You observe days and months and seasons and years

[Mr. M]

Who said it was?

The only thing that is obvious is that you are seeing what you want to see.
It is a letter to many churches of Jew and gentile, abiding in the region of Galatia. The gentiles
were not former pagans. They were already converts to Judaism. Are you unfamiliar with
Jewish evangelism at the time? Read the book of Acts. Paul preached in synagogues throughout
the region, some of the Jews accepted Christ, even more of the gentiles.
Acts 14:
1 Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and
so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed.
2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brethren.
3 Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness
to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
4 But the multitude of the city was divided: part sided with the Jews, and part with the apostles.
5 And when a violent attempt was made by both the Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers,
to abuse and stone them,
6 they became aware of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the
surrounding region.
7 And they were preaching the gospel there.

Hi @BobRyan, Here's one you ignored.

 

[Mr. M]

Who said it was?

The only thing that is obvious is that you are seeing what you want to see.
It is a letter to many churches of Jew and gentile, abiding in the region of Galatia. The gentiles
were not former pagans. They were already converts to Judaism. Are you unfamiliar with
Jewish evangelism at the time? Read the book of Acts. Paul preached in synagogues throughout
the region, some of the Jews accepted Christ, even more of the gentiles.
Acts 14:
1 Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and
so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed.
2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brethren.
3 Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness
to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
4 But the multitude of the city was divided: part sided with the Jews, and part with the apostles.
5 And when a violent attempt was made by both the Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers,
to abuse and stone them,
6 they became aware of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the
surrounding region.
7 And they were preaching the gospel there.

Hi @BobRyan, here is another post that included a passage from Acts that illustrates
what was happening in Asia Minor with Paul's mission. Alas, you ignored this post also.

 

[Mr. M]

No doubt. Guess what! There were some in Judea who engaged in idolatry. The point I
have been trying to make is that Judaism was not new to the region.
So now you are quoting from Corinthians, so let's go there.
Acts 18:
1 After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth.
2 And he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently come from Italy
with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome);
and he came to them.
3 So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation
they were tentmakers.
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded
both Jews and Greeks.

One thing Paul and other apostles did not do is go to a place of savages like Christian
missionaries and preach to headhunters. The Greeks were the most sophisticated, and
well-educated people in the world. Many studied the scriptures, and why wouldn't they?
They were available in Greek for a reason.

Hi @BobRyan, here is another informative post that included another passage from
Acts to help illustrate further.

 

[Mr. M]

Turns out - according to Paul - some of them were and apparently this includes some of them in the gentile church of Galatia.

proof:

1 Cor 8
4 Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However, not all people have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Now food will not bring us close to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9 But take care that this freedom of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone sees you, the one who has knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will his conscience, if he is weak, not be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? 11 For through your knowledge the one who is weak is ruined, the brother or sister for whose sake Christ died. 12 And so, by sinning against the brothers and sisters and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to sin.

To reiterate, this quote from 1 Cor 8 in reference to idols is moot to the topic. Provides no proof to what Paul is discussing in Galatians 4. Just another off-topic redirect on your part.
Since you use posts like this to clutter up a thread, and create a smokescreen, I may as well play along
and respond more directly.

 

[BobRyan]

Nothing to do with: 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

Until you read post #3... #3

 

[Mr. M]

Gal 4 is not a sermon in a pagan temple - it is a letter to a gentile church composed of former pagans.. obviously.[/QUOTE]
Not according to Truth, or your commentator Adam Clarke
Another false statement. If you don't get it yet you may not ever. You are contradicting yourself here.

Bible details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi @BobRyan, here is another informative post that included another passage from
Acts to help illustrate further.

your point that there were gentiles - god-fearing saved gentiles that went to the synagogues (so not pagan at all) is already accepted. That is not what Paul is condemning. In fact in Acts 13 he approves them in that state!!


Acts 13
15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,

“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: 17 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, ...23 From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,...

26 “Brothers, sons of Abraham’s family, and those among you who fear God, to us the message of this salvation has been sent

Just as we see in Acts 10
Now there was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and made many charitable contributions to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, “Cornelius!” 4 And he looked at him intently and became terrified, and said, “What is it, lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and charitable gifts have ascended as a memorial offering before God.

Hi @BobRyan, Here's one you ignored.

Your reference to Acts 18:4 where "every Sabbath" Paul is preaching on Sabbath to both gentiles and Jews - creates a problem for your view (even in Acts 14) because the text says some of them were fully accepting the Gospel - and yet continue to come back Sabbath after Sabbath (every Sabbath) for more Gospel preaching. The very thing you appear to want to re-cast as a return to paganism.

Your argument does not survive that detail that you bring out in your own post.

 

[Mr. M]

Until you read post #3... #3

Read it,

Paul condemns those gentile converts who used to worship idols / false gods and who then "turn again" -- as converted Christians "turn again" (return) to those pagan weak and beggerly elements of their former life - a mix of paganism with Christianity as can be seen by the fact that even while observing the pagan days they are still reading this letter of Paul addressed to them.

Completely unsupported by the narrative or your commentaries for that matter.

