Looking for a Messianic congregation

[Resident Alien]

Hi.

So many Gentile churches are anti semitic and anti Zionist. Replacement theology seems rampant. So I'm looking for a congregation that is more pro Jewish and pro Israel.

I understand why Jewish believers wouldn't want to lose their Jewishness or abandon all their traditions but it seems like all the Messianic congregations I've visited or looked into all observe the feasts and the Sabbath and emphasize observance of the Law.

I believe God will restore His people Israel when Christ returns; but just because a person is Jewish doesn't mean they're immune to error doctrinally.

I'm wondering what you all believe a Messianic Jewish congregation should look like. What practices are legitimate for Jewish believers and when have they stepped over the line dividing justification by faith and justification by works?

 

[tampasteve]

The largest Messianic organizations are the MJAA and UMJC.

Hi.

So many Gentile churches are anti semitic and anti Zionist. Replacement theology seems rampant. So I'm looking for a congregation that is more pro Jewish and pro Israel.

True, it can be tough to find a good Church.

I understand why Jewish believers wouldn't want to lose their Jewishness or abandon all their traditions but it seems like all the Messianic congregations I've visited or looked into all observe the feasts and the Sabbath and emphasize observance of the Law.

Yes, that is very important to Messianic believers. The Sabbath and feasts are very important. No Messianic organization should be giving up on these aspects. As to how observant they are to the rest of the Law, that varies.

I believe God will restore His people Israel when Christ returns; but just because a person is Jewish doesn't mean they're immune to error doctrinally.

I don't think that any normal Messianic group would think they are immune to error possibly. If they do then they are not really following the tenants of Judaism. Most are growing and adjusting all the time while studying Torah and the scriptures. Many give extra responsibilities to people that are halachically Jewish, but that is not the same thing.

I'm wondering what you all believe a Messianic Jewish congregation should look like. What practices are legitimate for Jewish believers and when have they stepped over the line dividing justification by faith and justification by works?

That is tough to answer, there are different ideas and practices of different Messianic organizations that kind of run the spectrum of Judaism and Christianity.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

Hi.

So many Gentile churches are anti semitic and anti Zionist. Replacement theology seems rampant. So I'm looking for a congregation that is more pro Jewish and pro Israel.

Ugh. You aren't kidding. Your experience is churches is not unique at all, and I get where you are coming from.

I understand why Jewish believers wouldn't want to lose their Jewishness or abandon all their traditions but it seems like all the Messianic congregations I've visited or looked into all observe the feasts and the Sabbath and emphasize observance of the Law.

... with the understanding that Torah isn't the ultimate means of salvation, but rather what people being saved do. Torah is written on the heart in the New Covenant (cf. Yirme`yahu 31, Y`chez`qel 36, et al.), and the former wanton desire for lawlessness is replaced with the instruction of faith to do the will of HaShem, for faith is not simply a mental assention of something but also the obedience of what one professes.

I believe God will restore His people Israel when Christ returns; but just because a person is Jewish doesn't mean they're immune to error doctrinally.

The words of the prophets show that there is sufficient error to go around. Yet, it is true; He will restore His covenant people, those who are native children of Yisra`el and those whom He also calls to sojourn with them.

I'm wondering what you all believe a Messianic Jewish congregation should look like. What practices are legitimate for Jewish believers and when have they stepped over the line dividing justification by faith and justification by works?

Messiah Yeshua said that the Torah and the Prophets were written concerning Him. If traditions do no harm to this, they are fine. The biggest hurdle you might have is unlearning those traditions that were not present during the 1st century CE following of Messiah.

Life in the congregations during that first century were diametrically different from what we see today in mainstream religion, and it will be important to ask honest questions, leaving behind the antisemitic/anti-Zionist elements of the things you have seen preached thus far. Rabbis and elders are not immune to examination and ought to be willing to speak about varying concepts in-depth; in truth, having involved conversations about aspects of faith and obedience is a very Jewish thing.

Good luck.

