Torben Sondergaard on Ravi Zacharias - a wake up call.

[Carl Emerson]

This is a strong Word that challenges the heart of our Christianity.

Torben is Danish and runs an international evangelism campaign from Florida.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Yes I recall some of his videos comparing Toronto blessing and Brownsville Revival with Kundalini mysticism.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So if he may be excessive in one area we should not hear him in another?

Did you watch the video?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

IMHO Jesus has him covered .

 

[Carl Emerson]

IMHO Jesus has him covered .

Do you mean he repented of his double life before he departed?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

So if he may be excessive in one area we should not hear him in another?

Did you watch the video?

Yes I watched most of it.

Actually I liked his other one's too. He remind me of a younger Reinhard Bonke.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Nice that you know Bonke - few seem to...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes I watched most of it.

Actually I liked his other one's too. He remind me of a younger Reinhard Bonke.

Are we missing real freedom by failing to understand the whole gospel as he suggests?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Are we missing real freedom by failing to understand the whole gospel as he suggests?

I agree with some of his criticism, but I see things a bit more sacramentally and Existentially. In certain areas of Evangelicism, Christianity and Salvation can be either over simplified or maybe framed in terms that are all positive etc. Lots of themes like struggle, the importance of suffering etc. don't get adequate treatment in some areas of Protestantism because of the conundrum of "works" and ministers being afraid of people getting the notion that they can "earn their salvation" ((aka Pelagianiasm.)


But I would be loathe, to try to say their is some special specific problem or message that we easily fix to end problems like Zavi Zecharias because I think many people are tempted in many different ways etc. OK I guess the message of "taking up your cross" daily would be one to preach more...


But this issue is one of those timeless perennial problems almost, like Job, David and believers of later times grieving over misfortune in their lives when the wicked are doing well.

 

[Jeshu]

So if he may be excessive in one area we should not hear him in another?

Did you watch the video?

i think that those who misuse their position of influence to feed the flesh, are wolves in sheep clothing. A double life is a life of lies. The truth of the good news is being used to prop up the lies.

i think this gives the enemies of Christ i lot of ammunition.

We need a new heart, which comes through sanctification, where we die to the old way, each day a bit more if need be, until we walk free, but free we need to become.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Torben mentions how Ravi 'managed' his other life rather than dealing with it so the demonic was allowed to reign in a well controlled manner.

We read that the early believers renounced secret and shameful ways.

Renounce in the Greek means to 'speak against'

I agree with Torben that we need to banish any demonically fuelled behaviours in the authority of His Name.

This essential purging of our lives from demonic infiltration needs to have more emphasis in our discipleship programmes.

 

[topher694]

What Ravi did was horrendous, but one of the few people I will openly recommend people not listen to is Torben.

 

[paul1149]

I don't agree with everything Torben does, but he gets a lot right, and he's on point here. The church needs to be holy, as it is called to be. Only then will we have the power for living out the Gospel and for witnessing.

A while back I caught a video of a much younger Zacharias preaching, and it struck me hard that it was of the wrong spirit. He was using his intellect and command of facts to impress and to climb the professional ropes. But in later years he seemed to have gotten over that and was at times exquisite in his explanation of the Gospel. Sad to see it was a front.

1John says that no one who is born of the spirit can practice sin. I don't know where the line is, and regarding others it's not my job to know either. But this implosion is serious enough that the church needs to do serious soul-searching to make sure we are living out the Gospel in all its fullness. To a large extent we have been getting it wrong.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What Ravi did was horrendous, but one of the few people I will openly recommend people not listen to is Torben.

Maybe we should explore this on another thread... ??

 

[topher694]

Maybe we should explore this on another thread... ??

Didn't mean to hijack, I have no desire to talk about Torben beyond the general concern I've already raised. Ravi is pretty low hanging fruit right now, so it's pretty easy to say the right things about the situation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Didn't mean to hijack, I have no desire to talk about Torben beyond the general concern I've already raised. Ravi is pretty low hanging fruit right now, so it's pretty easy to say the right things about the situation.

Do you think Torben is saying the right things on this occasion then?

 

[topher694]

Do you think Torben is saying the right things on this occasion then?

I think he is saying a lot of the right things yes, but to quote his own words from this very video:

"You can preach the right things and still be lost in your sins"

This can apply to all of us, including Torben.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think he is saying a lot of the right things yes, but to quote his own words from this very video:

"You can preach the right things and still be lost in your sins"

This can apply to all of us, including Torben.

I agree... but are you implying it applies to Torban in particular for some reason?

 

[topher694]

I agree... but are you implying it applies to Torban in particular for some reason?

I think I'll just refer to my previous post expressing concern and leave it at that.

 

[Jeshu]

Are we missing real freedom by failing to understand the whole gospel as he suggests?

i think if we are happy with anything less than freedom from sin then we have misunderstood the Scriptures. It is about coming to newness of life not hide away in our old life but bury it and be done with it.

Holy Life with Jesus is an ever growing reality in those who love and serve Jesus where staying in sin and leading others in sin is done away with in favour of having life in His Loving Truth.