You observe days and months and seasons and years

[BobRyan]

I am not blaming you, nor am I looking for answers from you or your preferred commentaries,

I see - so it was already shown that you had the wrong view of Gal 4:8 as those commentaries note in this post...

You are interpreting that as returning to pagan practices,

As do the Bible commentaries - because context matters and the details in the text point to it.

as already noted here - the answer already given

amen!

Indeed!
NIV - "8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods."

God never condemns his own Word as "paganism" or the worship of false gods... rather He condemns paganism as the worship of false gods.

A not-so-subtle detail I think we all see.


Adam Clarke Commentary on Gal 4:8
"When ye knew not God - Though it is evident, from the complexion of the whole of this epistle, that the great body of the Christians in the Churches of Galatia were converts from among the Jews or proselytes to Judaism; yet from this verse it appears that there were some who had been converted from heathenism;"

Ellicott’s Commentary Gal 4:8
(8) Them which by nature are no gods.—The gods of the heathen are called by St. Paul “devils.” (See 1 Corinthians 10:20 : “The things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to devils, and not to God.”)

Matthew Henry Gal 4:8
The happy change whereby the Galatians were turned from idols to the living God


Robertson’s Word Pictures of the New Testament: Gal 4:8
To them which by nature are not gods (τοις πυσει μη ουσι τεοις — tois phusei mē ousi theois). In 1 Corinthians 10:20 he terms them “demons,” the “so-called gods” (1 Corinthians 8:5), worshipping images made by hands (Acts 17:29).

none of which I study.

ok. so that shows. I must admit.

Paul condemns them for "turning back again" to their former paganism - and the Bible does not refer to the OT as "paganism" in fact 1 Cor 8 affirms the monotheistic teaching of the OT where in Heb 3 Paul quotes the OT with the phrase "the Holy Spirit says"... far from referring to it as "weak and beggerly"

I have not ignored any of your posts. If you thought I was going to click
on links and read commentaries for your sake, you were incorrect.

hint: I did not give you links to go to some commentary - I quoted it "for you" -- I was just asking you to 'read'.

Every time I gave you a #' link it was to my own post on this same discussion thread -- so what you are "not reading" is the same thread.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Not according to Paul in Rom 3:19-20. Paul says those "under the Law" are "all the world" and "every mouth" -- all accountable to God for "All have sinned" Rom 3:23

You have twisted the scripture to agree with your position. That is unfortunate ,as you miss the deeper meaning of Paul's message. I will leave you. Thank you for engaging.
Be blessed.

 

[BobRyan]

You have twisted the scripture to agree with your position.

No I have not.. The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to your strong objection to it.

 

[Mr. M]

I see - so it was already shown that you had the wrong view of Gal 4:8 as those commentaries note in this post...

The commentaries on verse 8? I have tried to get you to comment on verse 10 all afternoon.
10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
How is this a description of paganism?
The OP was based on Galatians 4:1-11. Your whole position is based on one verse.
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

I did comment on this one verse and I will do so one more time.
They previously served by nature those which were not gods. check
They did not know the living God. check.
They now know God and are known by Him verse 9 check. Because they are born again.
They are now returning to weak and beggarly elements. check. No accusation that
they have returned to paganism, just unnecessary practices, which are:
10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
If you can prove verse 10 is a reference to paganism, you have not shown it, or that
it is easily a reference to keeping the Law of Moses, which Paul says is unnecessary,
and a move in the wrong direction.

 

[BrotherJJ]

No doubt that skipping over vs 8-11 avoids the problem of newly converted pagans returning to paganism Again skipping right over the Gal 4:8-11 issue of former-pagans returning again to some pagan practices.

I hightlighted your flawed narrative. I ask you, how can you skip the verses I hightlighted?

Parsing Gal verses 7-11

7 Therefore you are no longer a slave (bond-servant), but a son; and if a son, then also an heir through [the gracious act of] God [through Christ].
(MY PARSING NOTE: Because you've been Redeemed from being a servant/slave to the penalities exacted via breaking Mosaic law. You are NOW (time sensitive word) an heir thru Faith in Christ)

8 But at that time, when you did not know [the true] God and were unacquainted with Him, you [Gentiles] were slaves to those [pagan] things which by [their very] nature were not and could not be gods at all.
(MY PARSING NOTE: At that TIME (BACK BEFOFE) you were heirs. BACK BEFORE (you knew God's Son) WHEN you were slaves/in bondage to all sorts of pagen god worship)

9 Now, however, since you have come to know [the true] God [through personal experience], or rather to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and worthless elemental principles [of religions and philosophies], to which you want to be enslaved all over again?
(MY PARSING NOTE: NOW! that you have met/know God's Son. Why are you TURNING BACK to worthless pagan religious philosophies/SEE NEXT VERSE)

10 [For example,] you observe [particular] days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored [to the point of exhaustion] over you in vain.
(MY PARSING NOTE: You observe particular days, months, seasons & years.)