 

[visionary]

As with all congregations, there are errors. Finding ones that are on the same page as you are is like finding everyone at the same sign post on the narrow path. We all are not at the same spot in faith. Even here there are those who carry baggage from their travels that are not the Lord's. There are those of us who are in great need on the stone rubbing to help reveal what jewels we are. If knowledge was the key to salvation, we would work to graduate. Since faith is a relationship with Him, we have to lay our daily, minute but minute before Him, so that He may cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Fellowship with a congregation has its benefits and disadvantages. Finding that perfect fit isn't going to happen, as you would get complacent. Finding one that inspires you to dig deeper, seek Him more, and love more is something that will help satisfy the soul. May you be blessed with God's leading to the place He wants you to be.. A place that challenges you, sharpens your mind and soul, and one that brings you peace with your fellow worshippers.

 

[HARK!]

I believe that loving obedience to the Father's word, is the fruit of faith. YHWH tells us to keep his Moedim forever. His son tells us that nothing has passed from the Torah.

Keeping the Moedim, was the primary factor that brought me to a Messianic congregation. There was no question in my mind as to whether or not I should be doing the Father's will. Once I started sharing fellowship with the like minded; I was faced with a much more complicated question: How do I honor YHWH's Moedim.

I know of more than one Messianic Congregation that has split up over which calendar to keep.

I would still fellowship with those who keep a different calendar. I have learned and taught much from those who see things differently than I have/do.

The Apostles moved around from gathering to gathering. There is much to be received, and much to be given, with this approach.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi.

So many Gentile churches are anti semitic and anti Zionist. Replacement theology seems rampant. So I'm looking for a congregation that is more pro Jewish and pro Israel.

I understand why Jewish believers wouldn't want to lose their Jewishness or abandon all their traditions but it seems like all the Messianic congregations I've visited or looked into all observe the feasts and the Sabbath and emphasize observance of the Law.

I believe God will restore His people Israel when Christ returns; but just because a person is Jewish doesn't mean they're immune to error doctrinally.

I'm wondering what you all believe a Messianic Jewish congregation should look like. What practices are legitimate for Jewish believers and when have they stepped over the line dividing justification by faith and justification by works?

Hello,

Jesus came to bring fullness to Judaism as its Jewish Messiah in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy. He practiced Judaism by living in sinless obedience to the Torah and by teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were becoming zealous for the Torah, so all Christians were Torah observant Jews for roughly the first 7-15 years after the resurrection of Jesus up until the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10. So Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah, and this is what Messianic Jewish congregations should look like, but with the inclusion of Gentiles.

In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his works by his faith, so doing good works in obedience to God is what faith looks like. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Torah. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. Every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is also an example of works, and there are many other verses that associate our faith with our obedience to God and associate breaking faith with our disobedience to God.

The reason why can't earn our justification by obeying the Torah is because it was never given for that purpose, so we should be careful not to mistake verses that speak against earning our justification by obeying the Torah as being against our justification requiring our obedience to the Torah for the purposes for which it was given. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey the Torah and will be justified by that same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the Torah will be justified while denying in Romans 4:4-5 that we can earn our justification by being doers of the Torah, so obedience to the Torah is required to be justified, but not in order to earn it.

While Abraham believed God, so he was justified, it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's instructions to offer Isaac, so he did not earn his justification by his obedience to God's instructions, but rather the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience. In James 2:21-22, it says that Abraham was justified by his works, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so Abraham was justified by his works only insofar as his works were an expression of his faith, but he was not justified by his works insofar as they were an attempt to earn his justification.

 

[Resident Alien]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

After reading and considering what you've said I've been able to focus in on what seems to trouble me most about the Jewish Messianic groups I've encountered. That is, they all seem to concentrate heavily on the Torah at the expense of the New Testament. It seems to me that sincere followers of Christ would be more interested in what the New Testament has to say.

I realize both are important but there needs to be a healthy balance.

 

[tampasteve]

Indeed, a balance is needed. A main issue in the mainstream "Christian" churches is the lack of balance the other direction. That said, the "New Testament" should only be read in light of the "Old". Reading them out of balance brings forth all sorts of challenges that can't be reconciled. Too much of the correct way of Worship or Doctrine gets thrown out because "Jesus canceled the Law" or "Jesus fulfilled the Law, so it is done away with". These statements are erroneous and incorrect, and lead one to all sorts of issues in Faith.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

After reading and considering what you've said I've been able to focus in on what seems to trouble me most about the Jewish Messianic groups I've encountered. That is, they all seem to concentrate heavily on the Torah at the expense of the New Testament. It seems to me that sincere followers of Christ would be more interested in what the New Testament has to say.

