Halloween and "cultural appropriation".

[Ken-1122]

Because it’s being marketed to them by professionals.

So you admit this isn't something that can be fixed by helping the poor.

 

[gaara4158]

So you admit this isn't something that can be fixed by helping the poor.

On the contrary: helping the poor is the only way this can be fixed. The problematic elements of “street” culture being exported to wealthy suburban customers are only there in the first place because of the material conditions of the streets. Fix that, and you fix what your precious gated communities are importing from them.

 

[Strathos]

As long as I keep my assumptions to myself he won’t be offended now will he. Racial bias is to have a bias against someone that I feel is bad; I don’t think playing basketball is bad. An example would be, if I find the trait laziness or greed to be bad, and I were to see a Mexican person and a white person and assume the Mexican is lazy and the white person is greedy, that would be a bias. I am saying I do not make such assumptions against people based on race; not even at the unconscious level, and if you want to try to convince me that I do, you need to bring more to the table than; “trust me, everybody does it” I am too much of a skeptic to just take your word for it.

Now you're moving the goalposts. I never said that everyone outwardly expresses their bias, just that they have it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Now you're moving the goalposts. I never said that everyone outwardly expresses their bias, just that they have it.

You are the one who mentioned me offending the tall guy by assuming basketball; I addressed expressing bias because you mentioned it. I'm saying I don't have any assumptions about anybody due to their race that I consider to be bad.

 

[Ken-1122]

On the contrary: helping the poor is the only way this can be fixed. The problematic elements of “street” culture being exported to wealthy suburban customers are only there in the first place because of the material conditions of the streets. Fix that, and you fix what your precious gated communities are importing from them.

Street culture is not something that is being exported to suburban customers, it's something that exist in suburban neighborhoods as well. The decision to have irresponsible sex when you are unable to support a child is not fixed by helping the poor, the idea of blowing off school is not fixed by helping the poor; don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting helping the poor is useless, I'm just saying all the problems the poor has are not going to be associated with a lack of finances.

 

[Strathos]

You are the one who mentioned me offending the tall guy by assuming basketball; I addressed expressing bias because you mentioned it. I'm saying I don't have any assumptions about anybody due to their race that I consider to be bad.

Maybe not consciously, but if you've been exposed to media, culture, and society (i.e. you weren't raised by wolves), you have subconscious preconceptions about people due to various traits, including race. As for those assumptions being "bad", it's not that black and white. I'm not talking about blatantly biased views, like 'black people are lazy', or 'white people are cruel', but much more subtle thoughts that are not necessarily 'good' or 'bad', depending on perspective.

 

[muichimotsu]

Street culture is not something that is being exported to suburban customers, it's something that exist in suburban neighborhoods as well. The decision to have irresponsible sex when you are unable to support a child is not fixed by helping the poor, the idea of blowing off school is not fixed by helping the poor; don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting helping the poor is useless, I'm just saying all the problems the poor has are not going to be associated with a lack of finances.

No one said it was necessarily a panacea, but suggesting it's not going to help at all is being dismissive of that factor in regards to those cultural norms that wouldn't be as appealing necessarily if you had more affluence.

Of course we have the examples with this subculture being marketed to upper class and bleeding into suburban areas (don't see it in my suburban area and I'm arguably on the border of rural areas anyway, so clearly there's some problematic subculture by this seeming conflation of impoverished people and cultural corruption). But the issues are multifaceted and systemic bias against the poor is only compounding systemic biases against non white people that have been around for longer than the growing problem of the upper class controlling an excessive amount of wealth and thus not really stimulating the economy in the uber capitalist model of hoarding money

 

[Ken-1122]

Maybe not consciously, but if you've been exposed to media, culture, and society (i.e. you weren't raised by wolves), you have subconscious preconceptions about people due to various traits, including race. As for those assumptions being "bad", it's not that black and white. I'm not talking about blatantly biased views, like 'black people are lazy', or 'white people are cruel', but much more subtle thoughts that are not necessarily 'good' or 'bad', depending on perspective.

By definition; if I don't see it as good or bad, it is not a bias.

 

[Strathos]

By definition; if I don't see it as good or bad, it is not a bias.

Not everyone sees things the same way you do, though.

 

[Ken-1122]

Not everyone sees things the same way you do, though.

True! If I see greed as a bad thing, but you see greed as neither good nor bad, and we both believe people of "X" race are greedy, I have a bias against people of that race, but you do not even though we both have the same preconceived notions of them

 

[gaara4158]

Street culture is not something that is being exported to suburban customers, it's something that exist in suburban neighborhoods as well. The decision to have irresponsible sex when you are unable to support a child is not fixed by helping the poor, the idea of blowing off school is not fixed by helping the poor; don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting helping the poor is useless, I'm just saying all the problems the poor has are not going to be associated with a lack of finances.

