1 John 1:9

[GreekOrthodox]

Confession was originally a public confession, in front of the congregation. Well, that can cause a few scandals, so by the 3rd and 4th centuries, confession was practiced privately for the most part.

“Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord” - St. Cyprian (The Lapsed) written in 251AD

 

[Servus]

Actually, I didn't say that...

Ever.

At ANY point.

I hate it when members on CF stuff words into my mouth like that. I happens SO often and it's seriously irritating.

Sorry, I didn't word that very well. I meant regarding those who do.

 

[Servus]

Just giving information about the Greek present tense. No surprise those who support OSAS hate the Greek present tense, subjunctive mood and conditional statements as 1 John 1:9 that begins with a conditional "if".
The present tense in Jn 3:16 shows one must continue to believe, a life long process, the same with confession in 1 Jn 1:9. Since you don't think this is correct, then you are saying one can quit believing yet still be saved anyway in his unbelief?

1 John 1:7 "But if (conditional word) we walk (present tense) in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth (present tense) us from all sin."
In the same context of 1 Jn 1:9, will you suggest one can stop walking in the light yet be saved anyway? But if one quits walking in the light he goes back to walking in the darkness (1 John 1:6) but saved anyway while walking in the dark?

Doing as God says as confessing is called obedience, doing righteousness. Not confessing is called disobedience, unrighteousness.

Well I myself said maybe. As for the blog I don't know who wrote it or where they stand doctrinally. As for OSAS, it's an age old belief that well known respected thologians, scholars and teachers hold to, so I'm not too quick to dismiss it. But I know there are also well known respected thologians, scholars and teachers who don't hold to it, and I'm not quick to dismiss them either.

 

[GraceBro]

1 John 1:9 (AV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Down through human history... God has confronted man with sin in an attempt to get man to face his sin. 1 John 1:9 is precisely that. We are forgiven all sin (as the tense of "forgive" is in the Greek: has forgiven / does forgive / shall forgive)... but with the confession to God not to others (Psalm 51:4)... we "come along side" God Greek "confess" homo logeo to face and acknowledge our sin...

some say to restore fellowship, I say to remove the sludge we encase ourselves in with sin from our otherwise crystal clear walk with God...

1 John 1:9 is a verse to unbelievers. Those who "claim to be without sin" and "the truth is not in." To confess is to acknowledge sin. We also must confess what God has done with that sin; no longer counting our sins against us. We are forgiven.

 

[Servus]

1 John 1:9 is a verse to unbelievers. Those who "claim to be without sin" and "the truth is not in." To confess is to acknowledge sin. We also must confess what God has done with that sin; no longer counting our sins against us. We are forgiven.

A lot of passages I see used by those who promote Lordship Salvation or their version of it, are directed at unbelievers. Some very obviously so. Which doesn't lend them much credibility.

 

[JohnD70X7]

1 John 1:9 is a verse to unbelievers. Those who "claim to be without sin" and "the truth is not in." To confess is to acknowledge sin. We also must confess what God has done with that sin; no longer counting our sins against us. We are forgiven.

Ah, right out of the People-To-People platform... Bob George and Company...

Though you may never have even heard of these... what you posted is what they taught.

This is why I teach (beyond the preliminary 1 John 1:9 ← because it is usually all that is taught on the subject...) that we must study the verse in context of 1 John 1:5 through 1 John 2:17 (which I strongly urge is repeatedly read and as a single block of text) to understand that believers are spoken to (not unbelievers) and that this is what forever saved individuals do about sin after being saved:

1 John 1:5–2:17 (AV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.*
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

The darkness / blindness etc. spoken of in the passage are of temporal matters in the believer's life.
Keeping his commands:

• Believe in the genuine Jesus (John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-10, John 6:29, John 16:27)
  
• Love one another (John 13:34)

The underscored / highlighted do not speak to unbelievers but believers who sometimes lapse into the same self righteousness the Sanhedrin did...

Without saving faith in Jesus it is impossible to even know the Father or who he is...

John 16:1–3 (AV)
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Or the Holy Spirit for that matter (14:17).

 

[GraceBro]

Ah, right out of the People-To-People platform... Bob George and Company...

Though you may never have even heard of these... what you posted is what they taught.

This is why I teach (beyond the preliminary 1 John 1:9 ← because it is usually all that is taught on the subject...) that we must study the verse in context of 1 John 1:5 through 1 John 2:17 (which I strongly urge is repeatedly read and as a single block of text) to understand that believers are spoken to (not unbelievers) and that this is what forever saved individuals do about sin after being saved:

1 John 1:5–2:17 (AV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.*
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

The darkness / blindness etc. spoken of in the passage are of temporal matters in the believer's life.
Keeping his commands:

• Believe in the genuine Jesus (John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-10, John 6:29, John 16:27)
  
• Love one another (John 13:34)

The underscored / highlighted do not speak to unbelievers but believers who sometimes lapse into the same self righteousness the Sanhedrin did...

Without saving faith in Jesus it is impossible to even know the Father or who he is...

John 16:1–3 (AV)
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Or the Holy Spirit for that matter (14:17).

I am very aware of the context and I believe the context of 1 John 1:9 is written to unbelievers; those who didn't believe Jesus came in the flesh. This is ultimately a Gospel issue. We have a different understanding of the Gospel. Therefore, we will agree to disagree on this subject. Grace and Peace.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

The verse does say God "is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." But this cleansing from unrighteousness is conditional upon the Christian's willingness to conditionally confess his/her sins.