I realize both are important but there needs to be a healthy balance.

Since christianity tends to leave Torah behind, I can't take that assessment seriously. In fact, I've often observed that those who are most critical of Torah are those who have never attempted obedience to HaShem in it.

Messianic followers of Yeshua treat the Scriptures as a whole, not as parts to be separated by a page between Mal`achi and Mattityahu. We take the new covenant seriously and acknowledge that Torah is at the heart of it.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Hello.

Jerome translated Hebrew Bible into Latin directly, but he disliked Jewish. Many godfathers’ doctrines declared Jewish had been utilized completely and they should be kicked out, including Messianic Jew. But the original intention of Apostle Paul(Saul) was hoping the western churches he founded would help Jewish in the future. For historic reason in Paul’s time Jewish had many bad feelings to Greek and Roman. But Paul’s love to them was true. He never thought only utilizing them then kicking them out.

Romans 15:27 They were pleased to do it, but the fact is that they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared with the Jews in spiritual matters, then the Gentiles clearly have a duty to help the Jews in material matters.

As an Oriental, I should thank western missionaries brought the Gospel to Oriental. For the same reason, all the world owe Jewish.

 

[issa]

Hi RA,

Yes, there is no perfect one. I have several groups around me but I find that I am happiest when I am studying the Scriptures deeply myself. The siddur prayers are fine and I would like to do them every once in a while but having my whole Shabbat programmed is not restful for me.

While it is interesting to know about the Oral Law, I do not find it worth studying deeply for personal applications. I like to study the Whole Word - Old and New Testaments. Praying Shema is good.

That said, a lot of fellowships follow the annual cycle which I think is too heavy to study together deeply enough. I led a small group in studying using the triennial cycle and it took us a whole week to finish via chat, lol. That is also what Yeshua followed during His time. The problem with that is a search for a reading plan can yield varied results. Not to mention that if you follow the Aviv (Barley) and New Moon calendar for observing the biblical feasts, it could throw you off of the schedule completely especially this year as it looks like Passover will be super early! My personal solution is to make a plan to study the Whole Bible fully. The parashah do not really cover all of the Bible and you really need to read through a book to fully grasp it. That is hard to do with the segmented weekly portions. Also, the Hebrew OT has a different order from the one that our English OT follows and the order does make a difference when you read just as watching parts of a movie out of order will be confusing.

I believe that we need to be making disciples. I have found a fellowship that does exactly that and we meet online though most of the members are based in Ohio. We meet on zoom for Bible study on Thursdays (then watch episodes of a biblical virtual tour of Israel after) and discipleship on Saturday mornings.

Shalom!

 

[Laureate]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

After reading and considering what you've said I've been able to focus in on what seems to trouble me most about the Jewish Messianic groups I've encountered. That is, they all seem to concentrate heavily on the Torah at the expense of the New Testament. It seems to me that sincere followers of Christ would be more interested in what the New Testament has to say.

I realize both are important but there needs to be a healthy balance.

Yᵊsʰûʷəʰ said, if you do not Believe [trust and rely on] the Writings of Môsʰé, then how can you Believe on him, illustrating the importance of the writings of Môsʰé as a contingency to comprehend the words of Yᵊsʰûʷəʰ.

In Yeshayahu 8 Immanuel [Hᵊməsʰîəkʰ] informs us what Doctrine his children keep, i.e., the Torah, and the Testimony of his Disciples, if one does not speak accordingly, it is because there is no light in them.

However according to Yᵊsʰûʷəʰ the Torah is not exclusive to the writings of only Môsʰé, it includes the words of all the Prophets from Abvrᵊhəm to Malachi [aka John the Baptist].

 

[Laureate]

In Revelations Yᵊsʰûʷəʰ acknowledges Seven Congregations as belonging to him, yet only two of which are portrayed as being Faithful, in that they are not reprimanded by Yᵊsʰûʷəʰ and asked to Repent, they are the Angel and Congregation of Smyrna, and Philadelphia, with Smyrna are the Anointed Keepers of the Word, and if they Continue to exercise Faith until Death, they will receive the Crown which the members of the congregation of Philadelphia receive.

I believe the goal is to be counted as a member of Philadelphia, and retain what one has attained unto, that they may also receive the promises of being a permanent fixture in the temple body.