection. Luke (22:19) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

In reading chapter 22 of the Gospel of Luke one will find that Jesus asked this of His disciples during the Passover meal. The Passover is what Jesus asked us to observe to remind ourselves that He died for us not Easter. Jesus asked us to commemorate the Passover. He was not only to die on the Passover, He became our Passove.

Jesus says in (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Three days and three nights, out of the mouth of Jesus himself! Get me that from Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning!
 
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Davy

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Well, all that does is inform us that you put yourself in the company of a small minority of Christians when it comes to this issue. We got that point many posts back, however.

And it will remain the main point, and your insinuation that only a small minority of Christians understand this is silly and you're not able to prove.

Such statements like, "many agree, or disagree', always means the majority are correct, right? LOL!
 
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Bro.T

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So are you saying that Jesus did not rise on the third day? Since He was in the tomb during the entire third day and third night.

So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.
 
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Bro.T

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and yet you ignore all other scriptures

I have a three or four part lesson on this at the beginning of this thread, go back and read it all slowly, and see if I ignore scriptures. Its all in there according to the Bible.
 
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Albion

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And it will remain the main point, and your insinuation that only a small minority of Christians understand this is silly and you're not able to prove.
It wasn't a main point of mine at all, but go ahead and list the denominations which agree with you on this matter, as opposed to those who reject it.

If you do, you'll see the great imbalance that exists. Right away, we know that none of the following agree with you--Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutheran, and that's a majority right there even before we go further.

That doesn't mean that you aren't entitled to your opinion, and that there is a theoretical chance of it being correct, but if most Christians, including the theologians and Bible scholars associated with almost all the leading denominations disagree with you, that's what you are left with--your opinion. It's not as though *making it plain* to us again and again changes that fact.
 
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Bro.T

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you mean you're sabbath agenda?

No not mine. Whether you observe the Sabbath or not is between you and God, not me. Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world (Easter, Christmas, etc...). You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? All that extra celebration that has nothing to do with Christ according to the Bible, is not going to profited you in the kingdom of God.
 
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DamianWarS

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you must not get caught up in the cares of this world (Easter, Christmas, etc...)
there is certainly a worldly celebration for Easter, Christmas, etc... but there is also a faith celebration. Celebration itself is not evil, there are many Jewish celebrations mentioned in the bible where I'm quite certain people looked forward to the festivities over the deeper meanings. The pagan focus of various holidays are long stripped of their meaning and if you have such disdain toward them I take you to refuse to use the names of the week as well that are all after pagan gods. Because the moment I say "thor's day" I must be implicitly bowing down to the god of thunder.

Enjoying the superficial aspects of life is not innately evil after all Christ is the Word of God incarnate. For Christ to be flesh means he experienced the superficials of the flesh. For example, Christ had to drink, he had to eat and defecate all very superficial and even arguably too demining for God to participate in, yet he did. To suggest that Jesus did not participate in various festivities and celebrations of daily life, be it special days of celebrations or the joys that you can experience day-to-day (on an emotional level too) is borderline docetic theology.

I'm not sure what exactly you are promoting. that we shouldn't have festivities during these days or that we shouldn't have any festivities at all because they are too corrupted from pagan creep? What about thanksgiving are we allowed to do that because it's not overtly faith focus? What about births, weddings or funerals? what parts of life are you barring from celebration because you think they are too worldly-focused? This focus risks estranging the gospel from others around you because you're too weird to approach or take seriously. You turn into that crazy neighbour who rants on about it being sinful to celebrate Christmas. Life is not about the superficial but when we reject the superficial from being able to enter the holy, or the holy being able to enter the superficial, we alienate the gospel from others distancing it from participating in daily life. Such a focus would be counter-gospel and counter incarnation.
 
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prodromos

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What Bullinger said does not disagree with what Lord Jesus said about rising "after three days".
But not with "On the third day". Bullinger fails. You fail.
You're trying to put your 'own' words into Bullinger's mouth
:scratch:
which shows you are not to be trusted.
You avoided explaining why the women avoided anointing Christ's body on Friday, when according to your reckoning they had every opportunity to do so. You have no argument, thus you engage in ad hominem attacks
 
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That one MUST use the Hebrew reckoning for a 24 hour period has been one of my points all along. And now you try to say I'm not using that??? You just make up one LIE after another, don't you, just to keep your traditions of men.

Wednesday just before sunset, they rushed to bury Jesus' body.
Thursday sunset to morning = 1st night
Thursday morning to evening = 1st day
Friday sunset to morning = 2nd night
Friday morning to evening = 2nd day
Saturday sunset to morning = 3rd night
Saturday morning to evening = 3rd day
Sunday sunset to morning = Jesus rose sometime after sunset, and was seen while it was still dark.
In the ancient Hebrew reckoning, your man-made tradition doesn't work, because Wednesday would include Tuesday evening.
 
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