It has been objectively demonstrated that the most successful method of preventing STDs and unwanted pregnancies is comprehensive sex education. Improving education is one of the methods I brought up earlier of investing in impoverished communities, or as you put it “helping the poor.”

 

[Ken-1122]

It has been objectively demonstrated that the most successful method of preventing STDs and unwanted pregnancies is comprehensive sex education. Improving education is one of the methods I brought up earlier of investing in impoverished communities, or as you put it “helping the poor.”

Comprehensive sex education? They're already doing that! What they are not doing is change of culture, and promoting the family structure. I see that as a bigger problem.

 

[Ken-1122]

No one said it was necessarily a panacea, but suggesting it's not going to help at all is being dismissive of that factor in regards to those cultural norms that wouldn't be as appealing necessarily if you had more affluence.

Of course we have the examples with this subculture being marketed to upper class and bleeding into suburban areas (don't see it in my suburban area and I'm arguably on the border of rural areas anyway, so clearly there's some problematic subculture by this seeming conflation of impoverished people and cultural corruption). But the issues are multifaceted and systemic bias against the poor is only compounding systemic biases against non white people that have been around for longer than the growing problem of the upper class controlling an excessive amount of wealth and thus not really stimulating the economy in the uber capitalist model of hoarding money

How does the upper class control the wealth and hoard money? Examples?

 

[gaara4158]

Comprehensive sex education? They're already doing that! What they are not doing is change of culture, and promoting the family structure. I see that as a bigger problem.

Comprehensive sex education is not offered in all school districts. Less than half of the states in the US have any sort of mandatory sex education, and of those that don’t, only three have a requirement that any sex education that is taught be medically accurate. These are the material conditions contributing to the culture you’re complaining about, and you’re scoffing at any efforts to improve them. Are you truly interested in improving the culture, or are you just looking for an excuse to wash your hands of social issues?

 

[Ken-1122]

Comprehensive sex education is not offered in all school districts. Less than half of the states in the US have any sort of mandatory sex education, and of those that don’t, only three have a requirement that any sex education that is taught be medically accurate. These are the material conditions contributing to the culture you’re complaining about, and you’re scoffing at any efforts to improve them. Are you truly interested in improving the culture, or are you just looking for an excuse to wash your hands of social issues?

Most of the places where it is taught are places where this culture it is more of a problem; the places less likely to teach it are the places where it isn't seen to be as much of an issue.

 

[gaara4158]

Most of the places where it is taught are places where this culture it is more of a problem; the places less likely to teach it are the places where it isn't seen to be as much of an issue.

Literally the opposite is true. Places with comprehensive sex education have less teen pregnancy, fewer abortions, and fewer STDs than places without it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Literally the opposite is true. Places with comprehensive sex education have less teen pregnancy, fewer abortions, and fewer STDs than places without it.

I wasn't really referring to the number of teen pregnancies and abortions, but the culture that glamorizes it and other destructive behaviors; which is usually the big cities as opposed to the small town. Are you saying big cities have less sex education than the small towns?

 

[gaara4158]

I wasn't really referring to the number of teen pregnancies and abortions, but the culture that glamorizes it and other destructive behaviors; which is usually the big cities as opposed to the small town. Are you saying big cities have less sex education than the small towns?

You understand that there is a direct correlation between comprehensive sex education and better reproductive outcomes though, right? Are you suggesting the quality of sex education and the culture in the affluent parts of big cities is the same as that in the poor parts? Even if what you said were true, that just demonstrates that comprehensive sex education is more effective than any cultural influences.

 

[Ken-1122]

You understand that there is a direct correlation between comprehensive sex education and better reproductive outcomes though, right?

What do you mean by better reproductive outcomes?

Are you suggesting the quality of sex education and the culture in the affluent parts of big cities is the same as that in the poor parts?

I don't know. I would assume the sex education would be the same (don't know why it would be different) but the culture would be different. What does this have to do with what I asked?

 

[muichimotsu]

Comprehensive sex education? They're already doing that! What they are not doing is change of culture, and promoting the family structure. I see that as a bigger problem.

Uh...no they're not, it isn't an absolute universal, it's varying a lot by state, if not county level in terms of how much they're willing to put into it funding wise, same as problems with arts programs losing funding. So much of this still boils down to a plutocratic tendency, where if you don't have to spend money, you won't because otherwise you'll lose face with those who provide you that funding and can lord it over you.

The problem is as much a capitalism run rampant and unchecked by any kind of socialist principles as the colonialist and imperialist tendencies that persist today alongside that idea that as long as America gets ahead, it doesn't matter if we have to step over our own people or even foreign nations to get what we want: just "acceptable losses" and "collateral damage" that is swept under the rug. This isn't a purely cultural thing, this is a societal and systemic change that will need to start and gradually as well or worse problems will result.