11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored [to the point of exhaustion] over you in vain.
(MY PARSING NOTE: The Holy Spirit inspired apostle say's he FEARS their observance of particular days, months, seasons & years.)

Paul's entire epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel - doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defense of: The Post-Cross gospel - doctrine of faith.

The epistles core message is: We are Justified = Judicially declared righteous by a sovereign creator God. Through Faith placed in the finished sin atoning work found in: Jesus death, burial & resurrection. Not in our own good works or law keeping.

The Mosaic law exposes, condemns & declares men guilty of sin. Mans blessings come from the redemption based on faith in God & in His Son. Best wishes JJ

 

[BobRyan]

The commentaries on verse 8? I have tried to get you to comment on verse 10 all afternoon.
10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
How is this a description of paganism?

look at 8-11... it is pagan days "in that context" with vs 8 which IS its context.

Context matters.

The OP was based on Galatians 4:1-11.

Your whole position is based on one verse.
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

"Them/Those which by nature are not gods" -- the details did not help your case at that point

A not-so-subtle detail I think we all see.


Adam Clarke Commentary on Gal 4:8
"When ye knew not God - Though it is evident, from the complexion of the whole of this epistle, that the great body of the Christians in the Churches of Galatia were converts from among the Jews or proselytes to Judaism; yet from this verse it appears that there were some who had been converted from heathenism;"

Ellicott’s Commentary Gal 4:8
(8) Them which by nature are no gods.—The gods of the heathen are called by St. Paul “devils.” (See 1 Corinthians 10:20 : “The things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to devils, and not to God.”)

Matthew Henry Gal 4:8
The happy change whereby the Galatians were turned from idols to the living God


Robertson’s Word Pictures of the New Testament: Gal 4:8
To them which by nature are not gods (τοις πυσει μη ουσι τεοις — tois phusei mē ousi theois). In 1 Corinthians 10:20 he terms them “demons,” the “so-called gods” (1 Corinthians 8:5), worshipping images made by hands (Acts 17:29).


======================

Nothing there about "the days of the OT text are demons or the complaint that the days listed in Lev 23 --are not gods--"

So it is very easy to see that the false gods of the pagans are in fact "not gods at all" as Paul points out.. those images those false gods as Robertson points out from 1Cor 10 are "demons"

 

[Mr. M]

"Them/Those which by nature are not gods" -- the details did not help your case at that point

A not-so-subtle detail I think we all see.

They previously served by nature those which were not gods. check
They did not know the living God. check.
They now know God and are known by Him verse 9 check. Because they are born again.
They are now returning to weak and beggarly elements. check. No accusation that
they have returned to paganism, just unnecessary practices, which are:
10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
If you can prove verse 10 is a reference to paganism, you have not shown it, or that
it is easily a reference to keeping the Law of Moses, which Paul says is unnecessary,
and a move in the wrong direction.

 

[BobRyan]

I hightlighted your flawed narrative

Where? I don't see anything highlighted by you.

. I ask you, how can you skip the verses I hightlighted?

I repeatedly pointed out that your verses skip the details I point out about vs 8-11... you just keep skimming past vs 8-11

Parsing Gal verses 7-11

7 Therefore you are no longer a slave (bond-servant), but a son; and if a son, then also an heir through [the gracious act of] God [through Christ].
(MY PARSING NOTE: Because you've been Redeemed from being a servant/slave to the penalities exacted via breaking Mosaic law. You are NOW (time sensitive word) an heir thru Faith in Christ)

Pagans were never under a penalty for not keeping Passover - in fact they would be under a penalty in the Mosaic law if they tried to keep it as pagans.

Bible details matter.

8 But at that time, when you did not know [the true] God and were unacquainted with Him, you [Gentiles] were slaves to those [pagan] things which by [their very] nature were not and could not be gods at all.

