Only two covenants are presented in the New Testament

[Guojing]

That verse has nothing to do with separate plans of salvation for Jews and Gentiles and the church. Is that your takeaway from that verse? If so, that isn't even close to what that verse means.

That verse is simply referring to unbelieving Jews, unbelieving Gentiles and the church, which consists of believing Jews and Gentiles. That verse does not support your doctrine whatsoever. There is one gospel, one plan of salvation for all people whether Jew or Gentile. Scripture is very clear about that.

No one is saying anything about separate plans of salvation now.

God sees 3 groups of people now

Unbelieving Jews
Unbelieving Gentiles
Body of Christ where Jews and gentiles are equal

So there is a separation between the 1st 2, you just don't want to acknowledge it

 

[Timtofly]

The words "Israel" and "stumble" appear nowhere in connection with Ironside's commentary for Luke 23:34 in his Luke 23 commentary.

Nor does Ironside claim that Israel will be saved anywhere in his Luke 23 commentary.

If you disagree, then copy/paste the evidence.

It's not plagiarism if you're not claiming authorship.

So don't.

I guess you missed it both times you read it: "rejected by those whom He had not only brought into being (Israel) but also came to bless and to save."

 

[jgr]

I guess you missed it both times you read it: "rejected by those whom He had not only brought into being (Israel) but also came to bless and to save."

Scroll up half a window. Here's what you'll see:

"Verses 44-56"

Not verse 34.

Guess you missed it every time.

Better make an appointment with your optometrist.

Not only did you miss it.

You're also seeing what isn't there i.e. "(Israel)"

AKA interpretation by hallucination.

Better waste no time making that appointment.

 

[Timtofly]

Scroll up half a window. Here's what you'll see:

"Verses 44-56"

Not verse 34.

Guess you missed it every time.

Better make an appointment with your optometrist.

Not only did you miss it.

You're also seeing what isn't there i.e. "(Israel)"

AKA interpretation by hallucination.

Better waste no time making that appointment.

You are too nitpicking. You really do not want Jesus to forgive Israel. See what I get for helping you dig into human theology. I will stop trying to be friendly with your panderings. Now you claim to know the mind of Ironside on what he was thinking the day he was writing. How many times does the chapter mention Jesus forgave them? Would Jesus bless and save without forgiveness?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No one is saying anything about separate plans of salvation now.

God sees 3 groups of people now

Unbelieving Jews
Unbelieving Gentiles
Body of Christ where Jews and gentiles are equal

So there is a separation between the 1st 2, you just don't want to acknowledge it

No, God sees 2 groups when it comes to salvation, if you would be willing to acknowledge it. Jesus spelled that out clearly when He said this:

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Everyone is either with Him (saved) or against Him (lost). That's why there are 2 possible eternal destinies for people, not 3. Your 3-group theory of how God looks at people is not taught in scripture.

 

[keras]

You are too nitpicking. You really do not want Jesus to forgive Israel. See what I get for helping you dig into human theology. I will stop trying to be friendly with your panderings. Now you claim to know the mind of Ironside on what he was thinking the day he was writing. How many times does the chapter mention Jesus forgave them? Would Jesus bless and save without forgiveness?

Luke 19:27 says exactly what the Lord will do to those who hate Him.

Many other prophesies tell of the virtual demise of Judah. Isaiah 6:11-13, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Romans 9:27, +
The whole idea of a Jewish redemption is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Neither will happen.

 

[Timtofly]

Luke 19:27 says exactly what the Lord will do to those who hate Him.

Many other prophesies tell of the virtual demise of Judah. Isaiah 6:11-13, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Romans 9:27, +
The whole idea of a Jewish redemption is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Neither will happen.

Ezekiel 37 comes after Ezekiel 21.

 

[Guojing]

Your 3-group theory of how God looks at people is not taught in scripture.

I just used scripture.

 

[keras]

Ezekiel 37 comes after Ezekiel 21.

A holy seed [of Judah] will remain. Isaiah 6:13
A remnant [of the Jews] will survive. Romans 9:27
A few in Jerusalem will hide underground. Isaiah 29:1-4

Must be at least 24,000, that is 2/12ths of the 144,000 for Judah and Benjamin. The rest will die for their sins. Isaiah 22:14, Luke 19:27

I just used scripture.

Belief in 3 groups; the apostate Jews and gentiles - the Christian Jews and the Christian Gentiles, is wrong and not scriptural at all.
There is only ONE people of God and all the rest are godless heathen. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, Galatians 3:26-29

As I show in #326, the Jews face Judgment/punishment and only a few will survive. There is no redemption for those who reject Jesus.

