Help with Gal 4:10-11

Carl Emerson

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No! Paul was showing that there is no justification or salvation in the things that we do because we are all sinners in need of God's grace and salvation. Paul is talking about being justified by the works of the law for salvation. Lent, Christmas and Easter all have their origin in paganism that have crept into Christianity today and not from the bible so Paul would not be talking about these.

Mmmm... maybe I miscommunicated ??

Your position is that Paul is referring to not reverting back to Pagan practices.

I mentioned Lent, Sabbath, Christmas, Easter, Passover...

Was he in your opinion speaking against any or all of these?
 
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Dave G.

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These were Christians who fell back into Temple Judaism by observing ceremonial rituals for the forgiveness of sin. Like the day of atonement.
The Galations were mainly gentiles but drawn to the Jewish customs by the Judaizers. I get what you're saying Maria. The term "fell back" could be taken wrong by some though. I find myself saying that sometimes. God Bless.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Mmmm... maybe I miscommunicated ??

Your position is that Paul is referring to not reverting back to Pagan practices.

I mentioned Lent, Sabbath, Christmas, Easter, Passover...

Was he in your opinion speaking against any or all of these?

If you read post # 8, it is more then the Galatians returning back to pagan practices it is also about the Galatians trying to get their salvation from the works of the law instead of faith in Christ. As posted also earlier. Paul would not have been talking about Lent, Christmas and Easter as they were not even invented and in the Church in Paul's day. Definitely not the seventh day Sabbath or he would have mentioned it because it is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is that Paul describes as Holy Just and Good in Romans 7:12; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20.
 
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hislegacy

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Gal 4:

10
You observe days and months and seasons and years.

11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

What was Paul referring to, and are we still in danger of doing this today?

First look at the verses in context:

Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. This is what Paul is referring to.

8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

12 Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all. 13 You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first.

Pretty self explanatory - Paul is warning about going back to old ways that was based on works and not Grace. And yes, we can still do it today.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Not in the specific passage we are discussing...

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
We are all in the same Body of Christ. Judaizers are Christians who teach it is necessary to adopt Jewish customs and practices. Its all the same thing, the Gospel of error.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Impossible, the Galatians were gentile believers so they could not be going back to seek God's forgiveness in sin offerings and the day of atonement as they were not previously Jews but unbelieving pagans.
They were being led by the Judaizers into a false Gospel. In the end it is all connected and the same. The god of pagans is the same god of the Judaizers who He, God Himself, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, did not know anymore.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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They were being led by the Judaizers into a false Gospel. In the end it is all connected and the same. The god of pagans is the same god of the Judaizers who He, God Himself, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, did not know anymore.
Sure but this is not in reference to Galatians 4:10 which shows the context in Galatians 4:8-9, is to Gentile believers returning to practices that they just came from before they knew God...

[8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

See the scripture breakdown in post # 8 linked..

The Galatians were gentile believers so they could not be going back to seek God's forgiveness in sin offerings and participating in the feast days etc.. as they were not Jews to begin with but unbelieving pagan gentiles that did not practice the teachings of the old testament scriptures. It is true though that the unbelieving Jews and the unbelieving Gentiles have the same God of bondage (sin) and this is what God is calling us out from.
 
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disciple Clint

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I just posted it. The bible. You posted a link to someones opinion.
The people who write commentaries are not just someone expressing an opinion, they are scholars who have spent years and years going to school and reviewing the scriptures then they write their exegesis which is then reviewed by other scholars who have years and years of education and experience, then they are published and reviewed year after year by scholars and experts who provide critical review. Context is just one small element in exegesis which is why people deceive themselves if they think they can interpret scripture without spending the hours and years required to gain the expertise to do it correctly.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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We are all in the same Body of Christ. Judaizers are Christians who teach it is necessary to adopt Jewish customs and practices. Its all the same thing, the Gospel of error.

But in THIS CASE, they were converted pagans...that is what we are discussing. Do you think Jews and Pagans were the same?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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OK so lets look at the days, months and seasons...

Lent - Christmas - Sabbath - Easter - Passover - etc...

Did Paul have these in the gun?

There was no Christmas during Paul's lifetime...and he and others did keep Pesakh...

1 Corinthians 5:8
 
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Carl Emerson

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There was no Christmas during Paul's lifetime...and he and others did keep Pesakh...

1 Corinthians 5:8

I think the reference to feast if you read the whole passage is not passover but a reference symbolically of the fellowship. I could be wrong but that is how it reads to me. As there are no other references to early believers keeping passover, I think you are drawing a long bow.