In fact are idols, false gods, demons as Robertson points out. Already noted here.

(MY PARSING NOTE: At that TIME (BACK BEFOFE) you were heirs. BACK BEFORE (you knew God's Son) WHEN you were slaves/in bondage to all sorts of pagen god worship)

We all have already agreed to that part. The difference came in with vs 8-11

9 Now, however, since you have come to know [the true] God [through personal experience], or rather to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and worthless elemental principles [of religions and philosophies], to which you want to be enslaved all over again?
(MY PARSING NOTE: NOW! that you have met/know God's Son. Why are you TURNING BACK to worthless pagan religious philosophies/SEE NEXT VERSE)

Yes they were turning back again to their former pagan practices - this is where the commentaries and I are making the same point. Hmm apparently you are making my same point as well.

10 [For example,] you observe [particular] days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored [to the point of exhaustion] over you in vain.
(MY PARSING NOTE: You observe particular days, months, seasons & years.)

Indeed - Paul is condemning the observance of even one pagan day by these former pagans now turned Christian. And by contrast in Rom 14 ALL the days are approved of for observing that are the approved list of Bible holy days in Lev 23.

This has been my point all along.

11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored [to the point of exhaustion] over you in vain.
(MY PARSING NOTE: The Holy Spirit inspired apostle say's he FEARS their observance of particular days, months, seasons & years.)

Indeed - observing even one of those pagan days is condemned to the point that Paul fears it would cancel out their entire Christian experience. (my point from page one here ).

By contrast ALL the days being observed in Rom 14 are defended and not even to be questioned.

Paul's entire epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel - doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defense of: The Post-Cross gospel - doctrine of faith.

Not according to Gal 1:6-9 where we are told that there is only ONE Gospel and that Gal 3:8 IT was preached to Abraham.

There is no "pre-cross gospel" vs "post cross gospel" in this at all.

Heb 4:2 The "Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"
1 Cor 10 "They all drank from the same Spiritual Rock.. and that Rock was Christ"
John 8 "Abraham rejoiced to see MY day - he saw it and was glad".

ONE Gospel - in all ages. not two. --

So then BEFORE the cross -- Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in glory Matt 17 -- saved by grace through faith.

 

[BobRyan]

The Mosaic law exposes, condemns & declares men guilty of sin. Mans blessings come from the redemption based on faith in God & in His Son. Best wishes JJ

Mark 7:6-13
"commandment of God" = "Moses said" = "Word of God" according to Christ

Matt 19 - "keep the commandments" said Christ.
"which ones" Christ is asked
And he lists from the TEN

Same list given by Paul in Rom 13 after the cross - as was the case before the cross.

Eph 6:1-2 the fifth commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" in that unit of Ten still binding on all mankind and still included in that law written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah and his readers - Jer 31:31-34 and unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12

 

[Mr. M]

To them which by nature are not gods (τοις πυσει μη ουσι τεοις — tois phusei mē ousi theois). In 1 Corinthians 10:20 he terms them “demons,” the “so-called gods” (1 Corinthians 8:5), worshipping images made by hands (Acts 17:29).

This describes what they may have been doing before they were born again. It does nothing
to prove how they were regressing. Does he say "you are returning to serving other gods, or devils".
No. He says, you are observing days etc......there is no connection to sacrificing to demons. You
are not only going out of context for chapter 4 of Galatians, but outside the context of the entire
letter and the purpose for which it was written. The churches in that region were under tremendous
pressure from false teachers that they needed to be circumcised and keep the whole Law of Moses.
It is not a teaching on pagan sacrifices or idolatry, such as Romans 14, and the Corinthian letters.
The pressure was coming from Judaism. Starting in chapter 2, his clear intent is that they do not
need to participate in these requirements of the Law. Culminating, as I already mentioned, with
his rejection of their needing circumcision in chapter 5. You are so totally out of context that you fail to see again, that your entire argument centers around his mention of their previous practices before
conversion in 4:8, that you have to keep leaving his letter to the Galatians and look at
other portions of epistles that are not dealing with the same issue. Not even a good try.
You have pushed your position to extreme redundancy and forced me to repeat myself 3X over
while never making any direct reply. Passages from Acts that elaborate on what was going on
at the time. Ignored. Dismissive comments. Twisting statements. You have been completely
borish, and I deeply regret the afternoon I wasted with you. Here's an intriguing suggestion;
put away your commentaries and read the entire letter to the Galatians and identify what Paul
is actually concerned with there. He was not spending chapters on idolatry. He was spending an
entire letter dismissing the notion that the Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses. That is what
is obvious to anyone who reads the letter. Anyone who reads your comments with see clearly
that you like to argue, and that you do not do so in good faith. You have provided nothing
edifying to this thread, just derailing by pushing into other letters and contexts, while being
genuinely disrespectful. I pray to never find you on a thread that I originate, as this has been
a mockery of Christian fellowship. Many thanks for the opportunity to practice longsuffering, with
the emphasis on suffering.

