20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[keras]

In case you missed it, Israel were in the land when Jesus came 2000 years ago. The covenant was fully and perfectly made. Please address all the avoided Scripture above that forbids your reasoning.

Firstly; it was the Jews, the House of Judah, who were in the Land when Jesus came. The House of Israel is yet to go back to all of the holy Land - as the Christian peoples.

'Avoided scripture'? I have posted plenty of prophesies that prove the New Covenant is not yet made.
You seem to want a Biblical anomaly; your scriptures forbid mine.
This is impossible and as none of the NT references to the NC clearly say when and to whom the NC will be made; then the OT ones I have presented are the truth about it.

The NC was 'fully and perfectly made 2000 years ago'?
You need a reality check!

 

[sovereigngrace]

Firstly; it was the Jews, the House of Judah, who were in the Land when Jesus came. The House of Israel is yet to go back to all of the holy Land - as the Christian peoples.

'Avoided scripture'? I have posted plenty of prophesies that prove the New Covenant is not yet made.
You seem to want a Biblical anomaly; your scriptures forbid mine.
This is impossible and as none of the NT references to the NC clearly say when and to whom the NC will be made; then the OT ones I have presented are the truth about it.

The NC was 'fully and perfectly made 2000 years ago'?
You need a reality check!

Totally untrue! Your fight is with Scripture. Your avoidance of text after text in this discussion proves that. He came to Israel and Judah. They had all been brought back from captivity for their Messiah. Let the Bible speak for itself.

Jesus states in Matthew 21:42-46: “Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.”

The near exclusive favour that natural Israel had formerly enjoyed would now be graciously widened to include the previously darkened Gentile people. How could any Christian miss the spiritual import of this teaching? The kingdom has been taken from Israel as a nation and given to another nation. Who is that nation? It is the largely Gentile New Testament Church comprised of all believers (both Jew and Gentile).

Matthew 23:31 testifies: “Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.”

Matthew 23:33-34: “Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city.”

Christ’s message to Israel in Matthew 23:37-38, says, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”

Matthew 27:24-25 records, "When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children."

Luke 11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.

John 19:5-7 records, “Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man! When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.”

John 1:10-11 says, “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.”

Acts 2:22-23 says, “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”

Acts 2:36 says, “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Acts 3:12 says, "And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses."

Pilate submitted himself to the sentence of the Jews - it was them that condemned Him, sentencing the Messiah to death. Acts 4:8-10 confirms, "Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."

Acts 5:30-31: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 7:51-52: “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.”

Paul the Apostle outlines this fact, when speaking of the Jews and the impending wrath of God on the nation of Israel, in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, “For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.”

He was nailed to the tree at the behest of evil men, but for it to be His own kith-and-kin was the tragedy. Israel is still feeling the consequences of rebellion.

 

[jgr]

I have posted plenty of prophesies that prove the New Covenant is not yet made.

The correct word is the noun "prophecies". You need to know how to spell it before you can understand it.

Jesus and the New Testament writers understood the prophecies that you've posted, intimately and correctly.

And they declared unanimously that the New Covenant was fulfilled.

So their understanding of the prophecies was the polar opposite of yours.

Because they understood that:

Revelation 19
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The choice:

1. Jesus and the New Testament writers
2. Keras

Couldn't be easier.

 

[Timtofly]

I am challenging your constant false portrayal of future sinless pristine millennial bliss after the second coming, when it is in fact saturated in the wicked and wickedness as the sand of the sea.

Your false assumption goes against your own eradication of sin you claim is now. You loose both arguments with your challenge.

You gave no answer to the end of sin, except nothingness. Your nothingness is an empty, void of anything, assumption where nothing exists.

Do you also deny God created reality without sin, or did God create sin embedded in reality?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Your false assumption goes against your own eradication of sin you claim is now. You loose both arguments with your challenge.

You gave no answer to the end of sin, except nothingness. Your nothingness is an empty, void of anything, assumption where nothing exists.

Do you also deny God created reality without sin, or did God create sin embedded in reality?

Stop avoiding the issues. Who are Gog and Magog that arise to overrun your supposed future millennial earth? Do they sin?

 

[Timtofly]

Stop avoiding the issues. Who are Gog and Magog that arise to overrun your supposed future millennial earth? Do they sin?

I already answered that and you responded to a totally different point.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I already answered that and you responded to a totally different point.

Not so you have continually avoided this because it exposes your beliefs. Stop avoiding the issues.

Who are Gog and Magog that arise to overrun your supposed future millennial earth? Do they sin?

 

[sovereigngrace]

I already answered that and you responded to a totally different point.

To 'cut' an agreement is normal vernacular. I simply mean; He had not yet fulfilled His side of the Covenant until His Blood was shed.