1 Cor 5:
1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and sexual immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, namely, that someone has his father’s wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to turn such a person over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let’s celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I think the reference to feast if you read the whole passage is not passover but a reference symbolically of the fellowship. I could be wrong but that is how it reads to me. As there are no other references to early believers keeping passover, I think you are drawing a long bow.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let’s celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I am not sure why you would think that. A feast and unleavened can only mean one thing. Otherwise he would have no need to even mention unleavened with feast or vice versa. What feast would he be speaking of if not Pesakh? Also, yes, there is much evidence of Pesakh observance in the early church! The whole Quatrodeciman thing as well as my own 2000 year old church still using the term Pascha (Passover) even unto this day!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The people who write commentaries are not just someone expressing an opinion, they are scholars who have spent years and years going to school and reviewing the scriptures then they write their exegesis which is then reviewed by other scholars who have years and years of education and experience, then they are published and reviewed year after year by scholars and experts who provide critical review. Context is just one small element in exegesis which is why people deceive themselves if they think they can interpret scripture without spending the hours and years required to gain the expertise to do it correctly.
Sure commentaries are people that express their opinions. That is why the majority of scholars do not agree among themselves. You will not find God's truth from scholars. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. We can only find God's truth as we seek Jesus to be our guide and teacher and seek him through his Word. It was the so called scholars in the says of Jesus that crucified him. What makes you think it is going to be any different today?
 
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Soyeong

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Having reads the whole of Galatians I think that it is unlikely that Paul is simply talking of them going back to their gentile roots because he keeps tying this conversation back to the Law, and in particular, Paul's bugbear: circumcision.

Galatians 4:8-11 is a prime example of how people have systematically taken things that were only said against obeying man as being against obeying God, which is extended to the whole book of Galatians. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against that requirement, and a ruling against requiring a man-made requirement that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

CHrist is Lord of all so let us trust in him only.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, so obedience to it is what it looks like to trust him only.
 
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klutedavid

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I am not sure why you would think that. A feast and unleavened can only mean one thing. Otherwise he would have no need to even mention unleavened with feast or vice versa. What feast would he be speaking of if not Pesakh? Also, yes, there is much evidence of Pesakh observance in the early church! The whole Quatrodeciman thing as well as my own 2000 year old church still using the term Pascha (Passover) even unto this day!
Did someone mention unleavened bread?

The Old Testament is all about the future messiah. The unleavened bread and the Passover are prophetical of the Christ, the bread from heaven.

John 6:50-71
This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

The fulfillment of the Passover (blood of the lamb) and the meaning of the unleavened bread is painfully obvious.

Celebrate Jesus Christ.
 
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klutedavid

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Galatians 4:8-11 is a prime example of how people have systematically taken things that were only said against obeying man as being against obeying God, which is extended to the whole book of Galatians. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against that requirement, and a ruling against requiring a man-made requirement that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.



In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, so obedience to it is what it looks like to trust him only.
The council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) was discussing a bit more than just circumcision. Here read it yourself.

Galatians 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”

The apostles were addressing whether the Gentiles had to obey the law of Moses.

Anyone who claims that Acts 15 is only addressing circumcision has not read the text.
 
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coffee4u

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Gal 4:

10
You observe days and months and seasons and years.

11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

What was Paul referring to, and are we still in danger of doing this today?

Well I don't believe in taking a verse or two in isolation without at least reading the verses around it. since that can draw incorrect conclusions.

8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Verse 9 says they are turning back to what they had been doing. False brethren/ teachers were leading them astray it says in Galatians 2:4
4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)


They wanted to return to the law
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

The Galatians were a strange mix of both the Jewish law and Celtic paganism. So it's possible the laws they wanted to keep were Jewish laws but were 'flavourd' with paganism.

Many people seem to want to be under law today. Perhaps they feel God's Grace is too simplistic or too easy and that they must do more to strive for God's forgiveness so they add laws to keep as if God's Grace would fall of them otherwise.
 
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Soyeong

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Carl, any church who fits the bill of preaching another gospel but the same ( or looks the same but really is not). Galatians and 2 Corinthians is rich with these warnings. We even see it in the Gospels ( synoptic) Jesus speaking. Mark 7:9 . We have to be weary of another spirit in the churches ( any church), actually evil spirit in reality. We see it ( the warning) in the book of Acts. Bottom line: a false gospel.

In Mark 7:9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so it is important to distinguish between the two, but then you interpret what was only said against obeying the traditions of men as being against obeying laws that are the commands of God.

Grace is also no longer grace if you are going to observe the old customs for salvation. Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

We do not earn our salvation by obeying God's law because it was never given for that purpose, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't obey it for the purposes for which it was given. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Jesus began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us from doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ.

Furthermore, in Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and it would be absurd to think that David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. Likewise, in Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, but we have not received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace in order do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation, and participating in that training does nothing to earn it, but rather that is what it looks like to receive it. And again, it would be absurd to think that our salvation involves being trained by grace to fall from grace.

Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to obey God's law in accordance with Christ's example as if following Christ was somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become saved.

And Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Grace is a free gift, which is incompatible with doing works done to earn something, as Romans 11:6 is contrasting, however, works can be done for other reasons that are not incompatible with grace. For example, in James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and he would show his faith by his works, so doing works in obedience to God is what faith looks like, not about trying to earn something. Or the content of a free gift can itself be being taught how to do something, such as being taught how to play an instrument as a free gift from a profession musician, and so being taught how to obey God's law is itself part of the content of God's free gift of salvation. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what it looks like to receive the free gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Did someone mention unleavened bread?

The Old Testament is all about the future messiah. The unleavened bread and the Passover are prophetical of the Christ, the bread from heaven.

John 6:50-71
This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

The fulfillment of the Passover (blood of the lamb) and the meaning of the unleavened bread is painfully obvious.

Celebrate Jesus Christ.

Um, OK. What does this have to do with my post?
 
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