 

[BobRyan]

This describes what they may have been doing before they were born again.

True and therefore it dictates what is meant by "return again" to those same things. Context.. it matters.

that is the whole point.

It does nothing to prove how they were regressing.

It does everything to specify TO WHAT they were regressing.. Going back to doing what they were doing before.

At that point your whole line of speculation for Gal 4:8-11 falls apart.

 

[BobRyan]

Here's an intriguing suggestion;
put away your commentaries and read the entire letter to the Galatians and identify what Paul
is actually concerned with there. He was not spending chapters on idolatry. He was spending an
entire letter dismissing the notion that the Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses. That is what
is obvious to anyone who reads the letter. .

What is obvious to anyone that reads any of Paul's letters is that he is capable of addressing more than one issue.

The point remains -- the details of Gal 4:8-11 point to an issue being addressed by Paul that you had hoped to co-opt into another topic entirely

So then these scholars - these Bible commentaries by people who are not Sabbath keeping at all - refute your attempts in that regard.

"Them/Those which by nature are not gods" -- the details did not help your case at that point

A not-so-subtle detail I think we all see.

Adam Clarke Commentary on Gal 4:8
"When ye knew not God - Though it is evident, from the complexion of the whole of this epistle, that the great body of the Christians in the Churches of Galatia were converts from among the Jews or proselytes to Judaism; yet from this verse it appears that there were some who had been converted from heathenism;"

Ellicott’s Commentary Gal 4:8
(8) Them which by nature are no gods.—The gods of the heathen are called by St. Paul “devils.” (See 1 Corinthians 10:20 : “The things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to devils, and not to God.”)

Matthew Henry Gal 4:8
The happy change whereby the Galatians were turned from idols to the living God


Robertson’s Word Pictures of the New Testament: Gal 4:8
To them which by nature are not gods (τοις πυσει μη ουσι τεοις — tois phusei mē ousi theois). In 1 Corinthians 10:20 he terms them “demons,” the “so-called gods” (1 Corinthians 8:5), worshipping images made by hands (Acts 17:29).


======================

Nothing there about "the days of the OT text are demons or the complaint that the days listed in Lev 23 --are not gods--"

So it is very easy to see that the false gods of the pagans are in fact "not gods at all" as Paul points out.. those images those false gods as Robertson points out from 1Cor 10 are "demons"

 

[BobRyan]

Not even a good try.
You have pushed your position to extreme redundancy and forced me to repeat myself 3X over
while never making any direct reply. Passages from Acts that elaborate on what was going on
at the time. Ignored. Dismissive comments. Twisting statements. You have been completely
borish, and I deeply regret the afternoon I wasted with you.

The lack of substance from the text we are looking at - is hard to miss in that sort of response.

I prefer "the details" in the text so glaringly obvious that even the non-sabbath-keeping Bible scholars writing the commentaries I posted notice that it is a case of pagans returning to paganism not "pagans returning to Judaism" which would be utter nonsense in terms of a logical statement.

You have free will of course and can ignore all the glaringly obvious details I keep pointing out - that you wish... but that sort of "solution" is hardly compelling for the unbiased objective reader.

 

[BobRyan]

I did comment on this one verse and I will do so one more time.
They previously served by nature those which were not gods. check
They did not know the living God. check.
They now know God and are known by Him verse 9 check. Because they are born again.
They are now returning to weak and beggarly elements. check.

Yes this is the part too obvious to deny... agreed.

Clearly they are returning to paganism "you TURN AGAIN" to the

9 But now that you have come to know God,..., how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again?

your argument reduces down to "We simply should not notice" that this is a return to paganism ?? seriously?? what ELSE was a former pagan in Greece going to "Return AGAIN to"?? -- being a atheist in Asia? being an Eskimo?