And as we Christians had 2000 +/- years of growth and refinement to come since then, our part remains unfulfilled.

Revelation 20:7-10 refers to a Gog/Magog type of army. They are obviously a different attack, with different results.

So there are 2 Gog/Magog type battles?

 

[Timtofly]

So there are 2 Gog/Magog type battles?

More than that throughout history, but this forum has mentioned two different events involving Gog and Magog.

Who ever was Gog and Megog? The Bible seems to point to nameless rebels on the fringes of society who were hired by other nations as warriors. They may as well be representative of uncivilized outcast.

There have been billions throughout history. What is your point? Do you pick on the homeless because they cannot fit into society?

 

[keras]

So there are 2 Gog/Magog type battles?

Yes.
One before Jesus Returns; Ezekiel 38 to 39 and the other at the end of the Millennium.
They are both described differently, with different outcomes.

He came to Israel and Judah

Only the House of Judah was present when Jesus was there.
Proved by the yet to happen prophecy of Ezekiel 37.

Even today, the Jews admit they are not all of Israel. But they don't correct the deceived Christians who send them money!

The correct word is the noun "prophecies". You need to know how to spell it before you can understand it.

I don't mind being corrected. Do you?
Making Salvation and Covenant mean the same, is error.
Salvation is for individuals and the New Covenant will be made between Jesus and all of His people, when they are are together. Jeremiah 32:37-40

 

[sovereigngrace]

More than that throughout history, but this forum has mentioned two different events involving Gog and Magog.

Who ever was Gog and Megog? The Bible seems to point to nameless rebels on the fringes of society who were hired by other nations as warriors. They may as well be representative of uncivilized outcast.

There have been billions throughout history. What is your point? Do you pick on the homeless because they cannot fit into society?

No. I just pick on false beliefs.

So your millennium is an unmitigated bust? It is overrun by "nameless rebels on the fringes of society who were hired by other nations as warriors" and are "uncivilized outcasts"? Sin abounds and we observe a rerun of our carnal day?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes.
One before Jesus Returns; Ezekiel 38 to 39 and the other at the end of the Millennium.
They are both described differently, with different outcomes.

Only the House of Judah was present when Jesus was there.
Proved by the yet to happen prophecy of Ezekiel 37.

Even today, the Jews admit they are not all of Israel. But they don't correct the deceived Christians who send them money!

I don't mind being corrected. Do you?
Making Salvation and Covenant mean the same, is error.
Salvation is for individuals and the New Covenant will be made between Jesus and all of His people, when they are are together. Jeremiah 32:37-40

Why can they not be the same?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes.
One before Jesus Returns; Ezekiel 38 to 39 and the other at the end of the Millennium.
They are both described differently, with different outcomes.

Only the House of Judah was present when Jesus was there.
Proved by the yet to happen prophecy of Ezekiel 37.

Even today, the Jews admit they are not all of Israel. But they don't correct the deceived Christians who send them money!

I don't mind being corrected. Do you?
Making Salvation and Covenant mean the same, is error.
Salvation is for individuals and the New Covenant will be made between Jesus and all of His people, when they are are together. Jeremiah 32:37-40

I have never seen a poster dodge so many clear Scriptures that expose their views. Salvation comes through the new covenant arrangement. They cannot be divorced. I refer you back to multiple posts that prove this.

 

[Timtofly]

No. I just pick on false beliefs.

So your millennium is an unmitigated bust? It is overrun by "nameless rebels on the fringes of society who were hired by other nations as warriors" and are "uncivilized outcasts"? Sin abounds and we observe a rerun of our carnal day?

So you pick on the less fortunate who stew in their plight why they cannot have what other people have...

You add sin to the text where there is none.

The angels who rebelled did not introduce sin into the world. Adam did that. Give me your verse that states otherwise. One can turn against perfection when one decides they are not going to follow society and what society has to offer.

This rebellion is at the end, and you can speculate all you want on what sets it off all you want. You claim Satan is hindered right now, yet he is not bound, but operates behind the scenes. You claim there cannot be life without sin, yet claim sin is not even present now because of the New Covenant. There is either no sin now or no sin after the 7th Trumpet, which is it? If you say sin is both now and after the 7th Trumpet, then how can you say sin does not exist now? Sin can only exist in the 6000 years God allotted for sin. Time will be no more means that sin will be no more. That is the Good News.

Why is your only objection of the next 1000 years based on sin itself? Do you think the 7th Trumpet sounded in the first century, and yet you are bitter over sin? Why take it out on God and His Sabbath that is set apart as Holy?

 

[jgr]

Making Salvation and Covenant mean the same, is error.
Salvation is for individuals and the New Covenant will be made between Jesus and all of His people, when they are are together. Jeremiah 32:37-40

Jesus and the NT writers understood Jeremiah 32:37-40 infinitely more accurately than you understand Jeremiah 32:37-40.