 

[Guojing]

Belief in 3 groups; the apostate Jews and gentiles - the Christian Jews and the Christian Gentiles, is wrong and not scriptural at all.

I have just used 1 Corinthians 10:32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Look, if you don't want to agree with scripture, that is your choice and I am fine with that.

But to say it is "not scriptural at all" is false.

 

[keras]

I have just used 1 Corinthians 10:32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Look, if you don't want to agree with scripture, that is your choice and I am fine with that.

But to say it is "not scriptural at all" is false.

You missed out Eskimos, they are a people group too!
The salient point is; There is only ONE people of God, the born again Christian believers, the rest are the godless heathen. Race, nationality, location, etc doesn't come into it.

What you can't seem to realize, is there is coming a terrible Judgment/ punishment upon all the peoples in the Middle East. God WILL clear and cleanse His holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Zephaniah 1:1-18, Romans 1:18, +

 

[Guojing]

You missed out Eskimos, they are a people group too!
The salient point is; There is only ONE people of God, the born again Christian believers, the rest are the godless heathen. Race, nationality, location, etc doesn't come into it.

What you can't seem to realize, is there is coming a terrible Judgment/ punishment upon all the peoples in the Middle East. God WILL clear and cleanse His holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Zephaniah 1:1-18, Romans 1:18, +

True there is one Body of Christ now, no one is denying that.

But there are Jews and Gentiles among the unbelieving, as that scripture indicated.

 

[jgr]

You are too nitpicking. You really do not want Jesus to forgive Israel. See what I get for helping you dig into human theology. I will stop trying to be friendly with your panderings. Now you claim to know the mind of Ironside on what he was thinking the day he was writing. How many times does the chapter mention Jesus forgave them? Would Jesus bless and save without forgiveness?

You'll notice that Bro. Ironside said nothing about Israel or stumbling in his commentary on verse 34.

You need to exhume and chastise him for nitpicking.

 

[keras]

True there is one Body of Christ now, no one is denying that.

But there are Jews and Gentiles among the unbelieving, as that scripture indicated.

Nowhere does the Bible say all the Jews will be redeemed.
Only a remnant will be saved, those who have accepted Jesus now.

 

[Guojing]

Nowhere does the Bible say all the Jews will be redeemed.
Only a remnant will be saved, those who have accepted Jesus now.

Never said that.

 

[keras]

Never said that.

But you promote a national Jewish redemption.
When Zephaniah 1:1-18 happens, the Jewish State of Israel will be gone.
The Lord will make a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the [holy] land. verse 18b
Jeremiah 12:14 and Ezekiel 21:1-8, also say the Jews will be uprooted from the holy land.

Then the faithful Christians will migrate there. Psalms 107

 

[Guojing]

But you promote a national Jewish redemption.
When Zephaniah 1:1-18 happens, the Jewish State of Israel will be gone.
The Lord will make a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the [holy] land. verse 18b
Jeremiah 12:14 and Ezekiel 21:1-8, also say the Jews will be uprooted from the holy land.

Then the faithful Christians will migrate there. Psalms 107

What I stated was "But there are Jews and Gentiles among the unbelieving, as that scripture indicated."

 

[BABerean2]

Look, if you don't want to agree with scripture, that is your choice and I am fine with that.

The same is true of the word "now" found in Hebrews 8:6, which proves the New Covenant is "now" in effect.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

------------------------------------------------------

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I just used scripture.

Inaccurately. Why don't you just accept what Jesus said instead of taking other scripture out of context. He very clearly said that those who are not with Him are against Him. Two groups. Saved and lost. Very simple.

 

[Timtofly]

Belief in 3 groups; the apostate Jews and gentiles - the Christian Jews and the Christian Gentiles, is wrong and not scriptural at all.
There is only ONE people of God and all the rest are godless heathen. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, Galatians 3:26-29

When it comes to the church, yes. When it comes to this physical earth there was still the nation of Israel no matter how wicked they became. Which was consistently the whole of their existence. The original brothers hated Joseph, and got rid of him. They made a golden calf in God's presence and worshipped it. They continously turned away from those of the church that tried to set an example. The physical Israel makes up the dry bones. Dry bones are not the church. Dry bones are Not the Gentiles. Dry bones are this third group, that some just see as non-existent physical flesh.

Dry bones are not former dead people. Dry bones are symbolic of wayward physical living Israel.