How about - "being a pagan in Greece"???

If you can prove verse 10 is a reference to paganism, you have not shown it, or that
it is easily a reference to keeping the Law of Moses, which Paul says is unnecessary,
and a move in the wrong direction.

utter nonsense

Paul says "What MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Paul says that the very SAME LAW of Moses that condemns all mankind Rom 3:19-20 is the one ESTABLISHED by faith Rom 3:31

Paul lists the very SAME pre-cross commands of Moses in Romans 13 that Christ's lists in Matt 19 as binding on all Christians.

Paul says that the same unit of TEN where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - is the LAW that binds Christians to that very day - in Eph 6:1-2

Details your argument ignores - - if you want to help our own argument then either address the point or show us how you get around it.

Because as it is - not only are all the non-Sabbath scholars in the commentaries I quote creating a problem for you POV - but so are the Bible scholars on almost all Christian denominations on planet earth - as noted in this thread --
#1

 

[BrotherJJ]

Mark 7:6-13
"commandment of God" = "Moses said" = "Word of God" according to Christ

Matt 19 - "keep the commandments" said Christ.
"which ones" Christ is asked
And he lists from the TEN

Same list given by Paul in Rom 13 after the cross - as was the case before the cross.

Eph 6:1-2 the fifth commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" in that unit of Ten still binding on all mankind and still included in that law written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah and his readers - Jer 31:31-34 and unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12

These verses have nothing to do with the false narrative you promoted concerning Gal chapter 4. I'll leave our exchange here. May his grace be multiplied to you & yours. JJ

 

[Mr. M]

utter nonsense

The feelings are mutual.

 

[Soyeong]

Galatians 4:
1 Now I say the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave,
though he is master of all,
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman,
born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts,
crying out, Abba, Father!
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God
through Christ.
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature
are not gods.
9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how do you turn
again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

He says "under the Law" to express being under a burden of bondage.
Acts 15:
10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples
which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

The reason why God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1), and the Mosaic Law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law that puts us in bondage, while it is the truth that sets us free. In Titus 2:11-14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from bondage to the Mosaic Law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin in order to be free to do good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, not the other way around.

The view that we have of the Mosaic Law matches the view that we have of the Lawgiver for giving it. For example, God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy, and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so to put our faith in the Mosaic Law is to put our faith in the Lawgiver. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, which certainly matched his view of the Lawgiver, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will also delight in obeying it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), while viewing it as being bondage is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. Jews have daily prayers express thanks to God for giving the Torah, so we should not impose a negative view of the Mosaic Law onto people who consider the Psalms to be Scripture, especially because that would be expressing a negative view of the Lawgiver.

The Mosaic Law can be obeyed for purposes other than trying to earn our salvation, especially because it was never given as a means of doing that, so verses that speak against doing that should not be mistaken as speaking against our salvation requiring obedience to the Mosaic Law for some other reason. In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified, but said in Romans 4:4-5 that we can't earn our justification as through it were a wage by being doers of the Mosaic Law, so there is why our salvation requires obedience to the Mosaic Law that other than trying to earn it, namely faith.

In Acts 15:1, there was a group of non-believers who came from Judea who were wanting to require Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, so they were speaking about earning our salvation. They were opposed in Acts 15:5 by a group of believers from among the Pharisees who said that Gentiles needed to become circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law, and as believers, they were people who had faith, so they were speaking about requiring obedience to the Mosaic Law as a matter of faith. In Acts 15:10, the Jerusalem Council ruled against the first group in regard to earning our salvation being a burden that no one could bear and argued in favor of the first group. No one took the position that Gentiles didn't need to become circumcised or obey the Mosaic Law, especially because no one had the authority to countermand God, though the Jerusalem Council did soften the position of the second group by recognizing that no one can learn how to obey the Mosaic Law in a day, so they started with the basics, which they excused in Acts 15:21 by saying that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses over time by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

 

[Mr. M]

What is obvious to anyone that reads any of Paul's letters is that he is capable of addressing more than one issue.

The point remains -- the details of Gal 4:8-11 point to an issue being addressed by Paul that you had hoped to co-opt into another topic entirely

So then these scholars - these Bible commentaries by people who are not Sabbath keeping at all - refute your attempts in that regard.