And they unanimously declared that the New Covenant was fulfilled.

Without error.

Because:
Revelation 19
10 ...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[keras]

I have never seen a poster dodge so many clear Scriptures that expose their views. Salvation comes through the new covenant arrangement. They cannot be divorced. I refer you back to multiple posts that prove this.

The sequence is, we accept Jesus' Salvation then we will make a New Covenant with Him. But what is NOT stated, anywhere in the New Testament, is when that NC will be made.
Jesus simply said: The time is coming.... Hebrews 8:8

We find that information in the OT prophesies, such as Jeremiah 32:37-40, Ezekiel 34:11-25, Isaiah 59:20-21 and others.
Until you and others here, acknowledge the truths of the OT prophets, then this issue will only be resolved when the events come to pass.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The sequence is, we accept Jesus' Salvation then we will make a New Covenant with Him. But what is NOT stated, anywhere in the New Testament, is when that NC will be made.
Jesus simply said: The time is coming.... Hebrews 8:8

We find that information in the OT prophesies, such as Jeremiah 32:37-40, Ezekiel 34:11-25, Isaiah 59:20-21 and others.
Until you and others here, acknowledge the truths of the OT prophets, then this issue will only be resolved when the events come to pass.

You do not get it. The new covenant was made by Christ not sinful man. The new covenant is a blood atonement. It occurred 2000 years ago. Man cannot save Himself. To reject this is to reject man's only hope of salvation.

 

[sovereigngrace]

So you pick on the less fortunate who stew in their plight why they cannot have what other people have...

You add sin to the text where there is none.

The angels who rebelled did not introduce sin into the world. Adam did that. Give me your verse that states otherwise. One can turn against perfection when one decides they are not going to follow society and what society has to offer.

This rebellion is at the end, and you can speculate all you want on what sets it off all you want. You claim Satan is hindered right now, yet he is not bound, but operates behind the scenes. You claim there cannot be life without sin, yet claim sin is not even present now because of the New Covenant. There is either no sin now or no sin after the 7th Trumpet, which is it? If you say sin is both now and after the 7th Trumpet, then how can you say sin does not exist now? Sin can only exist in the 6000 years God allotted for sin. Time will be no more means that sin will be no more. That is the Good News.

Why is your only objection of the next 1000 years based on sin itself? Do you think the 7th Trumpet sounded in the first century, and yet you are bitter over sin? Why take it out on God and His Sabbath that is set apart as Holy?

What are you talking about?

So you have billions of millennial rebels who rise up against Christ and righteousness and surround the camp of the saints 1,000 years and yet they do not sin? That is ridiculous!

The fact is: sin, death, disease, Satan, the wicked, wickedness and decay corrupt this current age, but are banished from the age to come at the end with the regeneration of the whole cosmos.

 

[jgr]

But what is NOT stated, anywhere in the New Testament, is when that NC will be made.
Jesus simply said: The time is coming.... Hebrews 8:8

Hebrews 8:6 precedes Hebrews 8:8 and DOES STATE:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

What tense is "now"?
What tense is "hath"?
What tense is "obtained"?
What tense is "is"?
What tense is "was"?
What tense is "established"?

Hebrews 8:13 reconfirms Hebrews 8:6 and DOES STATE:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

What tense is "saith"?
What tense is "hath"?
What tense is "made"?

We find that information in the OT prophesies, such as Jeremiah 32:37-40, Ezekiel 34:11-25, Isaiah 59:20-21 and others.

We find that information in the New Testament declarations of Jesus and the New Testament writers.

They were infinitely more familiar with Jeremiah 32:37-40, Ezekiel 34:11-25, Isaiah 59:20-21 than are you.

And they declared that the New Covenant was established. (Hebrews 8:6; Hebrews 8:13)

Unmistakably and unequivocally.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hebrews 8:6 precedes Hebrews 8:8 and DOES STATE:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

What tense is "now"?
What tense is "hath"?
What tense is "obtained"?
What tense is "is"?
What tense is "was"?
What tense is "established"?

Hebrews 8:13 reconfirms Hebrews 8:6 and DOES STATE:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

What tense is "saith"?
What tense is "hath"?
What tense is "made"?



We find that information in the New Testament declarations of Jesus and the New Testament writers.

They were infinitely more familiar with Jeremiah 32:37-40, Ezekiel 34:11-25, Isaiah 59:20-21 than are you.

And they declared that the New Covenant was established. (Hebrews 8:6; Hebrews 8:13)

Unmistakably and unequivocally.

All present tense. This is so easy to grasp, if one doesn't have a theological agenda to justify. And, well put!