 

[BobRyan]

To reiterate, this quote from 1 Cor 8 in reference to idols is moot to the topic.

Not true at all since it contrasts the classic Jewish view of God vs the pagan one and instead of saying "hey there are more or less the same" as you propose - Paul argues that he STILL identifies with that classic Jewish view.

Your argument does not survive that detail.

 

[BobRyan]

Nothing to do with: 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

Until you read post #3... #3

Read it,

So will a lot of unbiased objective readers...

 

[Mr. M]

Your reference to Acts 18:4 where "every day" Paul is preaching on Sabbath to both gentiles and Jews - creates a problem for your view because the text says some of them were fully accepting the Gospel - and yet continue to come back Sabbath after Sabbath (every Sabbath) for more Gospel preaching. The very thing you appear to want to re-cast as a return to paganism.

What? I made no such assertion! You are insisting that v. 10 implies a return to paganism. I made
no such statement. Yes, he starts out preaching in the synagogue, until he doesn't! Do some reading
before you talk.
6 But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them,
Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.
7 And he departed from there and entered the house of a certain man named Justus,
one who worshiped God, whose house was next door to the synagogue.
8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household.
And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Mark 7:6-13
"commandment of God" = "Moses said" = "Word of God" according to Christ

Matt 19 - "keep the commandments" said Christ.
"which ones" Christ is asked
And he lists from the TEN

Same list given by Paul in Rom 13 after the cross - as was the case before the cross.

Eph 6:1-2 the fifth commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" in that unit of Ten still binding on all mankind and still included in that law written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah and his readers - Jer 31:31-34 and unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12

These verses have nothing to do with the false narrative you promoted concerning Gal chapter 4.

Hint: that IS me posting - it has everything to with what I am posting here.
Hint: there is NO false narrative about the gospel in my posts.

 

[BobRyan]

What? I made no such assertion! You are insisting that v. 10 implies a return to paganism. .

Those who read post #3 of this thread will see it is not just me pointing that out - it is also major Bible scholars who don't even take my view of the Sabbath.

details matter.

 

[Mr. M]

Not true at all since it contrasts the classic Jewish view of God vs the pagan one and instead of saying "hey there are more or less the same" as you propose - Paul argues that he STILL identifies with that classic Jewish view.

Your argument does not survive that detail.

Not a detail. Nothing required for survival. More smoke and mirrors.
To equate idolatry to paganism is patently false. Idolatry is covetousness, and
many monotheistic Christians struggle with such today, in spite of exhortations to avoid.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Not true at all since it contrasts the classic Jewish view of God vs the pagan one and instead of saying "hey there are more or less the same" as you propose - Paul argues that he STILL identifies with that classic Jewish view.

Your argument does not survive that detail.

Not a detail. .

As I said before - I think you have run out of answers - and we have exhausted the points on page 1.

 

[Mr. M]

Those who read post #3 of this thread will see it is not just me pointing that out - it is also major Bible scholars who don't even take my view of the Sabbath.

details matter.

Already have shown that your commentators do not support your position. You are ignoring details,
so how is it you claim that they matter so much?

 

[Mr. M]

In fact in Acts 13 he approves them in that state!!

Is that a quote from scripture? I am not going to read chapter 13 to try and figure out your point.
Seems more like another redirect.

 

[BobRyan]

Is that a quote from scripture? I am not going to read chapter 13 to try and figure out your point.
Seems more like another redirect.

You are making this too easy..

Hi @BobRyan, here is another informative post that included another passage from
Acts to help illustrate further.

your point that there were gentiles - god-fearing saved gentiles that went to the synagogues (so not pagan at all) is already accepted. That is not what Paul is condemning. In fact in Acts 13 he approves them in that state!!


Acts 13
15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,

“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: 17 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, ...23 From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,...

26 “Brothers, sons of Abraham’s family, and those among you who fear God, to us the message of this salvation has been sent

Just as we see in Acts 10
Now there was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and made many charitable contributions to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, “Cornelius!” 4 And he looked at him intently and became terrified, and said, “What is it, lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and charitable gifts have ascended as a memorial offering before God.

Hi @BobRyan, Here's one you ignored.

Your reference to Acts 18:4 where "every Sabbath" Paul is preaching on Sabbath to both gentiles and Jews - creates a problem for your view (even in Acts 14) because the text says some of them were fully accepting the Gospel - and yet continue to come back Sabbath after Sabbath (every Sabbath) for more Gospel preaching. The very thing you appear to want to re-cast as a return to paganism.

Your argument does not survive that detail that you bring out in your own post.

.

 

[BobRyan]

Already have shown that your commentators do not support your position.

in real life? where?

hmm...

Adam Clarke Commentary on Gal 4:8
"When ye knew not God - Though it is evident, from the complexion of the whole of this epistle, that the great body of the Christians in the Churches of Galatia were converts from among the Jews or proselytes to Judaism; yet from this verse it appears that there were some who had been converted from heathenism;"

Yep - and that is not what is being condemned by Paul as was just noted in post #3

... details matter.

 

[Mr. M]

You are making this too easy..

That's what I do.