This is a nice collection of flawed logic. The fact that Paul (obviously, since you like that word so much)
is capable of addressing multiple issues in a letter (who exactly is not capable of that, a child writing a
letter to Santa) completely ignores and fails to address the post. It is "obvious to anyone", that Paul
wrote this letter to the Galatians in reaction to false teachers demanding that they be circumcised
and keep the Law of Moses. This is also a clear example of the redundancy you force into every discussion, because what I am writing now, I had already written, and is what you were NOT responding
to with this illogical response.
Your repeated attempts to distort information with baseless suggestions and accusations such as:
"you had hoped to co-opt into another topic entirely". render your comments more meaningless.
Here is the best part:
What is the relevance of this: "Bible commentaries by people who are not Sabbath keeping at all".
A totally meaningless non fact, but I will respond to one, as you force my hand, to your regret.
Adam Clarke Commentary on Gal 4:8
"When ye knew not God - Though it is evident, from the complexion of the whole of this epistle, that the great body of the Christians in the Churches of Galatia were converts from among the Jews or proselytes to Judaism; yet from this verse it appears that there were some who had been converted from heathenism;"
OK-note first "it is evident". what is? the great body of Christians in the churches of the gentiles
"were proselytes to Judaism". Did you get that? and yet you say:

I prefer "the details" in the text so glaringly obvious that even the non-sabbath-keeping Bible scholars writing the commentaries I posted notice that it is a case of pagans returning to paganism not "pagans returning to Judaism" which would be utter nonsense in terms of a logical statement.

So your commentary here that you say "refutes my logic", destroys your whole position here.
He goes on to say "some who had been converted from heathenism;". Really? The citizens
of these cities of Asia Minor were heathen? Interesting, since people of the "New World", were
considered heathen. Does heathen=pagan? Notice the idle(idol) speculation in the last statement.
He goes from "evident", to "it appears". What is even more evident is your apparent ignorance of
God's own view of Judaism. Do you actually believe that the practices that were imposed on Israel
was God's original intent? You do greatly err.
Jeremiah 7:
22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them
out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you
shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.

Psalm 51:16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give, You do not delight in burnt offering.

Clarke's observation that most of the Greeks were already proselytes to Judaism completely supports
my position, as "co-opted' from: 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. and is
taken as the title of the thread, and the primary theme of the letter, in that the Jews and the Greeks
had left the synagogue to follow Paul, and had been established in Christian fellowship, only to go
back to weak religious practices imposed by "false teachers from Jerusalem" which were of no avail to someone "walking in the Spirit".
Your ignorance of the entirety of the letter to the Galatians has forced you into other epistles, using
comments about idolatry that are irrelevant to the discussion in the OP.
In summary, Adam Clarke's comments fully support my position. On the other hand, you have been
completely off-topic, and the only one who tried to "co-opt" anything. It is called "derailing the thread"

 

[Mr. M]

utter nonsense

Paul says "What MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Paul says that the very SAME LAW of Moses that condemns all mankind Rom 3:19-20 is the one ESTABLISHED by faith Rom 3:31

Paul lists the very SAME pre-cross commands of Moses in Romans 13 that Christ's lists in Matt 19 as binding on all Christians.

Paul says that the same unit of TEN where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - is the LAW that binds Christians to that very day - in Eph 6:1-2

Details your argument ignores - - if you want to help our own argument then either address the point or show us how you get around it.

Because as it is - not only are all the non-Sabbath scholars in the commentaries I quote creating a problem for you POV - but so are the Bible scholars on almost all Christian denominations on planet earth - as noted in this thread --

Nothing to do with: 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. The ceremonial
practices of Judaism.
1 Timothy 1:
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience,
and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

The only details that are being ignored is the content of Paul's letter to the Galatians, which the last
time I checked is the topic at hand. Your repeated use of comments like "utter nonsense" and "non-Sabbath scholars" [which is simply a bizarre turn of phrase that is irrelevant to the discussion], are born
of a self-confidence that you feel entitles you to completely ignore postings, while promoting a false
narrative. Everyone knows that the Ten Commandments and other moral imperatives are
incumbent upon all Christians, while there are practices of Judaism that according to Paul in his
epistles, especially Galatians, are of no benefit to a Gentile. You are off-topic again do to a lack of discernment "to rightly divide the scriptures".

 

[Mr. M]

At that point your whole line of speculation for Gal 4:8-11 falls apart.

Right back at ya.