Hebrews 10:26-27 is also evidence of this.

 

[Dave L]

But there is controversy about the verse. The verse does show that fogiveness of sins is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian's willingness (or unwillingness) to confess (verb - present tense, subjunctive mood) his/her sins. Meaning God's forgiveness/salvation (sunjunctive mood) is not automatically UNconditional no matter what the Christian does or does not do. OSAS creates controversy where none exists.

OSAS = believing God saved you. You cannot have saving faith if you think you can be lost.

 

[Dan Perez]

Well I myself said maybe. As for the blog I don't know who wrote it or where they stand doctrinally. As for OSAS, it's an age old belief that well known respected thologians, scholars and teachers hold to, so I'm not too quick to dismiss it. But I know there are also well known respected thologians, scholars and teachers who don't hold to it, and I'm not quick to dismiss them either.

Hi and in Gal 3:28 there 4 Greek words in the PRESENT TENSE , and 3 are ENI/ and one ESTE

The 3 Greek words are ENI / THERE IS and all 4 Greek words are in the PRESENT THENS and in the INDICATIVE MOOD .
The 3 Greek words are THERE IS NO , Jew or GREEK there is no BOND or FREE nor MALE NOR FEMALE for we ARE / ESTE " in CHRIST " .

So if you are saved , the PRESENT TENSE means yiu are aways SAVED , because the the PRESENT TENSE means CONTINUES ACTION in other words OSAS , PERIOD !

DAN P

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Hi and in Gal 3:28 there 4 Greek words in the PRESENT TENSE , and 3 are ENI/ and one ESTE

The 3 Greek words are ENI / THERE IS and all 4 Greek words are in the PRESENT THENS and in the INDICATIVE MOOD .
The 3 Greek words are THERE IS NO , Jew or GREEK there is no BOND or FREE nor MALE NOR FEMALE for we ARE / ESTE " in CHRIST " .

So if you are saved , the PRESENT TENSE means yiu are aways SAVED , because the the PRESENT TENSE means CONTINUES ACTION in other words OSAS , PERIOD !

DAN P

Cool to know that if I had died when I had converted to Islam but before I returned to Christianity I still would have gone to heaven.

 

[Servus]

OSAS = believing God saved you. You cannot have saving faith if you think you can be lost.

So those who believe they can lose their salvation aren't really saved?

And what about those who sometimes doubt or worry about their salvation?

 

[setst777]

1 John 1:9 (AV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Down through human history... God has confronted man with sin in an attempt to get man to face his sin. 1 John 1:9 is precisely that. We are forgiven all sin (as the tense of "forgive" is in the Greek: has forgiven / does forgive / shall forgive)... but with the confession to God not to others (Psalm 51:4)... we "come along side" God Greek "confess" homo logeo to face and acknowledge our sin...

some say to restore fellowship, I say to remove the sludge we encase ourselves in with sin from our otherwise crystal clear walk with God...

"1 John 1:9" is a beautiful Scripture when read in context as follows:

1 John 1:5-10 (NIV)
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1-6 (NIV)
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

From reading the above Passages regarding the forgiveness of sins, I understand that God will forgive the believer's sin if he confesses, but only as the believer demonstrates his faith by listening to and following Lord Jesus - denying self and following Lord Jesus into a life of love and service.

 

[Servus]

What exactly do you think it mean to confess our sins?

 

[Clare73]

But there is controversy about the verse. The verse does show that fogiveness of sins is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian's willingness (or unwillingness) to confess (verb - present tense, subjunctive mood) his/her sins. Meaning God's forgiveness/salvation (sunjunctive mood) is not automatically UNconditional no matter what the Christian does or does not do. OSAS creates controversy where none exists.

It's falling short of the mark after one is justified. . .salvation is not an issue.

 

[Clare73]

Maybe it just means the first time around. Afterall it doesn't say "If we keep confessing our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins each and every time we confess, because every time you sin, it's back to square one."

Do you think every time a child falls short of the mark, it's back to square one with his parents?

 

[Servus]

Do you think every time a child falls short of the mark, it's back to square one with his parents?

I'm in a low mood right now, so with all these conflicting interpretations I feel like I'm not sure what to think

 

[Clare73]

So John doesn't say if we continue to confess because of the verb he used. I don't think I'm buying into that. I don't think justification is meant to be a sink or swim us trading water operation. For instance, what if someone tells a lie, and then gets hit by a bus before they have time to confess? What if you forget to confess a sin etc? I believe God already knows I'm sorry for the sins I commit. I confess them as a matter of coming clean with God and so that I can ask for help in overcoming them, not to keep from having my justification revoked.

It's about a relationship with God where you agree with him regarding your sin and look to him and trust him for power to become more faithful in your obedience.

 

[Servus]

It's about a relationship with God where you agree with him regarding your sin and look to him and trust him for power to become more faithful in your obedience.

Sounds right. But I'm expecting someone to shoot it down.

 

[Clare73]

I'm in a low mood right now, so with all these conflicting interpretations I feel like I'm not sure what to think

Take a break. . .you are fine. . .go talk to your Father. . .get some rest. . .I will pray for you. . .be honest with your Father.